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The D20 Conan RPG had him up to level 20 I believe. It was in one of the books, I'll have to go find it again.
I remember he was a Barbarian (although the barbarians in that d20 were more versatile and less rage driven), Pirate (he was on ships quite often), and Rogue.
Skills are still an issue, just for raw number of skills. It's not a matter of the +3 bonus for the skill being a class skill, it's a matter of having enough skill points without having to put an incredible score in Intelligence.
He's got Stealth, Climb, Swim, Survival Perception, at an absolute minimum. At least some investment in Acrobatics, Ride, Linguistics, and at least one or two Knowledges (unless he can get a Lore feature sensibly). Likely knowledges are nature, geography, history, and local.
Barbarian I lean against because the PF barbarian is all about rage, and Conan is not about rage; mostly he's just that strong and that good; most of the mentions of primal, animal nature, are more in the sense of his personality than a wild rage he flies into. Ranger, however, is still suited to wilderness, has 6+Int skill points per level, and seems to work quite nicely.
Maybe. I still don't see anything particularly Rangerish about Conan, and I know he wouldn't cast spells.
So far, I can see either Fighter or Ranger, and possibly a few levels in Rogue. I know Fighter has some special feats for screwing up spellcasters, which is why I am leaning toward that class.
Also, we really have to determine what Conan's stats are, before we get worried about skill points per level.
Piccolo, you keep complaining about ranger spells and animal companions, but until you hit Ranger 4 you don't have either.
It looks like people are suggesting 2-3 levels, so there are no spells or animal companions.
Also, Ranger's don't have to two-weapon fight, they can two-hand fight as a combat style. So.....
What is the problem.......?
As for what is Ranger-ish about Conan, the class skills combined with full base attack contribute to the character. The combat style provides bonus feats, and can be tailored to an appropriate style (like two-handed), and favored enemy (human or animal) can reflect his combat prowess against his most common foes.
How does Ranger NOT mechanically help build Conan?
What about the wild stalker archetype for ranger, would that be a good bridge?
As for fighters, from the very start they are supposed to be capable of using heavy armor, right? Not something the movie really presented as a capability or training for him. Everything he wore could easily be medium.
If I had to guess, I might think a skirmisher/wild stalker ranger, maybe with fighter later on.
I vote some combo of ranger and barbarian for a proper REH Conan.
Rangerwise, get him to at least 2nd level; when I reread all the Howard Conan stories a couple years ago, the thing that struck me was how often he dual wields. But don't let him cast spells! Ever!
--Dave.
TW: @davidnoonan
Only 2-3 levels of Ranger? I thought we were trying to figure out the most likely base class. Now I'm confused.
The main problem with doing a lot of related multiclassing is the really messed up saving throws etc. I could see doing a fighter/rogue mix, since the saves are different, but I wouldn't want to put tons of levels into both classes, just one of them if possible.
I like Barbarian for the skills and the lack of armor, but I can't see Conan going into a screaming, frothing rage in the middle of a fight. I have read a little of the comic books, and I have both of the movies, plus I've seen Red Sonja.
Conan dual wields weapons a lot in the books? Really?
What ranger types don't allow for spellcasting?
The Skirmisher and Trapper rangers remove spell casting.
I have seen people discussing both multiclass and single class Conan, but all the builds with Ranger levels only have a couple levels of Ranger, then fill out with something else. Since every seems to peg him somewhere between 5-8 its not many levels to fill in.
I don't see how it "messes up" his saving throws (or what else et cetera is standing for).
If you want a single classed character, for the movie version, I could see just going Fighter. For Arnold-Conan, I think that is sufficient, even if not perfect, with good ranks of Climb, Intimidate, Ride, Survival, and Swim.
But I think the multiclass ideas are to either more accurately capture Conan, or capture the Conan of the comics.
All right, what about the case of a 3rd level Fighter, 3rd level Ranger?
Base saves:Fort 6, reflex 4, Will 2.
What's the problem with that? Well, your base Fortitude save is incredibly high for a 6th level character, while the Will save sucks rocks. It's not as bad as it would have been had we been in 3.5D&D, but it's still there. Having more than one or two classes tends to make one's saving throws progressively odder as time goes on, with one or two of them being very low and one very very high.
