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Here's a thought: instead of massive defences from paladin and Holy vindicator, would an Oracle 20/Shadow dancer 1 build be better in the end with more lvl 9 spells and my Final Revelation already under my belt?
There is a bit of a feat tax with combat reflexes. dodge and mobility aren't that bad for me to have with all those touch spells. It would require a large feat and gear re-work. :(
Its not really that limiting.. The hand has a medium range, so can travel quite far from u and deliver spells.. Has a decent duration and is hard to kill.. Read the spell its not that bad..
I personally love oracle/pallies and the vindicator shield is a great buff for u.. thats why i never suggested any other classes.. My next character will be an Oath of Vengeance Pally 4/Oracle of Battle x...
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Wait, you can UMD a Ring of Revelations? Holy crap! That makes things easier! I would need to wear 0 max dex armor, but that's not a problem. How exactly does that work? Do I roll every time I use it?
So I have two EH options now. Arcane for more efficient Metamagic and a bonded item vs shadow for stealth options. This will require some thought.
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As for spells and spell perfection, my first reaction is one of my heals, but it has been pointed out before that they make poor candidates. Usually some blasting spell is picked, but I'm not a blaster.
As for the spell list, I think I need to shift my thinking. I look at the spells and think about damage potential when I should be thinking about buffing and control. With my crazy defence, I should focus on shutting people down and letting the others do the killing.
I would imagine you would need to UMD every time you attune to the item in question.
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I have played an oracle before they can be quite fun.
A few questions for you though.
wealth for the character to start with?
Any objection slight changes in the build?
Whats the other group members building?
hp rolled or max?
With a little more information I don't mind posting a build I would use in a undead heavy campaign.
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I'm assuming 1.25 million, though trying to use less than that in case the GM decides to lower it from now 'til then. Really I haven't spent more than lvl 20 Wealth(880,000 ish) just to be safe. We will almost certainly have more.
This whole thread has been about build changes, but if you mean class changes, go ahead and suggest. I'm keeping an open mind here, with preference toward Life Oracle.
HP rolled (max first). All I know of the rest of the party so far is a tripping whip fighter, but we will have no backup or friendly town. So any resurrection or crafting we can provide ourselves is good. That's why I'm focusing on defence and survivability so hard. I wasn't planning on taking any crafting feats, however.
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First I would like to say I have never gotten to 20 let alone 20+ but, If I did this would be my 20 level character.
Please feel free to change it around as you see fit but, this should do GREAT against undead not to mention keep the team alive.
I believe I only spent 305820 GP.
Ring of Protection +5
Seducer's Bane
Headband of alluring Charisma +6
Neckless of Natural Armor +5
clock of resistance +5
shirt of Faith
Belt of incredible Dexterity
Boot's of Levitation
Celestial Armor (Mithral)
Shield, Heavy Steal (Mithral)
Heal = max
Knowledge(Religion) = max
Knowledge(Plains) = max
Spellcraft = max
That leaves 2 skill points per level.
Traits:
Reactionary +2 init
Magical Knack - I left as you posted it. (perhaps a trait to reduce spell level slot used for cure spells would be better?)
Curses (Duel):
Deaf(progresses)
Haunted
Safe Curing
Channel (Positive)
Energy Body
Enhanced Cures
Life Link
Spirit boost
Lifesense
Misfortune
Extra Channel
Piercing Spell
Reach Spell
Selective Channeling
Still Spell
Toughness
Versatile Channeler
(3 left over)
Str: 14 Dex: 22 Con: 16 Int: 14 Wis: 16 Cha: 33
HP: 180 (max first level, average(4) the rest, +1 per level (except 4 that were +1/2's to revelation effect))
AC: 34 = 6 armor + 2 shield + 6 Dex + 5 natural armor + 5 deflection + 10 misc
Touch: 21
Flat Footed: 28
init +8
BAB: 15
Speed: 20ft
spell fail: 10%
energy resistance + 5 (acid, cold, electricity, evil)
+ 5 saves against enchantments
dark vision 60ft
fort: 14 = 6 + 3 + 5
Ref: 17 = 6 + 6 + 5
Will: 20 = 12 + 3 + 5
CMB: 17 = 15 + 2
CMD: 38 = 15 + 8 + 15
as for weapons a wand (perhaps you created!) of cure X wounds should be your weapon as well as your spells.
