Perception check / Detect Magic scan slowing movement


Rules Questions

Shadow Lodge

If you have a rogue doing a perception check and a caster doing detect magic scan how slow is your party moving?


Jacob Saltband wrote:
If you have a rogue doing a perception check and a caster doing detect magic scan how slow is your party moving?

30 feet per round if they spend one action detect/scanning and the other moving.


At the speed of their slowest member. So 20ft/round (200 ft/minute) if they have a dwarf or someone in medium or heavy armor with them, or 30ft/round (300ft/minute) if not. Typical walking speed. (Jogging is represented by doing a double move.)

Grand Lodge

Those characters take a single move each round. The caster also has to be first in the marching order if any other party member has magic items or active spells. The rogue will take distance penalties if she is not second (if using Trap Spotter, she needs to be within 10 feet).


Starglim wrote:
The caster also has to be first in the marching order if any other party member has magic items or active spells.

Source?

There is nothing in Detect Magic's description about one aura blocking line of sight to another. In fact, the text says that after 2 rounds, you know the location of EVERY aura in the 60 ft cone. Now, if someone is carrying around 'Vecna's left foot's pinky toenail' or under the effect of a 15th level heightened spell of Magic Aura, sure. There's a reason one aura might overpower the spellworm's detect magic. However, those are exceptional and not the RAW.

Besides, characters only occasionally offer soft cover, not concealment. When the rogue is examining the wall to see if there's a trap there, the wizard can just look past him.


yea, but the rogue will keep pinging on the detect magic radar. In another forum, had an idea of taking a bag of coins and presto'ing them different colors and leaving a trail of magic...

which leads me to a question.
What aura would they have?


Marphod wrote:
Starglim wrote:
The caster also has to be first in the marching order if any other party member has magic items or active spells.

Source?

There is nothing in Detect Magic's description about one aura blocking line of sight to another.

It doesn't block it, but the party member would register as the presence of magical auras.

Example:

Rogue moves up, checks for traps.

Caster moves up behind rogue, concentrates to maintain the spell, and detects the presence of magical auras.

So you then either spend 3 rounds waiting for the caster to determine the strength and location of each aura, or you just have the rogue stay out of the cone.

IejirIsk wrote:

In another forum, had an idea of taking a bag of coins and presto'ing them different colors and leaving a trail of magic...

which leads me to a question.
What aura would they have?

School: "A small number of spells (arcane mark, limited wish, permanency, prestidigitation, and wish) are universal, belonging to no school."

So as a functioning 0-level spell, it would have a Faint aura.

A DC 15 Knowledge (arcana) skill check (as part of the 3rd round of detect magic) would determine that there is no school of magic involved in that aura.

A separate DC 20 Knowledge (arcana) skill check could determine that it's the effects of a prestidigitation. (Using the skill to "Identify a spell effect that is in place")


ah, thank ya. would assume magey would cast first, then rogue move up, mage/party move up, magey cast...

seems like best way to move up slowly.


Grick wrote:


Caster moves up behind rogue, concentrates to maintain the spell, and detects the presence of magical auras.

So you then either spend 3 rounds waiting for the caster to determine the strength and location of each aura, or you just have the rogue stay out of the cone.

Or you cast Mask Dweomer on the Rogue's items/spells. Or you wait a second round to get number of auras, and if the number isn't expected, go for the third round. Or coat the Rogue and her stuff in a thin layer of lead. Or you have the rogue duck OUT OF YOUR LINE OF SIGHT when concentrating. Besides, unless you're moving quickly, the range on Detect Magic is 60 feet; the rogue can only cover 60 feet every two rounds.

If you need it strictly broken down by rounds:
1st round:
Rogue moves 30', searching for traps.
Wizard moves 30', Wizard Casts DM or concentrates (1st round; presence)

2nd:
Rogue delays;
Wizard concentrates (2nd round, number of auras), readies an action to follow the rogue 30'.
Rogue moves 30'; searching for traps.
Wizard follows 30'.

Rinse, lather, repeat.

Shadow Lodge

Is this happening in combat?

If not, how long it takes is pretty inconsequential - at most, maybe 30 seconds for the whole thing to take place (and really, closer to 18 seconds).

If it is in combat, that's another bag of chips.


Avatar-1 wrote:

Is this happening in combat?

If not, how long it takes is pretty inconsequential - at most, maybe 30 seconds for the whole thing to take place (and really, closer to 18 seconds).

If it is in combat, that's another bag of chips.

Well yes and no ... it'll be campaign/adventure dependent. In other words if you have till sundown to return with the cure or stop the sacrifice or whatever then how long your are taking could certainly be very much an issue. And cutting movement in half or more is not a small reduction.


Note that if you're moving your speed and performing another move or standard action in the same round, you're hustling. After an hour of doing that in between sleep cycles, PCs will start taking nonlethal damage.


Actually, this is pretty important in regards to whether the party can slather on a full array of minute per level combat spells and hit all the encounters in one go, or if they need to conserve resources because they want to avoid barreling headlong into every trap and ambush.

Normally, you can use Perception to search as a Move action. A spellcaster can Concentrate on detect magic as a Standard action. So both party members are moving with single Move actions instead of perhaps two.

Further, whenever you use detect magic to scan a new area, the first round always tells you that there is a presence or an absence of magic. Such a creature only moves as fast as half speed if there is no aura in his cone and he can safely proceed -- if he's behind a party member with magical effects, or if the dungeon has ambient magical effects, then every first round of detect magic will tell him that there is a presence of magic, and he must spend additional rounds concentrating on the area to tell if it's just an effect he already knew about, or a new one.

The logical gap here is that Perception doesn't really say how large an area you're searching when you declare you're using Perception. 3.0 said that you could Search a 10x10 area in one minute; this actually made just a 30x30x10 room take a very long time, since there's 9 tiles on the floor, 9 on the ceiling, and 12 on the walls -- or 30 minutes to search.

In Pathfinder, perhaps it's possible to search an area completely visually -- you just stand in the middle of a room, spend a Move action and roll to search, and apply distance penalties from where you're standing to the location of any hidden creatures or details. In this case, a party could very well slather on their minute/level spells and blow through most or all of a dungeon. Holding discussions would probably take up more time than searching would.

GMs that feel like this coddles players can alternate their hidden features. Since it's a visual scan, it can only pick up visual clues; players can't justify scanning visually and seeing objects in the bottom of a murky pool, or smelling cologne on a shirt in the corner, or feeling a change in the texture of the wall.


Troubleshooter wrote:
Further, whenever you use detect magic to scan a new area, the first round always tells you that there is a presence or an absence of magic. Such a creature only moves as fast as half speed if there is no aura in his cone and he can safely proceed -- if he's behind a party member with magical effects, or if the dungeon has ambient magical effects, then every first round of detect magic will tell him that there is a presence of magic, and he must spend additional rounds concentrating on the area to tell if it's just an effect he already knew about, or a new one.

Even worse, if someone has an active spell effect, they're leaving a dim aura behind them for rounds/minutes/days depending on the spell level.

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