Goblin Squad Member
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I beleive there is a way to implement necromancy that captures the spirit of the pathfinder PnP and doesn't make an overpower character capable of soloing there way through the game. (concerns of GW I beleive)
In simple terms, make necromancers gallente (eve online reference, do the research).
make the summoned skeletons, zombies, etc drones.
Allow them to inscribe summon undead (launch drones) & command undead (make them do stuff, like attack, harvest, defend) and a few necro utility spells, with the training running parallel to eve drone training, in essence as the necro "levels" he can command a number of skeletons (light drones) equal to his level or zombies (medium drones) equal to half his level or something undeader then a zombie (heavy drone) equal to 1/4 his level.
don't make the undead (drones) stupidly hard to hit like eve but balance them so they are roughly about as powerful as a character not quite as advanced as the necro training wise.
Remember, spells are tied to spellbooks, so keep the power level in check by limiting the spells that can be inscribed in the same books with summon undead & command undead.
So you can play a necro, but you sacrifice your direct damage, aoe spells, utility spells, etc for DoT/utility pets.
Wait, so all Necromancers are Evil in Pathfinder Online? Did they seriously decide that's the way to go?
Then I refuse to identify it as Pathfinder, since Pharasma is Neutral and can even have Neutral Good Necromancers.
You're proving my point, and just giving me more reason not to play.
Asking how to make it work is futile, because it apparently just doesn't work.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Casting spells with the [Necromancy] descriptor isnt what triggers the Heinous flag (the 'Im evil, stab me' flag). Thats specifically for creating/summoning/controlling undead as well as using slaves.
In short, as per current design philosphy, not all necromancers are evil. Just those who use undead.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Heinous
The character has committed an act that is universally viewed as evil, such as raising and controlling undead, using slaves to build structures or gather resources, etc.
- Each time the character gets the Heinous flag they lose good vs. evil.
- Anyone may kill a Heinous character without fearing reputation or alignment loss.
- Heinous is removed once the character has been killed.
- The Heinous flag lasts one minute beyond the duration of the deed unless the character does something to get it again before the duration runs out. Characters using undead for example will have the Heinous flag the entire time they are using undead.
[Cont'd...]
Here it is, Icyshadow.
I assume messing with death magic could be a corrupting practice? I don't really know how pathfinder describes necromancy? Hm, as above this particular act itself, not the full necromantic practice is described.
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This is incorrect,Wait, so all Necromancers are Evil in Pathfinder Online? Did they seriously decide that's the way to go?
Then I refuse to identify it as Pathfinder, since Pharasma is Neutral and can even have Neutral Good Necromancers.
As the goddess of death and rebirth, she abhors the undead and considers them a perversion. This latter fact leads Pharasma to grant modified powers through the Death domain and the Soul subdomain when they are granted to her followers. Spells that her followers are granted do not have the ability to benefit or create undead; this is not the case for other deities granting their followers access to this domain and subdomain.[3]
Pathfinder CLEARLY states that necromancy in any form is mechanically evil. Pharasma in particular would probably take her favor back from those who abuse the powers of death, and undeath.
This is incorrect,Wait, so all Necromancers are Evil in Pathfinder Online? Did they seriously decide that's the way to go?
Then I refuse to identify it as Pathfinder, since Pharasma is Neutral and can even have Neutral Good Necromancers.
As the goddess of death and rebirth, she abhors the undead and considers them a perversion. This latter fact leads Pharasma to grant modified powers through the Death domain and the Soul subdomain when they are granted to her followers. Spells that her followers are granted do not have the ability to benefit or create undead; this is not the case for other deities granting their followers access to this domain and subdomain.Pathfinder CLEARLY states that necromancy in any form is mechanically evil. Pharasma in particular would probably take her favor back from those who abuse the powers of death, and undeath.
Funny that you quote official stuff, and still get it wrong.
Many of Pharasma's worshipers are those closely aligned with either burgeoning life or terminating death. These include midwives, grave diggers, and morticians. Her priests are typically clerics, diviners, and necromancers that choose not to create undead.
I'm sorry, but either you're playing with some really bad houserules or then you don't know what you're talking about.
Then again, could just be both. I doubt it matters by this part, since you're probably the type who can't accept ever being wrong.
