Personally though, I never liked the "anime-riffic" efforts I saw in 4e and with Pathfinder's Ninja, Samurai, Monk etc classes. Just got too darned cartoony and WAY out of the mileu.
And as a side note, there REALLY needs to be more humor in game! The goblins booklet didn't do enough IMHO.
So, kawaii chibi ninja goblins won't work? /sadpandaface
No! Never! Gaaaah!
I hated kender with a passion as well. After a few bad experiences in games, any "kender" I see in game DIES NOW!!! Doesn't matter if I am running a Paladin or not, that thing has GOT to go. With extreme prejudice and a LOT of violence, no less.
Does it make me a bad person that as a GM I would enjoy watching a Kender murdering Paladin fall? (Granted it's kind of less murder and more assisted suicide the way some Kender tend to act xD)
I don't care. Kender give me massive headaches, literally.
I just want those little black holes with legs to DIE, no matter how much they lie to defend their larcenous little butts!
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For RotRL, I would definitely want to include ISWG. Stuff like the Cyphermage and Harrower prestige classes fits nicely with the RotRL flavor and it's not much better or worse than the core classes.
APG and UC do a lot to help the monk (archetypes) and rogue (ninja). You can just paint over the ninja: rename Ki into Cunning, replace shuriken with darts or something, and the rogue gets a little closer to the normal power level for classes.
I don't really like summoners, but the other APG classes are decent; so are the UC classes I think. I'm not sure about UM (Magus), haven't seen that in action yet.
On the whole I think APG/UC/UM are pretty balanced; Paizo has tried to go horizontal rather than vertical in power; new things instead of merely making existing things stronger. Many of the new spells aren't more powerful but do different things; and most of the must-have spells are still from the CRB.
Leadership can be tricky, it's a lot of power in one feat. But it does fill a nice niche in for example providing an NPC healer-cleric if nobody wants to play one, a crafting wizard buddy for the fighter (calling him Caddie might upset him), or even a mount that levels along the PC, enough to survive where normal horses wouldn't. If you can agree with your players on ways to keep the cohort from upstaging other players (no fighter cohort that makes the PC fighter obsolete) then give it a shot.
Crafting... it does two big things:
1) makes it cheaper to have the nice things you want. If a wizard ends up with a Longsword +1 he can sell it for 50% of value and then craft a Headband of Intelligence at 50% of price. With the right item feats it means you can trade in any item for another one without losing money; but the price you pay is a feat (PRECIOUS!) and time to craft.
2) guarantees you'll have access to the items you really want, instead of random items. As a wizard it can be frustrating to see the magical swords pile up. As a fighter focusing on swords it can be frustrating seeing the magical axes pile up. Crafting means you don't rely on the chances of a local town magic shop actually selling the things you want, or monster hoards coincidentally having the right weapons in them.
If you're opposed to those things, you should indeed ban crafting.
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As for flying at level 1: a small druid can ride a dire bat, pterodactyl, giant vulture or roc from level 1.
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I am about to start running Reign of Winter with my group. We rotate GM duties from campaign to campaign and our current game that is wrapping up (Kingmaker) has been a CRB only game. There have been a few spells allowed from the APG, but other then that most of our combined material has sat idle. With that, I have been mulling over what I will allow.
I'll first say that the restrictions in the KM game were instituted because we have a table of players that each have over 25 years of gaming under their belt. With that much time in the game, our group tends to come up with some really sick PC builds, Feat progressions, and the like. So the current DM decided to curtail all of that to lessen his load of adjusting things throughout the game.
So far I've decided that the CRB and APG are completely wide open. Anything referenced from the People of the North or RoW: Player's Guide is also allowed. I've given the green light on Gunslinger and expect to see that repurposed into the Spellslinger, which is fine. I'm encouraging my players to use these other resources since they have been forbidden for the last year and a half, but don't want to open them up for the players to use carte blanche.
It seems a waste to rule out so many resources. I mean, unless you want a very vanilla game, which is what our Kingmaker game has been (all core classes, no one took a PrCls or even dipped into anything else. We are about to take on the BBEG with a 16th level Cleric, Paladin, Wizard, and Druid...). For me, I hate to see the books just sitting there not being used. And after attending my first PFS event recently and seeing how much the Society allows, it seems ridiculous for me to limit the game to just the CRB.
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For RotRL, I would definitely want to include ISWG. Stuff like the Cyphermage and Harrower prestige classes fits nicely with the RotRL flavor and it's not much better or worse than the core classes.
My reason for getting rid of ISWG is because I know that if it is used at all, it will be for one thing, and one thing only.
Dervish Dance.