That's all.
I shall take a look at the skirmisher ranger archetype. Trapper somehow doesn't seem like Conan, at least by the name.
I could probably simulate the movie Conan by using a straight up Fighter, a bastard sword, and the Highlander trait. Maybe some item to grant him an armor bonus, instead of wearing actual armor.
See, for a while now, I almost thought it was possible to simulate Conan by having a Fighter/Rogue multiclass, and trying to get unarmored AC up as high as possible. The book or comic version would simply be a higher level character, and I could simulate his hatred of magic by giving him the Fighter feats involving screwing up spellcasters.
Gestalt Rules?
Gestalt Rules?
Gestalt Rules!
Ranger FEs are Human, Animal and Outsider (evil). Remember that he is particularly capable of killing all sorts of 'things from beyond'. This would include several 'oozes' and 'vermin' as well. Please note that these represent just about all the FEs possible in Howard's 'game'.
Howard also has a Archetype for Rangers that has no AC or spells.
Ranger doesn't quite work. Conan works alone meaning no animal companion or hunter's bond. Spells are out, Conan was superstitious and hostile towards magic. Conan was never a renown tracker, thus Swift Tracker, Quarry, and Improved Quarry don't fit with him.
Perhaps Barbarian with Superstitious Archetype
Just because you have the option to have an animal companion and the option to cast spells, does not mean that you have to.
conan d-20 from mongoose publishing has the most accurate depiction of conan.
and depending on what time line you set your game in conan could be different levels or at different parts in his life.
of note: the book of stygia has him in his late 30s in age.
barb 14/ thief 1/ soldier 1/ pirate 2
the possible equivilant is:
barb 14/ rogue 1/ fighter 1/ ranger 2
yes robert e howards conan constantly raged.
a few of his most famous rages in his stories include
the frost giants daughter
the death of belit
and red nails.
The Barbarian is modeled after Conan. Acrobatics, trap sense, and uncanny dodge is an homage to his thief past, DR/-, D12 hit die, and martial weapon proficiency display his time as a gladiator, rage and survival for his Cimmerian origins, and indomitable will shows distrust of magic (especially the beguile magics that cloud the mind).
Conan never used sneak attack, he never wore full-plate armor, he never trained himself to kill a favored enemy. He was a reaver, a raider, a thief, a scoundrel, a warrior, and a king. But above all else, he was a Barbarian.
The Barbarian is modeled after Conan. Acrobatics, trap sense, and uncanny dodge is an homage to his thief past, DR/-, D12 hit die, and martial weapon proficiency display his time as a gladiator, rage and survival for his Cimmerian origins, and indomitable will shows distrust of magic (especially the beguile magics that cloud the mind).
Conan never used sneak attack, he never wore full-plate armor, he never trained himself to kill a favored enemy. He was a reaver, a raider, a thief, a scoundrel, a warrior, and a king. But above all else, he was a Barbarian.
Actually he did wear Full Plate Armor...read the later stories when he was King of Aquilonia...he definately wore Full Plate
Conan raged, as in straight up Barbarian? That contradicts what I have heard before.
Yora, if a feature goes unused, 90% of the time players want to get rid of it for something they do use.
Well, if you guys who have read the books can come up with a consensus, I am perfectly willing to figure out all the nitty gritty details when building a character, then posting it here.
Conan:
Gestalt: Ranger(Guide, Skirmisher)/Barbarian.
I have no idea what a gestalt is, and I know it's not in the core Pathfinder rules.
Gestalt is a rule system from Unearthed Arcana for 3.5
It is the easiest way to get his abilities. Also remember that Rage doesn't mean he charges in screaming.
For a barbarian with a lot of skills -- why not start him out as a barbarian and have him multiclass into rogue for the extra skills? The reduced BAB progression is not that much of a problem because you can make him whatever level he needs to be.
Als: Has anyone looked here?
Those stats were written for D&D 3E, so updating them for Pathfinder should not be too difficult.
Als: Has anyone looked here?
Those stats were written for D&D 3E, so updating them for Pathfinder should not be too difficult.