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Goblin Squad Member
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SourcePathfinder CLEARLY states that necromancy in any form is mechanically evil. Pharasma in particular would probably take her favor back from those who abuse the powers of death, and undeath.
No it doesn't. What is stated there is that the undead are an abomination. Necromancy is more than just dealing with the undead. Otherwise spells like Blindness/Deafness, Ray of Enfeeblement, Cause Fear and Disrupt Undead would all be evil spells.
No it doesn't. What is stated there is that the undead are an abomination. Necromancy is more than just dealing with the undead. Otherwise spells like Blindness/Deafness, Ray of Enfeeblement, Cause Fear and Disrupt Undead would all be evil spells.
SourcePathfinder CLEARLY states that necromancy in any form is mechanically evil. Pharasma in particular would probably take her favor back from those who abuse the powers of death, and undeath.
Thank you!
Adding to that, they are an abomination to a Neutral deity.
Not to a Lawful Good one, not to a Neutral Good one, nor to a Chaotic Good one.
So play that way then. Problem solved.
Play what? PFO, or Pathfinder?
But apparently I can't play a Neutral Good Necromancer in PFO.
Which is totally against Golarion canon, but still something within the game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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But apparently I can't play a Neutral Good Necromancer in PFO.
Which is totally against Golarion canon, but still something within the game.
Look, folks, there's some confusion here regarding the term "Necromancy". Necromancy (the school of magic) does not get you the Heinous flag, does not make you open target, does not make you evil, and does not bother Pharasma. Necromancy (the specific act of raising and controlling undead) is what gets you in trouble. Spells like Chill Touch, Ray of Enfeeblement, etc, are not going to (currently) cause problems.
You can play someone who uses necromancy (the school) magic without problems. You cannot do the same raising and controlling undead.
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Goblin Squad Member
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But apparently I can't play a Neutral Good Necromancer in PFO.
Which is totally against Golarion canon, but still something within the game.
Not true. You can play a Neutral Good Necromancer, and be very effective at destroying undead. If you CREATE undead, THAT is what is evil.
Per the PRD:
Animate Dead
School necromancy [evil]; Level cleric 3, sorcerer/wizard 4
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (an onyx gem worth at least 25 gp per Hit Die of the undead)
Range touch
Targets one or more corpses touched
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no
This spell turns corpses into undead skeletons or zombies that obey your spoken commands.
It's an Evil spell. If you create undead, you are committing an evil act. Period.
Necromancy is far more than creating undead. Most necromancy spells don't have the evil descriptor. If you use them, you could be a Lawful Good Paladin/Wizard and retain your Paladin status. Animate Dead does have the evil descriptor, so it's evil in the PF:RPG rules.
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Goblin Squad Member
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But apparently I can't play a Neutral Good Necromancer in PFO.
Which is totally against Golarion canon, but still something within the game.
Correct me if I'm wrong. Animate dead and create undead are evil spells and therefore cannot be used by good clerics.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Correct me if I'm wrong. Animate dead and create undead are evil spells and therefore cannot be used by good clerics.But apparently I can't play a Neutral Good Necromancer in PFO.
Which is totally against Golarion canon, but still something within the game.
Nope, but they can be used by good wizards. (How long they remain good is debatable)
Nope, but they can be used by good wizards. (How long they remain good is debatable)Correct me if I'm wrong. Animate dead and create undead are evil spells and therefore cannot be used by good clerics.But apparently I can't play a Neutral Good Necromancer in PFO.
Which is totally against Golarion canon, but still something within the game.
I see no reason why a Good Wizard can't cast Animate Dead or Create Undead a few times in their life while still staying good.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I can imagine the scenario where this is actually RP'd. Frodo and Aragorn are down, stabilized but barely alive. Gandalf is holding firm against the mountain troll at the door but the door is splintering and the spell cannot hold every splinter as it seperates from the door. Yet all about the ancient skeletons of dwarves still clutch their weapons and never had a chance to remove their armor before they fell all those years ago.
How can Gandalf save Frodo and his mission unless... No! It is unthinkable... yet it is the only solution present to him.
Finally in desperation Gandalf casts the spell he thought he would never use and the dwarf skeletons struggle up undead, readying their weapons as the door bursts from its hinges and the troll roars his defiance, lumbering a step into the room. Behind him myriad goblins chitter and leer, licking their dogslicers and shaking their raised spears.