APG and UC do a lot to help the monk (archetypes) and rogue (ninja). You can just paint over the ninja: rename Ki into Cunning, replace shuriken with darts or something, and the rogue gets a little closer to the normal power level for classes.I don't really like summoners, but the other APG classes are decent; so are the UC classes I think. I'm not sure about UM (Magus), haven't seen that in action yet.
On the whole I think APG/UC/UM are pretty balanced; Paizo has tried to go horizontal rather than vertical in power; new things instead of merely making existing things stronger. Many of the new spells aren't more powerful but do different things; and most of the must-have spells are still from the CRB.
You have to understand. I'm running a table of SIX optimizers. I understand that Pazio has strives to keep power creep to a minimum, but it does happen. I'm looking for ways to avoid it.
Leadership can be tricky, it's a lot of power in one feat. But it does fill a nice niche in for example providing an NPC healer-cleric if nobody wants to play one, a crafting wizard buddy for the fighter (calling him Caddie might upset him), or even a mount that levels along the PC, enough to survive where normal horses wouldn't. If you can agree with your players on ways to keep the cohort from upstaging other players (no fighter cohort that makes the PC fighter obsolete) then give it a shot.
Again, I have six people, Leadership is just too much.
Crafting... it does two big things:
1) makes it cheaper to have the nice things you want. If a wizard ends up with a Longsword +1 he can sell it for 50% of value and then craft a Headband of Intelligence at 50% of price. With the right item feats it means you can trade in any item for another one without losing money; but the price you pay is a feat (PRECIOUS!) and time to craft.
2) guarantees you'll have access to the items you really want, instead of random items. As a wizard it can be frustrating to see the magical swords pile up. As a fighter focusing on swords it can be frustrating seeing the magical axes...
I'm not horribly against crafting, it's more something I'm just kicking around at the moment.
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Ah, here's your *actual* problem. What you want and what your players want conflicts with each other.You have to understand. I'm running a table of SIX optimizers. I understand that Pazio has strives to keep power creep to a minimum, but it does happen. I'm looking for ways to avoid it.
Well I don't want to take away everyone's fun outright. They LIKE optimizing, shoot, I do too for that matter.
But at the same time, I don't want to have to tweak the game to make things more challenging because of a party full of optimized characters.
It's more than possible to make a strong character without having a bunch of level dips and archetypes mucking things up.
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Just throw higher CR challengrs at them. The default CR system assumes 4 average PCs, if you party deviates from that the best thing you can do is accomodate. You have both more PCs than average and they optimize more than an usual player does? Dial up the challenge. There will be both the tension you seek and the thrill of a hard fought victory they"re after. A win-win scenario.
If you chose the 'restrict PCoptions' route, you'll end up with arguments on why are these things banned and the general feeling that this is a "no you can't" game, and that's rarely good for anybody.
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Just throw higher CR challengrs at them. The default CR system assumes 4 average PCs, if you party deviates from that the best thing you can do is accomodate. You have both more PCs than average and they optimize more than an usual player does? Dial up the challenge. There will be both the tension you seek and the thrill of a hard fought victory they"re after. A win-win scenario.
If you chose the 'restrict PCoptions' route, you'll end up with arguments on why are these things banned and the general feeling that this is a "no you can't" game, and that's rarely good for anybody.
There's also adjusting enemy tactics and throwing in obstacles and hazards. Those make a huge difference in fights.
Weather. Snowstorms are the bane of everyone's existence. Forces casters to make concentration checks, ranged characters can't see, and melee can't charge. It can turn a normal fight with a creature into a true fight for survival. Wind and rain are more forgiving and still good. Difficult terrain, cover, fights that involve platforming, darkness, fighting underwater... use those to your advantage to make fights more lethal without having to ban things. You'll find that players will start grabbing feats to combat situations like that, instead of following a 20 Level Optimization Plan.
For the majority of my Pathfinder career we only allowed CRB and some of the APG. With a restriction on Item creation and no leadership. This worked out very well and still allowed for some very fun role play and gaming.
Recently, I've opened up the game to include CRB, APG, the majority of Spells from UM, and UC feats and Archetypes. This has resulted in a noticeable level of Powercreep (not game breaking but still) and the players in my game have made talk of restricting what feats should be allowed from UC.
The general feeling is that the style feats (boar, dragon, etc) should be limited to monk only... since many at my table feel the monk should have had access to them since the beginning. That said no one at my table ever plays a monk but me and I'm DMing.
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I went through a lot of the same decisions when I was setting up to run RotRL for a large (and ever-growing) party. My choices:
1) 15-point build.
2) Medium (not fast) XP advancement track.
Those were the biggies. A 15-point build keeps the initial power level under control, and running on the medium advancement track keeps the party 1-2 levels behind the nominal levels in the book, which compensates for a 6-member party. In your case - six optimisers - I'd try hard to keep it at the full two levels, and consider increasing the CR of some encounters.