The basics of this build make you a healing beam of awesome. The basic idea is to make it so you do not require movement, speech, or a divine focus to cast spells. (At lest until this point as Oracles don't require a divine focus.) With Safe Curing, Channel (Positive) Energy, Energy Body, Enhanced Cures and, life link as revelations you will be healing massive amounts of damage. Safe curing makes any cure spell you cast NOT provoke and Enhanced Cures makes that cure _____ wounds heal for the dice + Your Oracle level! You will find that helpful as your teammates take damage (with life link attached to them) you'll be taking 5 damage for them a round until they are only missing 4 hit points. Then when you cast channel positive energy to heal, the over all amount of damage healed is a lot greater. Then lastly energy body this is just pure win for hurting any undead. If you haven't read it I'll post it its that good.
Energy Body (Su): As a standard action, you can transform your body into pure life energy, resembling a golden-white fire elemental. In this form, you gain the elemental subtype and give off a warm, welcoming light that increases the light level within 10 feet by one step, up to normal light. Any undead creature striking you with its body or a handheld weapon deals normal damage, but at the same time the attacker takes 1d6 points of positive energy damage + 1 point per oracle level. Creatures wielding melee weapons with reach are not subject to this damage if they attack you. If you grapple or attack an undead creature using unarmed strikes or natural weapons, you may deal this damage in place of the normal damage for the attack. Once per round, if you pass through a living allied creature's square or the ally passes through your square, it heals 1d6 hit points + 1 per oracle level. You may use this ability to heal yourself as a move action. You choose whether or not to heal a creature when it passes through your space. You may return to your normal form as a free action. You may remain in energy body form for a number of rounds per day equal to your oracle level.
If you have any questions regarding the build please let me know and I will do my best to answer them. As a final note the level 7 Oracle I had was able to heal over 300 points of damage in one day of combat when I played him.
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James: I hadn't thought about an intelligent item. I'll have to look into that.
As for ring cost: would I just tack 50% of the cost of the required level ring onto my existing one? That could mean several useful revelations all in one slot.
Valmoon: Thanks for the build! It has many similarities to the current iteration which must be a good thing. You have some items I've never heard of. I'll be sure to look those up.
Also, I've seen Still Spell come up a couple times. It just struck me that the ability to ignore Somatic components mIght be useful.
I also ignored life link because it's just 5 damage. Will it make that much difference at level 21?
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James: I hadn't thought about an intelligent item. I'll have to look into that.
As for ring cost: would I just tack 50% of the cost of the required level ring onto my existing one? That could mean several useful revelations all in one slot.Valmoon: Thanks for the build! It has many similarities to the current iteration which must be a good thing. You have some items I've never heard of. I'll be sure to look those up.
Also, I've seen Still Spell come up a couple times. It just struck me that the ability to ignore Somatic components mIght be useful.
I also ignored life link because it's just 5 damage. Will it make that much difference at level 21?
Well a Somatic component is something you hold in your hand some undead can paralyze you. So you can't exactly grab or use components if you can't get at them correct? Still spell removes that issue.
Honestly no probably not but, if they get hit and drop below 0 but, are not dead dead. Then you auto stabilize them without moving, on your turn with that ability as they received healing.
Also self made wands are amazing, because you made them the normal + cap doesn't exist for healing spells. so even your cure light wounds heals for a minimum of 21 points of damage!
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Indeed. Now I'll have to seriously Concider taking Craft Wand.
As far as Eldrich Heritages go, I think I'm leaning toward Arcane. The Hide in Plain Sight and mobility bonuses from Shadow are tempting, but the versatility in Metamagic casting and extra spells from Arcane (not to mention a Bonded Item) will ultimately be more of a boon, I think. I can also make wands of my 4th lvl wizard spell.
If anyone disagrees, please, don't hold back.