Yet Gandalf gasps as he feels his alignment slipping, but the undead swing their weapons on the troll. They are individually battered back by that mountain of angry flesh, yet rise again to remorselessly strike.
Then Gimli, noticing Gandalf has a Heinous flag realizes Gandalf has fallen and is now the enemy! He readies his sharp axe and sneaks up behind the grey wizard, now ashen-faced with his sacrifice...
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I see no reason why a Good Wizard can't cast Animate Dead or Create Undead a few times in their life while still staying good.Nope, but they can be used by good wizards. (How long they remain good is debatable)Correct me if I'm wrong. Animate dead and create undead are evil spells and therefore cannot be used by good clerics.But apparently I can't play a Neutral Good Necromancer in PFO.
Which is totally against Golarion canon, but still something within the game.
Maybe because we are defined by our actions...? You dog that person out earlier, yet you seem to be the one with either crazy house rules or have decided you are right from the beginning and cannot be reasoned with.
The core rule book as any form of raising undead with an evil descriptor as part of the spell. Might a good wizard raise a spector or call someone back once for some super vital quest that in the long run will result in a greater good? Sure, though they'd have to atone.
However, "good" wizards who cast evil spells a "few times" in their life because of convenience or they like the spells is not by definition good but neutral. That's like claiming your a Red Sox fan but owning season tickets to the Yankees and only wearing New York sports wear.
You're combative tone and I'm not gonna play the game unless it is exactly how I want also doesn't lend much credit to your argument in the maturity department either. As someone who always rolls a character with Necromancy as their main form of magic I can understand the concern. Not going to win anyone to your cause though being the typical anonymous jerk on the internet however.
The ends justify the means is more of a neutral concept. "Good" character make the hard choices. Evil ones make the easy ones.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I see no reason why a Good Wizard can't cast Animate Dead or Create Undead a few times in their life while still staying good.Nope, but they can be used by good wizards. (How long they remain good is debatable)Correct me if I'm wrong. Animate dead and create undead are evil spells and therefore cannot be used by good clerics.But apparently I can't play a Neutral Good Necromancer in PFO.
Which is totally against Golarion canon, but still something within the game.
Likewise, in PFO if you are good and commit a heinous act while you are at +7500 good, the heinous act may take -3500 good alignment points, leaving you still as a good alignment. But if you cast it again before going back up to +7500 good, chances are your alignment will shift to neutral or evil.
It's possible to game the system and use undead a few times and remain good. But like the PnP rules, it is not a good act, and if you do it too many times, you will no longer be good.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I see no reason why a Good Wizard can't cast Animate Dead or Create Undead a few times in their life while still staying good.Nope, but they can be used by good wizards. (How long they remain good is debatable)Correct me if I'm wrong. Animate dead and create undead are evil spells and therefore cannot be used by good clerics.But apparently I can't play a Neutral Good Necromancer in PFO.
Which is totally against Golarion canon, but still something within the game.
I guess this remains to be seen, if the spells you weave have effect on your alignment. I guess a good wizard could beg for his life for a minute with heinous flag, if he is with good company he'll probably be spared.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Frodo and Aragorn are down, stabilized but barely alive. Gandalf is holding firm against the mountain troll at the door but the door is splintering and the spell cannot hold every splinter as it seperates from the door. Yet all about the ancient skeletons of dwarves still clutch their weapons and never had a chance to remove their armor before they fell all those years ago.
How can Gandalf save Frodo and his mission unless... No! It is unthinkable... yet it is the only solution present to him.
Finally in desperation Gandalf casts the spell he thought he would never use and the dwarf skeletons struggle up undead, readying their weapons as the door bursts from its hinges and the troll roars his defiance, lumbering a step into the room. Behind him myriad goblins chitter and leer, licking their dogslicers and shaking their raised spears.
Yet Gandalf gasps as he feels his alignment slipping, but the undead swing their weapons on the troll. They are individually battered back by that mountain of angry flesh, yet rise again to remorselessly strike.
Then Gimli, noticing Gandalf has a Heinous flag realizes Gandalf has fallen and is now the enemy! He readies his sharp axe and sneaks up behind the grey wizard, now ashen-faced with his sacrifice...