That site was already linked to on the first page by Thanael.
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Conan raged all the time. He would recklessly charge headlong into fights using renewed or untapped strength. I think our conception of rage is warps by the Hulk or other "mindless rager" archetypes. Rage does not make you stupid. It has no mechanical effect on your mental stats other than you can't use INT based skills while raging, i.e. reckless.
In "The God in the Bowl" Conan displays all the signs of rage while fighting the snake god. At the sight of his dying companion, he screams, activates his rage (free action), and charges into the room which the god is hiding. The others warn him against attacking, but he recklessly ignores them (penalty to AC). He was injured from a previous fight, but his anger has renewed his strength and constitution (bonus to STR and CON/ temporary hit points). The god tries to hypnotize him, he overcomes it (bonus to Will).
Yes, he's not the Hulk when he rages, grunting or speaking in broken English. But, really, no barbarian (save the True Primitive or the Wild Rager archetypes, and even they don't suffer penalties to mental stats) should be played that way. I don't know how it started (probably 3E with their Half-Orc Iconic Barbarian and their illiterate ability), but Barbarians aren't mindless juggernauts. They're Conan.
Conan raged all the time. He would recklessly charge headlong into fights using renewed or untapped strength. I think our conception of rage is warps by the Hulk or other "mindless rager" archetypes. Rage does not make you stupid. It has no mechanical effect on your mental stats other than you can't use INT based skills while raging, i.e. reckless.
In "The God in the Bowl" Conan displays all the signs of rage while fighting the snake god. At the sight of his dying companion, he screams, activates his rage (free action), and charges into the room which the god is hiding. The others warn him against attacking, but he recklessly ignores them (penalty to AC). He was injured from a previous fight, but his anger has renewed his strength and constitution (bonus to STR and CON/ temporary hit points). The god tries to hypnotize him, he overcomes it (bonus to Will).
Yes, he's not the Hulk when he rages, grunting or speaking in broken English. But, really, no barbarian (save the True Primitive or the Wild Rager archetypes, and even they don't suffer penalties to mental stats) should be played that way. I don't know how it started (probably 3E with their Half-Orc Iconic Barbarian and their illiterate ability), but Barbarians aren't mindless juggernauts. They're Conan.
thank you vindicator! i've been saying the same thing for years.
Let's see if I can sum this up:
For the movie Conan, a straight up Fighter with a few traits like Highlander will do nicely, perhaps take as many unarmored AC bonuses as possible.
For the book Conan, the idea is to be a Barbarian, and take some levels in Rogue and/or Ranger? I'd like it if you guys could come up with a consensus. Once we narrow down the class/es, we can go for archetypes, and then establish attributes.
looks like this thread died
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Should be barbarian and rogue. Possibly fighter when he gets older. NO way he would b ranger. You are only suggesting ranger to fit mechanics. And if you read the real Conan stories from weird tales which some of you have, you agree with me. Conan was equal parts rogue and barbarian with a little bit of warrior. Read several of the stoies and you will see Conan tried his hand several times to be a captain of the guard or some other ordered "warrior" position and he himself said it wasnt for him. He always led tribes of bandits and nomads and had a knack for recruiting others to his cause.... Barb and rogue with a little fighter.
Well, if he is basically a Barbarian, and Rogue, then how much of each? Should I just make a Barb 1 Rogue 1 character, and call it good?
What are you trying to reflect?
Conan goes all the way to the old age category in the REH stories before the end. At that level, he's still pretty formidable ... and he has feats that don't make sense to a 'standard' PC...
How about Inquisitor of Krom?
Give him some shoes of striding and springing, that makes up for acrobatics and enhanced movement.
Also conversion inquisition or travel domain.
I think with the inquisitor you can mimic a lot of the conan features very well. One or 2 levels ranger with favored enemy human and a terrain would b a good suit too.
How about Bard??
How about Bard??
FACEPALM! Cheese City. I am SO gonna torture my best friend with this one. It just became his Orc Fighter's theme song....
Well, what I am trying to do is provide a guide for creating Conan so that people could run a PC as close to the character as is possible.
Hayato Ken, are you pulling my leg? I don't find it funny, in fact, it looks like actively trolling.