Back to Life Link, I do see that benefit. And it is kinda like giving everyone fast healing 5, which stacks. I can't see anyone turning that down.
I wasn't able to find the Shirt of Faith, but the Seducer's bane gauntlets looked fun. Can I tell my DM I failed when I didn't to maintain the illusion? :P
I'll work on getting another build iteration up tomorrow, but no promises as its a busy day.
You can't stick class abilities into a wand unless the class abilities say so.
So, his CLW wands are just like everyone else's, unless he has a class ability that affects healing out of items and wands.
==Aelryinth
Wands (IIRC) don't bypass Spell Caps. I also don't think they can be modified by Metamagic or similar effects.
I don't think you can do either without a Feat or Class Ability that allows it.
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If this is going to be undead heavy Ghostvision Gloves would be a worthy purchase for 4k as a standard once a day you can select one undead in range to deal d12 for channel damage instead of d6... so 17d12 of explosions. This lasts for 10 rounds and you see all undead within 60 feet. Downside you are treated as blind to everything but undead during this time but if you had tremorsense from something that would be a fair trade off. Also with the channel force feats you can safely stay far away and blast away.
Divine Interference
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I wasn't able to find the Shirt of Faith, but the Seducer's bane gauntlets looked fun. Can I tell my DM I failed when I didn't to maintain the illusion? :PI'll work on getting another build iteration up tomorrow, but no promises as its a busy day.
I will have to get back to you on the shirt. I didn't look up were ts from. as I didn't when I built it. So I can't directly look it up until I get access to that pc again.
Revelations:
Enhanced Cures (Su): Whenever you cast a cure spell, the maximum number of hit points healed is based on your oracle level, not the limit based on the spell. For example, an 11th-level oracle of life with this revelation may cast cure light wounds to heal 1d8+11 hit points instead of the normal 1d8+5 maximum.
Also,
The creator must have prepared the spell to be stored (or must know the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any focuses the spell requires. Fifty of each needed material component are required (one for each charge). Material components are consumed when work begins, but focuses are not. A focus used in creating a wand can be reused. The act of working on the wand triggers the prepared spell, making it unavailable for casting during each day devoted to the wand's creation. (That is, that spell slot is expended from the caster's currently prepared spells, just as if it had been cast.)Crafting a wand requires 1 day per each 1,000 gp of the base price.
Item Creation Feat Required: Craft Wand.
Skill Used in Creation: Spellcraft, Craft (jewelry), Craft (sculptures), or Profession (woodcutter).
So because He is the creator and his cure spells are effected by Enhanced Cures, I would say the wand is also effected. (Only because he crafted it). Perhaps make sure your gm feels the same way after a polite talk would be best.
The only thing I found against what I said is that the spells are normally cast at lowest form but, again he is the creator and there for can set spell level to his liking.
you are absolutely incorrect, Valmoon. Caster bonuses are NEVER included in the wand...be they feats, high stats, or class abilities. Your example of 'the caster' is irrelevant...a 20th level caster can make a CLW level 1 wand, and it's no different then someone level 5, and class abilities never enter the picture. As far as the wand is concerned, all CLW spells are the same.
All wands are the same, regardless of the creator. Spell x, minimum casting stat, x caster level...nothing else. Furthermore, they all use either the cleric or wizard spell level...your Summoner cannot make a level 2 Haste wand. His wands are like all the rest.
Yes, you can use metamagic feats as part of a wand, i.e. a wand of maximized Magic Missiles as a 4th level wand.
As for using metamagic in staves, that's also a yes. Go look at the Staff of Power...3 of the Spells are Heightened to 5th level.
==Aelryinth
Actually that is only in PFS that they use the Cleric or Wizard Level. Outside of PFS it is a Houserule.
But you can create a CLW Wand as both a CL1 or CL5 Wand but it isn't modified by anything else.
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A wand is a thin baton that contains a single spell of 4th level or lower. A wand has 50 charges when created—each charge allows the use of the wand's spell one time. A wand that runs out of charges is just a stick. The price of a wand is equal to the level of the spell × the creator's caster level × 750 gp. If the wand has a material component cost, it is added to the base price and cost to create once for each charge (50 × material component cost). Table: Wands gives sample prices for wands created at the lowest possible caster level for each spellcasting class. Note that some spells appear at different levels for different casters. The level of such spells depends on the caster crafting the wand.