THEN WHAT HAPPENED!!!! Being you are such a literary tease...
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Goblin Squad Member
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Infernal healing refutes your evil spell claims. Even the pathfinder folks cannot agree that cast [evil] makes you Evil
It doesn't affect the Target's alignment, it doesn't say anything about not affecting the caster's alignment. Besides, as a granted spell from Asmodeus, it's not going to be an issue except for LN clerics of Asmodeus.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Funny that you quote official stuff, and still get it wrong.
Many of Pharasma's worshipers are those closely aligned with either burgeoning life or terminating death. These include midwives, grave diggers, and morticians. Her priests are typically clerics, diviners, and necromancers that choose not to create undead.Icyshadow, your own quote says necromancers that choose not to create undead.
Being a NG necromancer of Pharasma is not a problem, as long as you do not create undead. All the info from GW (and Paizo for that matter) is very clear that creating undead is evil, just as in PFRPG.
As has been pointed out by several people in several threads, being a necromancer is not evil (or heinous) - as long as you choose not to create undead or use other spells with the [evil] descriptor.
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Goblin Squad Member
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What about Necromancy spells like Magic Jar?
Would someone really able to take over an unconscious body and go to their bank in the nearest town and loot it all. Or trick their friends? Or all kinds of other evil things?
It would be really interesting if it was allowed.
What about putting people in soul-gems so they cant resurrect for a while?
These are the real questions about how hardcore this game will be.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Wow. This one game mechanic has guaranteed that I will be saving myself the cost in time and money of ever playing Pathfinder Online. I'm glad I stumbled upon this system mechanic now rather than after I had already shelled out the cash to play.
May I ask which "mechanic" has you so bothered?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Wow. This one game mechanic has guaranteed that I will be saving myself the cost in time and money of ever playing Pathfinder Online. I'm glad I stumbled upon this system mechanic now rather than after I had already shelled out the cash to play.
How fortunate for you, and for us.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I do like the Gallente comparison. EVE Online uses a stat called Drone Bandwidth to represent the force of drones any given ship can control. The PFO version might be Undead Control. Skeletons might have a Control Factor of 5, compared to a Control Factor of 15 for a ghast. If your character had an Undead Control rating of 20, you could control 4 skeletons, a skeleton and a ghast, or any other combination totaling 20 Undead Control points. Pretty elegant way to keep a relatively inexperienced caster from spending a week creating undead and raising an army. Of course, if an experienced character were to eventually raise their Control Undead rating to 150... Watch out!
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Goblin Squad Member
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Relying on reputation only removes the gods from Golarion.
It does not have to. You can still use Area of Concern and Domains, and ensure that your character adheres to those beliefs and practices.
Alignment is being used as a game mechanic, that is the problem. As a game mechanic is drastically limits role playing, which is why it is virtually unseen in 99% of RPGs and not in a single MMORPG that I have ever seen, including Dungeons and Dragons Online or Neverwinter Online.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Wait, so all Necromancers are Evil in Pathfinder Online? Did they seriously decide that's the way to go?
No, only those who create and use undead.
I'm going to add some more bold to a quote you yourself used earlier:
Funny that you quote official stuff, and still get it wrong.
Many of Pharasma's worshipers are those closely aligned with either burgeoning life or terminating death. These include midwives, grave diggers, and morticians. Her priests are typically clerics, diviners, and necromancers that choose not to create undead.I'm sorry, but either you're playing with some really bad houserules or then you don't know what you're talking about.
Then again, could just be both. I doubt it matters by this part, since you're probably the type who can't accept ever being wrong.
Notice how your own quote excludes necromancers who do choose to create undead? But how you chose to bold it in a way that almost looked like it wasn't saying what it actually said?
Surprised nobody's pointed that out yet. Especially with you making a big fuss about how someone else supposedly can "quote official stuff, and still get it wrong".
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm sorry, but either you're playing with some really bad houserules or then you don't know what you're talking about.
Then again, could just be both. I doubt it matters by this part, since you're probably the type who can't accept ever being wrong.
No need for this kind of talk. It is rude and does not make your opinion any more valuable.
The point is, this is Pathfinder Online, and not Pathfinder RPG. Not all of the PnP / TT rules or mechanics will translate directly to an MMO.