Conan raged, as in straight up Barbarian? That contradicts what I have heard before.
Noted for it.
Conan, on the high-pitched poop, was on a level with the pirate's deck. As the steel prow slashed into the Argus, he braced himself and kept his feet under the shock, casting away his bow. A tall corsair, bounding over the rail, was met in midair by the Cimmerian's great sword, which sheared him cleanly through the torso, so that his body fell one way and his legs another. Then, with a burst of fury that left a heap of mangled corpses along the gunwales, Conan was over the rail and on the deck of the Tigress.
In an instant he was the center of a hurricane of stabbing spears and lashing clubs. But he moved in a blinding blur of steel. Spears bent on his armor or swished empty air, and his sword sang its death-song. The fighting-madness of his race was upon him, and with a red mist of unreasoning fury wavering before his blazing eyes, he cleft skulls, smashed breasts, severed limbs, ripped out entrails, and littered the deck like a shambles with a ghastly harvest of brains and blood.
As the third tribesman clumped his way past Conan to his death, the Cimmerian, his veins bulging in his temples with his efforts to break past the unseen barrier that held him, was suddenly aware of allied forces, unseen, but waking into life about him. This realization came without warning, but so powerfully that he could not doubt his instinct. His left hand slid involuntarily under his Bakhariot belt and closed on the Stygian girdle. And as he gripped it he felt new strength flood his numbed limbs; the will to live was a pulsing white-hot fire, matched by the intensity of his burning rage.
Conan spoke imperturbably. He was a barbarian, and the terrible patience of the wilderness and its children was as much a part of him as his lusts and rages. He could endure a situation like this with a coolness impossible to a civilized person.
[...]
The Cimmerian started toward Tecuhltli with reckless speed. Rapidly he reckoned the numbers of his former allies. Only twenty-one, counting Olmec, had survived that fiendish battle in the throne room. Three had died since, which left seventeen enemies with which to reckon. In his rage Conan felt capable of accounting for the whole clan single-handed.
But the innate craft of the wilderness rose to guide his berserk rage. He remembered Techotl's warning of an ambush. It was quite probable that the prince would make such provisions, on the chance that Topal might have failed to carry out his order. Olmec would be expecting him to return by the same route he had followed in going to Xotalanc.
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Skills are still an issue, just for raw number of skills. It's not a matter of the +3 bonus for the skill being a class skill, it's a matter of having enough skill points without having to put an incredible score in Intelligence.
The high intelligence score would be in keeping with the Conan character as depicted in R.E. Howard's original stories. From the Conan wiki:
"Conan speaks many languages, including advanced reading and writing abilities: in certain stories, he is able to recognize, or even decipher, certain ancient or secret signs and writings"
Conan wasn't the dim-wit uttering "grom" like a neanderthal until the 80's movie - the mediocre novels around that time didn't help much either though. In the original stories he wasn't educated, but he wasn't in any place for long before he had a good command of the language. Unlike D&D and PF world's there wasn't a common tongue in Conan's world. As to the raging, there's definitely times in the original stories where he enters a rage like state and he seems to be more effective with it when he's already taken a good number of wounds.
I'm afraid I'm not familiar enough with PF to write up a Conan-like archetype, but IMO if you want to keep with the original character, intelligence and rage should be factored in.
Conan didn't strike me as unusually intelligent, just charismatic. I'd build him as a barbarian, adding a dash of rogue (using the bandit, pirate, or thug archetype) to cover the wide variety of skills (and languages) he displayed in his adventures.
Okay, now that we know for certain that he is a mix of both Barbarian and Rogue, we now need to figure out what the various class options for each that he should have. Once we finish with the list for each class, then archetypes, we can then determine attributes, and finally how many levels of each class he should have (plus the feats). I figure we can go all the way to 20th level, providing a class/leveling guide.
For Barbarian, I propose anything to do with pounding the heck out of wizards and especially sorcerers, possibly Witches. Therefore, Superstitious, Witch Hunter, Spellbreaker rage powers.
I am unsure of Barbarian archetype, however. You'd think Superstitious, but that includes dramatically improved night vision. He seemed pretty human to me.