So it does come into play.
However, I would still talk it over with your GM.
The Cleric/Wizard thing has already been stated by me. In the post before yours. It actually was made to prevent abuse and goes off the assumption that the Wand is made by a Cleric and/or Wizard and then sold to the PC.
And I can understand there being no Arcane/Divine Scroll division. It makes Treasure easier and makes resources easier to use for a party.
EDIT: It has been stated before that if the PCs just Buy a Scroll or Wand it should be assumed that it was made by a Wizard or Cleric. Only if the PCs actually craft an item themselves should the Paladin crafting price come into play.
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Wise words, LazarX. I dont mind the slow responces. At least I'm getting some feedback. That's all I'm really looking for. The advise of one or two experienced people is invaluable to one such as me.
I have no doubts that the build will change as I learn more party members. This is why I've kinda stuck to a feat discussion and not focused on the spells. I know I need to coordinate those with the roles the other party members will cover. Thinking through possible builds can't be bad. If the party ends up more stealthy, I may go Shadow elderitch heritage. I'm just fishing for ideas and feedback.
And a sincere thank you to all who have responded. You have helped be avoid many errors thus far.
Are you guys working with the rule that you have to multiclass after 20 levels in a class, or are you going to houserule the character progression after that?
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Are you guys working with the rule that you have to multiclass after 20 levels in a class, or are you going to houserule the character progression after that?
He has implied that you can just continue on above 20 in one class and extrapolate the class features, but no hard and fast rule because I didn't think to ask. I would, personally, rather multiclass into something that gave +CL and gain extra class features.
Indeed. Now I'll have to seriously Concider taking Craft Wand.
As far as Eldrich Heritages go, I think I'm leaning toward Arcane. The Hide in Plain Sight and mobility bonuses from Shadow are tempting, but the versatility in Metamagic casting and extra spells from Arcane (not to mention a Bonded Item) will ultimately be more of a boon, I think. I can also make wands of my 4th lvl wizard spell.
If anyone disagrees, please, don't hold back.Back to Life Link, I do see that benefit. And it is kinda like giving everyone fast healing 5, which stacks. I can't see anyone turning that down.
I wasn't able to find the Shirt of Faith, but the Seducer's bane gauntlets looked fun. Can I tell my DM I failed when I didn't to maintain the illusion? :P
I'll work on getting another build iteration up tomorrow, but no promises as its a busy day.
Arcane Bonded (Familiar) It let you deliver your touch spells with your Familiar.
Then take ...
Adept Channel
Source Orcs of Golarion pg. 27
Some orc adepts enjoy a greater connection to their gods, and can channel their faith through their unholy symbols. You gain the ability to channel energy as a cleric.
Prerequisites: Ability to cast divine spells, summon familiar class ability, caster level 4th, Cha 13.
Benefit: You gain the channel energy class feature, as a cleric, usable 2 times per day. This ability otherwise functions like the cleric’s channel energy ability, except that your effective cleric level is equal to your divine spellcasting class level –3. Unlike a cleric, however, the number of times per day you may channel energy is not affected by your Charisma modifier.
This give you ton of Channels.
Hell you should be able to just spam them to death.
2 spell to think about
Liberating Command
Source Ultimate Combat pg. 1, Andoran, Spirit of Liberty pg. 27
School transmutation; Level bard 1, cleric/oracle 1, druid 1, paladin 1, ranger 1, sorcerer/wizard 1
Casting
Casting Time 1 immediate action
Components V
Effect
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target one creature
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance yes (harmless)
Description
If the target is bound, grappled, or otherwise restrained, he may make an Escape Artist check to escape as an immediate action. He gains a competence bonus on this check equal to twice your caster level (maximum +20). This spell has no effect if the target could not get free by using the Escape Artist skill (for example, if he were under the effects of a hold person spell or paralyzed by Strength damage).