Not sure if you are aware, but there are no classes in PFO either. A player in PFO could very well have some of the abilities of a Necromancer, a few of a Monk, a few of a Rogue, and still a few more of three or four other "classes".
Think of PFO as being closely related to a Fantasy based, EVE Online, in a setting inspired by Pathfinder RPG.
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Think of PFO as being closely related to a Fantasy based, EVE Online, in a setting inspired by Pathfinder RPG.
I surely hope this isn't the case Bludd. First thing, that aren't advertizing the game like this. Second, only about 1/5 of the team that is actually working on it has any EVE programming experience.
I sure hope PFOL doesn't turn into Fantasy EVE, to be honest, there is almost nothing in EVE that strikes me as actually "fun" instead of chorelike. I guarantee 90% of the people involved in the kickstarter will be sorely dissapointed if all this turns out to be an EVE clone. I don't even really consider EVE a video game as much I consider it an alternative hobby for people who want to be corporate, emotionless dicks to everyone except the people who can kill them and take their stuff.
Also trying to talk about people opinions being more or less valuable than others is like comparing your personal experience to another person, if anything you are the one being rude repeatedly ramming your worldview down everyone elses throat.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Also trying to talk about people opinions being more or less valuable than others is like comparing your personal experience to another person, if anything you are the one being rude repeatedly ramming your worldview down everyone elses throat.
Wow, I defend you and I get this in return.
RIF: I did not write his opinion was less valuable. I wrote that his being rude does not make his opinion more valuable.
As for my world view being shoved down everyone's throat, not sure where that is coming from, but whatever floats your boat.
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Goblin Squad Member
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You can be a Necromancer, it just means you don't go raising the dead, you just study the Dark Arts so you can fight them head on.
As to raising the Undead ... maybe for each Undead you raise, you have to pay a fairly hefty component cost, the black onyx gems, and it also takes time.
Skeletal Undead are fast but relatively fragile, while Zombie Undead are slow but are walking walls of HP.
Perhaps the number of HD/Levels you have ties in with the Necromancy Skill/Badge, so you can animate X number of HD of Undead depending upon what level you are and how advanced your Necromancy 'Skill' is?
Without actually seeing the leveling mechanisms, let's try to take a page out of the Drone system in EvE.
You can pilot 1 drone per each rank your Drone skill advances, although more complex drones (specifically combat) tend to take additional skills stacked on top of that, meaning you can't roll in from day one, raise a field of corpses and declare yourself High King Skullplucker, Lord of Corpseapopolous.
So, for something like creating Undead, we could see ....
1) A long, complex ritual involving specific reagents, as well as the required corpses, and only as many Levels of 'Hit Dice' of corpses as you can control. Additional HD over that level might cause the spell to fail, or it might 'critically' fail, and instead raise every corpse, and you have no control over any of them!
2) The spell-slot required to animate the Undead in the first place is perma-locked so long as there is at least one Undead under your control, and possibly some other small penalty for mentally controlling all those corpses.
3) Once you lose control of an Undead, either to an evil Cleric yoinking them or some other method, you have to expend another spell or class ability to get them back, which could end up as two Evil Clerics playing 'grabbies' with a single group of undead and the Command Undead ability until one or the other runs out of charges and gets mobbed.
These might seem extreme, but consider that a Necromancer can theoretically field a small army of expendable soldiers who never tired, are immune to fear, confusion and most charm effects and possess immunities to cold, stunning and certain forms of physical damage. You let a Necromancer build up a decent enough army, he's untouchable by anyone but a well-built team of combatants who are going to have to wade through his undead army to get to him, as any player who is gonna run around with the Heinous Tag for a long enough period of time is gonna be smart about this.
Survival of the fittest and all that.
Still, a Settlement of Heinous Players, run by Necromancers, Blackguards, Evil Clerics and Assassins sounds like a fun "OH SHIT!" moment for the other Settlements to come across.
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Goblin Squad Member
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...Also trying to talk about people opinions being more or less valuable than others is like comparing your personal experience to another person, if anything you are the one being rude repeatedly ramming your worldview down everyone elses throat.
I should hope that you understand, Carb, that some opinions are indeed more valuable than others. Some are.
For that matter the life experience of some people is more profound, more wise, more knowledgeable than the life experience of others as well.
