Need help sorting out an issue with party members over charging in


Advice


So in our party of mostly 14 to 15th level characters we have an issue where the fighter and magus charge in while the pure cleric and my mystic theruge stay behind to cast. Usually the fighter (a two handed dwarf) hits so hard most things are not that big a challenges.

However the GM is ramping things up and we're fasting more and more casters, sometimes multiple casters with artifacts. I'm able to counter quite a bit and knock them out however I'm getting sucked into a role where the pure healer isn't healing well and we're getting very close to TPK.

For example in one fight when I had a very nice spell lined up for a demon/undead thing due to some bone head moves the fighter was dropped to dying, the magus was paralyzed and cleric (with no quicken..)wasted his turn doing something pointless. I had to burn my turn quicken Heal, then use spell synergy to pull out a remove paralysis/heal on the magus then throw up an emergency force sphere to keep from being splattered. Instead of a thank you for pulling out a record high four spells in the round (one quickened, two SS, one immediate towards next rounds swift) I was threatened like dirt for suggesting we be a little more careful next time.

Only reason I have just up and left their collective arses in combat is I'm CG (there CN) and the quest is for my god so i don't want to appear cowardly for RP sake there. Advice?

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

You could let them die. You can Raise Dead or Resurrect them fairly easily at your level.


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^ this.

Let them die. Get out of the situation. Raise them later. Make them pay for the reagents.

Call it stupidity tax. If they learn they can stop paying it.


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Either discuss tactics with them, or stop complaining that their tactics aren't "waiting for me to do my cool thing"

It sounds like that near death fighter did a great job making sure he was getting attacked instead of you. It might make him sound like an idiot, but he might feel like that is his primary role, getting dropped into the meat-grinder so the casters are free to spend the first several rounds of a fights 'staying behind to cast'.


Being money is not really an issue and theres no longer any perm penalty for dying not sure this would be enough. I thought about flesh to stoning them for awhile to "teach them a lesson in patience" but not sure thats a good thing, even if I dont leave them for very long. Been thinking about creating a demiplane and being more reclusive, assisting on missions but slowly backing away from why my character would see as foolish people.


Talk to them, away from the table, about the behavior and how you dont like the role it puts you in. Ask them if they could consider a little more caution in their tactics so you could get to have a little more fun in combat. Then stop preping most of your healing spells


Buff them before they charge in so they don't die and let them do some cool stuff while you provide support from the rear?


Adamantine Dragon wrote:
Buff them before they charge in so they don't die and let them do some cool stuff while you provide support from the rear?

Sometimes theres no time to buff or they charge in without discussing tactics or will pick a dumb tactics over another better option. F

or example we had to face four wizards at once. Rather than setting up a trap to face them on our terms with several nasty summons in play (my idea) their idea was to talk an evil dracolich into letting us kill him (because he was trapped, would return to his goodie).

I made the case that while trapped an chaotic evil intelligent undead that can live forever might well rather sit for a couple thousand years more than let himself be willingly killed but a party for the sake of being released. Yet that was seen as naively stupid of me to suggest. :\

While these equally are experienced players I find they are great min/maxers but lack alot in group tactics, understanding of evil, and any realm of foresight. I like the guys but ya know you might want to listen to the insanely smart guy in the robe when he speaks up. Maybe I should just let them get sacrificed for the great good, escape, then not res them to make a point to force a reroll.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The best option: talk to the players.

The second-best option: have your character talk to their characters.

The third-best option: examine your character sheet and count up how much diamond you are actually currently carrying, because gold itself is useless for raise/resurrection. Then warn them about the number of times you can actually bring them back.

The don't do it option: behave in a petulant, passive-aggressive or spiteful way.


Your party's tactics is not your primary problem.

"Instead of a thank you for pulling out a record high four spells in the round (one quickened, two SS, one immediate towards next rounds swift) I was threatened like dirt for suggesting we be a little more careful next time." [Emphasis mine]

That is your problem. Fix that, and tactics won't be an issue. I'd suggest talking to them and telling them that you do not take kindly to being threatened and being willing to find another game if they won't let up.

Note that I am assuming you were nice about it. Statistically speaking--sorry, I don't know you--you corrected them like a jerk. In which case you need to come in, apologize for your misspeaking, explain your frustration, and go from there.

Either way, focus your efforts there.


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I can't help but point out that we are hearing only one side of this, and I have generally found that when someone presents their side of things with such negative commentary about the people on the other side....