Why casue being grappeled suck. Also you will be the best person to casting since evey spell slot could be able to used cast it. It will get to the point that your GM will not use monster that grab or grappel.
Just make sure your party spend ranks in Escape Artist or buy INT +2 item with (Escape Artist)as the skill in it.
2nd level
Admonishing Ray
Source Taldor, Echoes of Glory pg. 24
School evocation [force]; Level cleric/oracle 2, sorcerer/wizard 2
Casting
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Effect
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect one or more rays
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance yes
Description
You blast your enemies with rays of nonlethal force. You may fire one ray, plus one additional ray for every four levels you possess beyond 3rd (to a maximum of three rays at 11th level). Each ray requires a ranged touch attack to hit and deals 4d6 points of nonlethal damage. This is a force effect. The rays may be fired at the same or different targets, but all rays must be fired simultaneously and aimed at targets within 30 feet of each other. The rays hit about as hard as a punch from a strong adult human, and can knock away unattended objects weighing up to 10 pounds if that amount of force could normally do so.
Why? you ask dose nothng vs undead... but it great vs all the stuff with engery Ressitance.
Magic items to think about...
Robe of Arcane Heritage
Price 16,000 gp; Aura moderate necromancy; CL9th; Weight 1 lb.
These elegant, dark purple robes are usually decorated with gold stitching suggesting a particular sorcerer bloodline, though some might indicate a family tree. When a sorcerer dons a robe of arcane heritage, the stitching pulls itself apart and reweaves to match her particular sorcerer bloodline. The wearer treats her sorcerer level as 4 higher than normal for the purpose of determining what bloodline powers she can use and their effects.
Construction Requirements
Cost 8,000 gp
Craft Wondrous Item, speak with dead, creator must be a sorcerer
Silver Smite Bracelet
Aura moderate transmutation; CL 9th
Slot wrist; Price 16,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.
Description
This heavy silver bracelet is etched with icons of purity, fidelity, chastity, and honor, and glows with a soft white light whenever its owner prays. The wearer of this bracelet treats her paladin level as 4 higher than normal for the purpose of her smite evil class feature.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, align weapon, creator must be a paladin; Cost 8,000 gp
Phylactery of Positive Channeling
Aura moderate necromancy [good]; CL 10th
Slot headband; Price 11,000 gp; Weight —
Description
This item allows channelers of positive energy to increase the amount of damage dealt to undead creatures by +2d6. This also increases the amount of damage healed by living creatures.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, creator must be a 10th-level cleric; Cost 5,500 gp
Holy Avenger
Aura strong abjuration; CL 18th
Slot none; Price 120,630 gp; Weight 4 lbs.
DESCRIPTION
This +2 cold iron longsword becomes a +5 holy cold iron longsword in the hands of a paladin.
This sacred weapon provides spell resistance of 5 + the paladin's level to the wielder and anyone adjacent to her. It also enables the paladin to use greater dispel magic (once per round as a standard action) at the class level of the paladin. Only the area dispel is possible, not the targeted dispel or counterspell versions of greater dispel magic.
Construction
Requirements Craft Magic Arms and Armor, holy aura, creator must be good; Cost 60,630 gp
Celestial Plate Armor
Source Pathfinder #11: Skeletons of Scarwell pg. 29
Aura faint transmutation (good) CL 8th
Slot armor; Price 28,650 gp; Weight 25 lbs.
Description
Celestial plate armor is a sturdier version of the standard celestial armor. This bright silver suit of +3 full plate is remarkably light, and is treated as medium armor. It has a maximum Dexterity bonus of +6, an armor check penalty of –3, and an arcane spell failure chance of 20%. It allows the wearer to use fly on command (as the spell) once per day.
Construction
Requirements Craft Magic Arms and Armor, creator must be good, fly; Price 15,150 gp, 1,080 XP
Celestial Shield
Aura moderate evocation [good]; CL 7th
Slot shield; Price 13,170 gp; Weight 7 lbs.
