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I'm a GM and one of my players (an Alchemist) asked me a question. If his Tumor Familiar is fused to him and he drinks his invisibility extract, does the Tumor Familiar turn invisible too? Or does it just appear to hang lamely in the air while the alchemist is invisible. My gut tells me yes and I've made other inquiries to back it up but I wanted other opinions.
But here's the broken part:
This player came back next week and asked, if a character has an Imp Tumor Familiar (by virtue of the Tumor Familiar Discovery and the Improved Familiar Feat) and it is attached to him, can the Imp cast its At-Will invisibility and make itself and the Alchemist invisible.
While this won't ruin the campaign (a surprising number of monsters have see invisibility) I would like to find out whether this is actually possible because it could get inconvenient to have the party Rogue multiclass alchemist for invisibility whenever he wants.
I'm a GM and one of my players (an Alchemist) asked me a question. If his Tumor Familiar is fused to him and he drinks his invisibility extract, does the Tumor Familiar turn invisible too?
Tumor Familiar (Ex): "The alchemist creates a Diminutive or Tiny tumor on his body, usually on his back or stomach. As a standard action, the alchemist can have the tumor detach itself from his body as a separate creature vaguely resembling a kind of animal suitable for a familiar (bat, cat, and so on) and move about as if it were an independent creature. The tumor can reattach itself to the alchemist as a standard action."
Seems like, while attached, it's not a separate creature. So it would turn invisible.
Only after the alchemist spends a standard action having the tumor detach does it become a separate creature.
[while] it is attached to him, can the Imp cast its At-Will invisibility and make itself and the Alchemist invisible.
"The tumor acts as the alchemist's familiar whether attached or separated (providing a skill bonus, the Alertness feat, and so on)."
I don't think "and so on" includes taking independent actions, since it's not yet considered a separate creature.
Really good question, I think I would rule it that the sharing is a one way street in a home game, but I don't think my opinion is supported by the rules.
The tumor familiar would be part of the Alchemist and invisible while attached. It would be visible while detached.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor
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It's a giant... tumor when it's attached thus it is invisible when the alchemist is invisible, etc. I'm not sure the familiar can take independent actions when attached, it's not entirely clear.
Once separated, it's no longer part of the alchemist and would appear.
It's a giant... tumor when it's attached thus it is invisible when the alchemist is invisible, etc. I'm not sure the familiar can take independent actions when attached, it's not entirely clear.
I'm almost certain the only thing it can do is detach.
I'm not 100% sure i would allow the char to take improved familiar in conjunction with tumor familiar. I can cite rules like "act as if doesn't mean is" and blah blah.
I thought the same thing, but SKR says here that it counts as a familiar. (In response to a question about qualifying for Evolved Familiar, but it should still apply to Improved, I think.)
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They're all 10th level so like a said its not a big deal. The alchemist just got the greater invisibility extract anyway. He's just looking for a way to save his standard actions in combat. Being a self-buffing class, his first couple of rounds of combat are always mutagen, shield, barkskin, etc.
Anyway it looks as if this all hinges on whether the Tumor gets standard actions while fused. Which depends on the GM's interpretation of the tumor "acts as if he were the alchemist's familiar while attached or fused". Do traditional familiars get their standard/move/swift actions while in the alchemist's square? (Eg. In master's backpack or perched on his shoulder)
Do traditional familiars get their standard/move/swift actions while in the alchemist's square?
Do you mean tumor familiars, or regular animal familiars?
A normal (non-tumor) imp familiar could use its Spell-Like Abilities while sharing a square with its master. But since its invisibility is self only, it can't use that ability to make the master invisible.
As a standard action, the alchemist can have the tumor detach itself from his body as a separate creature vaguely resembling a kind of animal suitable for a familiar (bat, cat, and so on) and move about as if it were an independent creature. The tumor can reattach itself to the alchemist as a standard action. The tumor has all the abilities of the animal it resembles (for example, a batlike tumor can fly) and familiar abilities based on the alchemist’s caster level (though some familiar abilities may be useless to an alchemist). The tumor acts as the alchemist’s familiar whether attached or separated (providing a skill bonus, the Alertness feat, and so on)
When the tumor is attached it's a tumor.
It doesn't become shaped, gain the ability to move about as an independent creature, or have all the abilities of the familiar it resembles until it detaches. Because until it detaches, it doesn't resemble that familiar.
It only acts as the alchemists familiar while attached in the sense that it provides the passive familiar bonuses "providing a skill bonus, the Alertness feat, and so on)"
When the tumor is attached it's a tumor.
It doesn't become shaped, gain the ability to move about as an independent creature, or have all the abilities of the familiar it resembles until it detaches. Because until it detaches, it doesn't resemble that familiar.
It only acts as the alchemists familiar while attached in the sense that it provides the passive familiar bonuses "providing a skill bonus, the Alertness feat, and so on)"
That would have made sense, if it weren't for the "Die For Your Master" discovery, which states that an attached Tumor Familiar takes actions, makes saving throws, has an AC (including a Dexterity bonus) and possesses an awareness of its (master's) surroundings.
That would have made sense, if it weren't for the "Die For Your Master" discovery, which states that an attached Tumor Familiar takes actions, makes saving throws, has an AC (including a Dexterity bonus) and possesses an awareness of its (master's) surroundings.When the tumor is attached it's a tumor.
It doesn't become shaped, gain the ability to move about as an independent creature, or have all the abilities of the familiar it resembles until it detaches. Because until it detaches, it doesn't resemble that familiar.
It only acts as the alchemists familiar while attached in the sense that it provides the passive familiar bonuses "providing a skill bonus, the Alertness feat, and so on)"
The discovery doesn't state that it can normally move about as an independent creature, or have all the abilities of the familiar it resembles until it detaches.
The discovery gives it the ability to take the immediate action of throwing itself in the way of the attack.
Without the discovery, the tumor only has the ability to detach as as standard action.
With the discovery, the tumor can also take a specific immediate action.
It still has the stats for a familiar of it's type and level, but it only gets the stated abilities and movement of a non-tumor (aka any except the discovery) until it detaches.
It doesn't really matter since, by the rules, you can't apply Improved Familiar to an Alchemist since an alchemist has no arcane caster level. They have a caster level, but not an arcane one, so they can't grab that imp as a familiar.
If you allowed this to happen, you're DM fiat-ing, so you can further fiat that, the tumor has share spell to the alchemist, but the alchemist does not have share spell to the tumor's SLAs.