... well, that's when I really want to hear the other side.

This does not sound like a game issue. It sounds like a mutual respect issue. Work on the mutual respect and I think the "game issue" will probably solve itself.


Grayfeather wrote:
(one quickened, two SS, one immediate towards next rounds swift)

The overlying issue aside, I just wanted to point out one very quick thing regarding to rules: If you cast an immediate action spell on your turn, then it counts as that turn's swift action (instead of next turn's swift action). So you can't cast both a quickened spell and an immediate spell on the same turn.


Let them die, and go find some devout followers of your deity to help you complete your quest.


Are wrote:
Grayfeather wrote:
(one quickened, two SS, one immediate towards next rounds swift)

The overlying issue aside, I just wanted to point out one very quick thing regarding to rules: If you cast an immediate action spell on your turn, then it counts as that turn's swift action (instead of next turn's swift action). So you can't cast both a quickened spell and an immediate spell on the same turn.

Where does it say that in the rules? I've never seen that before. I always assumed the Swift/Immediate action rules were universal.

Also, chalk me up as another in the "Let 'em die" camp. You can't fix stupid.


Rynjin wrote:
Where does it say that in the rules? I've never seen that before. I always assumed the Swift/Immediate action rules were universal.

In the Combat section:

PRD wrote:

Immediate Actions

Much like a swift action, an immediate action consumes a very small amount of time but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. However, unlike a swift action, an immediate action can be performed at any time—even if it's not your turn. Casting feather fall is an immediate action, since the spell can be cast at any time.

Using an immediate action on your turn is the same as using a swift action and counts as your swift action for that turn. You cannot use another immediate action or a swift action until after your next turn if you have used an immediate action when it is not currently your turn (effectively, using an immediate action before your turn is equivalent to using your swift action for the coming turn). You also cannot use an immediate action if you are flat-footed.


Oh, he used the Immediate action ON HIS TURN. I see. I missed that part.


I don't know if he actually did, but the way he wrote it was ambiguous enough that I wanted to clarify (in case he did, and in case others thought it was possible to do that) :)


@ OP: It seems like the party's having a lot of fun. Chaotic Neutral? Clerics who waste their turns? Seems like a party.

But you're not having fun, it'd seem... So I say do what you want. Maybe make your Chaotic Good into Chaotic "for the Greater Good?" Or realize that some warriors want to die in battle, and that you can't help that. Maybe even make your character envy your fool-hardy companions, but realize that he doesn't have the same luxury, because he has a mission to do for his god (What's that Robert Frost poem?).

But you have to find a way to have fun without taking away your party's fun. And the fact is that your GM will give you the wiggle room to do it. I.e. those 4 spells in a round? I don't know if it was legal or not, but I guarantee your GM would have let you do it regardless, given the moment.

So if you want to do what you feel like once in a while, instead of what your party implicitly demands of you, go for it. I think the company you keep during the game is more important than the game itself.


They play their way, you play yours. Talk with them away from the game, if that doesn't do anything, your char says to theirs "You know, I think we're going about this all wrong, and the glorious deity can't afford to let this mission fail, I will do what they require of me, not what you command".

Then, if they still ignore your input, your PC gave them a warning that they were expendable. When the fighter is unconcious, bleeding out 1 round away from a battleaxe to the face killing him outright, your Character surveys the scene and monologues

"I could cast X,y, and z protecting the fighter, stabilizing him and getting him on his feet to fight another day, or I could cast A, B, and C to remove the threat this demon poses to the world. Sorry my companion, but sacrifices are needed in times of crisis. I cast A,B,C."

You tried talking calmly and constructivel to the player, you appealed to the character's senses, and when that failed, you played your character as they would behave.

Of course, it sounds like you guys have interpersonal issues beyond playstyle, which may or may not be a good place to start.

Sovereign Court

So "make a mistake" or "be careless" yourself. Next time it comes down to you to save them at the last moment, pretend you haven't noticed just how close. Do something else and then go "huh? you were THAT close to death? I was going to heal you next turn..." or "oh.. but I can't get close enough to you and do all those things..."

Let them fail.

This sounds like one of those games where player 1 does something, and unless one of players 2...N do something, player 1 wins. But player 2 says "I'm not doing it... let player 3 ... N deal with the problem". So everyone can take the guys down the line hostage. But if it comes down to player N and he doesn't (can't, forgets, doesn't want to) do it, everyone loses.

Teammates don't hold teammates hostage.

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