Truth is not subject to democratic vote. 50% of any large population has an IQ of 100 or less. A carpenter is better at carpentering than a milkmaid. This ideological cultural relativism that asserts that all opinions are equal is patently false. There are facts whether we like them or not.
It isn't elitism. Reality.
Where relativism in these matters tends to have at least a good argument is in asserting the values against which people measure 'valuable'.
The problem there is that some value-sets are less useful to civilization than others. Should we value civilization? Should we value order? Chaos? Good? Or are those things all of equal value? In Golarion, where each of those values is the domain of a deity it seems like they really would be. Out here in reality... well in the West we have pretty much decided to leave our hands off the question altogether, and this might be a problem. Some of us embrace deism while others reject it vehemently.
It poses serious questions for us all that some value dollars and others value their religious principles and others value 'love' or the objects of poetry and similar intangibles.
That does not make all opinions equal.
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While I agree in hindsight that ideas and actions can have value, opinions are personal self-world views, not facts and as such cannot be assigned to have an innate positive or negative value. That's the reason I used the term world-view, because I don't think its unfair to say that you are easily one of the most vocal and adamant members of the community, and you should understand that if the creative process is to take place, all ideas and opinions MUST be considered at first, if only to be discarded later. From what I see, our job is NOT to try to evaluate the validity, viability, and value of these ideas, not at this stage at least. We should be brainstorming, not criticizing each other for what they believe. Sniping at someones idea is infinitely easier than actually generating your own, and such behavior is abhorrent in polite discourse as I feel it should be considered as such here.
I think that some people of the community have taken this process of informal crowdforging too seriously, especially at this stage, and try to insist their opinions on others, the basic belief that "I know best". As you know NOBODY likes that, even if it was an attempt to defend them.
In this case I really only was intending to highlight the meaning of this. My goal here is to try and assure that I wasn't trying to attack you either, although the post does come off much more adversarial than I intended, probably out of a lack of sleep, so please accept my apologies for crossed and mixed messages.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@ Carbon D. Metric: My goal is not to offend but to converse with substance. My argument was about the subject not about you. Yes all ideas must be considered, but if you say something false I will do my best to point it out just as I hope to discover what I say that is false through your pointing my failings out to me.
You're not a victim. I don't have the power to silence you, and I would not want such power.
Opinions that align with facts are more valuable than those that do not. Do you agree?
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Goblin Squad Member
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@ Carbon
First, I accept your apology. It is often the case that the written word, especially in forums, comes off more harshly then was intended.
Secondly, I agree that opinions need to be voiced. That is of course the purpose of these message boards.
My argument was not that an opinion was stated, but that it was wrapped in ridicule. Opinions when made public are meant to be persuasive. However, when they are delivered rudely and followed up with ridicule, no matter how valid the basis of the opinion was it will be received with less value.
My main point in that post was this statement (directed at Icyshadow):
"The point is, this is Pathfinder Online, and not Pathfinder RPG. Not all of the PnP / TT rules or mechanics will translate directly to an MMO."
This is not an opinion, it is fact. I might wish it were possible to directly port the PFRPG over to an MMO format, but we all know that is not possible.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16
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I beleive there is a way to implement necromancy that captures the spirit of the pathfinder PnP and doesn't make an overpower character capable of soloing there way through the game. (concerns of GW I beleive)
In simple terms, make necromancers gallente (eve online reference, do the research).
make the summoned skeletons, zombies, etc drones.
[...snip excellent suggestions...]
So you can play a necro, but you sacrifice your direct damage, aoe spells, utility spells, etc for DoT/utility pets.
Good ideas Summersnow, and I hope we see something a lot like this. There's also no reason why this couldn't work for druids using summon nature's ally and arcanists using summon monster.
This is, I think, one of two uses that we might see for necromancy, in the sense of creating undead. This is the combat version. The other version we may see is undead serfs toiling in the fields, harvesting resources, and working in the mills and forges of an evil settlement.
Also, good catch upthread on the distinction between necromancy as a school of magic relating to death, and necromancy as the creation of undead, in Golarion lore. I can confirm that my understanding is that, in Golarion, undead are always evil, and their creation is always an evil act. Other D&D settings have had good liches, reformed vampires, and holy grave knights - but not Golarion. Undead are evil, but I'm thoroughly enjoying my LN necromancer in Carrion Crown.