Description
This bright silver or gold +2 blinding heavy steel shield is impossibly light and handy despite its size. It has no armor check penalty or arcane spell failure chance, and it allows the wielder to use feather fall on himself once per day. A creature wearing celestial armor while wielding a celestial shield may command the armor to provide overland flight rather than fly once per day.
Construction
Requirements Craft Magic Arms and Armor, feather fall, overland flight; Cost 6,670 gp
Ring of Revelation
Price Varies; Aura moderate varies; CL 11th; Weight —
Lesser 10,000 gp; Greater 16,000 gp; Superior 24,000 gp
A ring of revelation is a divine item attuned to a particular oracular mystery and containing a revelation associated with that mystery (see the oracle class description). While wearing the ring, an oracle has access to that revelation and may use it as if she had it as a normal class feature. The oracle must have the appropriate mystery to use the ring, and must meet the level requirements (if any) of the revelation itself; for example, a ring of revelation (combat healer) is only usable by an oracle of at least 7th level with the battle mystery. If the oracle already has that revelation and the revelation gives an ability with a limited number of uses per day, the oracle can use that ability one additional time per day. The ring has no effect if worn by a non-oracle.
A lesser ring of revelation contains a revelation that has no level prerequisite or a prerequisite that is less than 6th level. A greater ring of revelation contains a revelation that requires the oracle to be 7th level or higher. A superior ring of revelation contains a revelation that requires the oracle to be 11th level or higher.
Construction Requirements
Cost varies
Lesser 5,000 gp; Greater 8,000 gp; Superior 12,000 gp
Forge Ring, creator must be an oracle with the desired revelation
The rule about using the mu or cleric list is errata. Certainly not PFS, which has no crafting.
It's done to prevent rules abuse and leveraging of spell lists against one another. Always use the MU/C pricing if lists conflict.
==Aelryinth
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The rule about using the mu or cleric list is errata. Certainly not PFS, which has no crafting.
It's done to prevent rules abuse and leveraging of spell lists against one another. Always use the MU/C pricing if lists conflict.
==Aelryinth
I'm not seeing it, which errata is it in and could you just give a link or copy paste?
-James
Yes please post a link.
It's the best way to support what your saying.(MU/C?)
My link-fu is almost as bad as my search-fu. I've seen the rule quoted several times here. I believe it was included in the most recent batch coming out by SKR?
Sorry, MU/C is showing my age. Cleric/Wiz lists.
==Aelryinth
Benefit: You gain the channel energy class feature, as a cleric, usable 2 times per day. This ability otherwise functions like the cleric’s channel energy ability, except that your effective cleric level is equal to your divine spellcasting class level –3. Unlike a cleric, however, the number of times per day you may channel energy is not affected by your Charisma modifier.He gets Channel as an available revelation anyway as a Life Oracle. And given that he's going to have a skyhigh Charisma...
Channel (Su): You can channel positive energy like a cleric, using your oracle level as your effective cleric level when determining the amount of damage healed (or caused to undead) and the DC. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 1 + your Charisma modifier.
The whole point is spend 1 feat to get 2 more turn per day to save spells. So spell are used what they are ment for not healing. Or 2 more channel per day to hurt undead. Shoot it may be worth it to go Paladin 4th/Oracle 16th /Holy Vindicator 1st. Just for more channels.
Shoot after looking at Holy Vindicator can stack with both paladian and cleric channel pool and raise caster level thier by raising all 3 channel pools it strong Prestige class.
Buy going Paladian 5th/ Oracle 6th/ and Holy Vindicator 10.
Spell Casting Oracle 13 with 7th level spells
BaB of +19 Fort of +10 Reflex +7 Will +11 Base line
Lay on Hands 7 times +CHA for 7 dice
Oracle Channel 1+CHA for 8 dice
Adepet Channel 2 times for for 5 dice* 6 dice if +2 caster level trait Magical nack is taken.
So at then end of the Day it Channel 10 time per day +2 times CHA mod. Than is a ton of channels. Welcome to spam Channel vs undead
On second thought, didn't I see a thread around here somewhere that decided that only NPC's could take Adept Channel?
Not that I know of... I never have seen feat for NPC only.