I didn't ban books outright, but I did say that anything outside CRB/APG had to get GM approval. I didn't allow summoners, and restricted animal companions (both choice of companion and use in combat).
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Regarding item crafting and RotRL.
I am currently playing in this AP. It is light on treasure. I am playing a weapon crafting fighter/wizard, and have been doing extensive crafting for the party. We are still at half the WBL table for our 7th-level characters. Our GM is super generous when it comes to crafting and giving us downtime, and he has even added treasure to the adventure. This AP does not have an abundance of items. We have even been developing our characters around weapons that we find instead of selling them and saving for weapons that we want, because there is such a scarcity.
Something to keep in mind if you ban item crafting.
Edit: I just saw that you have SIX players. That exacerbates the poverty problem.
Did you ever mention which PDF you wanted?
just go core let players run thing by you form apg, umc, and umm, do not do 15 point buy go with 20 and put a limit to the amount you can drop a stat by and how may or you will see fighter with no int wis or cha to speak of just to have the highs str dex and con they can
if they bring you something form a book you do not like just say no don't even give a reason
For ROTRL Anniversary, I'd probably go CRB + APG and ISWG. Though I dig core only, ISWG is a must for stuff set in Golarion, and some of the NPCs are built using APG stuff.
UC, on the other hand, is an abomination (though I've heard many times that it brings monks up to par, the ninja and some of the archery feats are just problematic ime).
i have had players drop to a 5 after his race was pick with 2 more 7s and then take old dropping to a 3 in str all to get his wiz the highest int and cha he could this was the worst cast
after all the slam head in to table i could take i went back to rolling stats seem like the lesser of the two evils
may try it again down the road now that most of these people don't are not in the group anymore
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i have had players drop to a 5 after his race was pick with 2 more 7s and then take old dropping to a 3 in str all to get his wiz the highest int and cha he could this was the worst cast
after all the slam head in to table i could take i went back to rolling stats seem like the lesser of the two evils
may try it again down the road now that most of these people don't are not in the group anymore
I have a rule that you cannot use race penalties to dump a stat below 7 and I DEFINITELY do not let players create a character with age penalties. I also require really good justification for more than 1 dump stat.
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The recommendation of a 15 point buy is because that is supposedly what the PFRPG adventure paths are designed for - a 4-character party of 15-point characters.
A 20-point buy for a 6-character party would risk being a cakewalk even for non-optimised characters (heck, my group of either 5 or 6 15-point characters aren't having too much trouble with most of the encounters); I doubt whether such a party built by skillful optimisers would find the AP as written sufficiently challenging.
i let it go he die first game problem solved and i was not even trying to kill him
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The recommendation of a 15 point buy is because that is supposedly what the PFRPG adventure paths are designed for - a 4-character party of 15-point characters.
A 20-point buy for a 6-character party would risk being a cakewalk even for non-optimised characters (heck, my group of either 5 or 6 15-point characters aren't having too much trouble with most of the encounters); I doubt whether such a party built by skillful optimisers would find the AP as written sufficiently challenging.
Well, we've always done a 20 point buy, six man table. It's been this way for years. I don't think there is a willingness to change that.
The newcomer in this equation is the books outside the CRB.
wow what rolling rule are you using. 2 18
well roll 4d6 re roll 1
or 4d6 roll 3 sets pick the one you want
ive never actually done it for a campaign, but i would like to see how heroic works out
either doing a d12+6 or 2d6+6
i agree that point-buy systems basically force you to min-max
i don't think i have ever seen any one get 2 18 rolling stats...
i have seen some really good rolls and some get close
and i've been playing for 11year giver take that being said i know all 18s are possible but never seen that before too
have see some roll to the point they don't even have a 10 in a stat needless to say they got to re roll
i want you guys luck for my group we had the fighter just last night roll a nat 1 on his fort at level 8 to save vs blindness
we had the healer get fall a sleep do to drow poison
and the ninja/monk get hit wit bestow cures
the fight took so long that the 5 level drow clerc ran out of spells and use a peal of power + her race ability before leaving the party to be killed by a undead troll
o and the bard was behead
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The thing I don't really like about point-buy is that it benefits SAD classes far more than it does MAD classes. I have a friend who is quotes as saying "I will burn every other stat to the ground if it means having a 20 intelligence on my wizard"
Meanwhile, I'm trying to figure out how to make a cleric or monk and hating my life.
on the other hand, I hate the random nature of rolled stats, because you invariably either end up with characters that are too ungodly powerful or weak, OR you let them roll so many sets that they might as well just pick their stats.
maybe 8+d10?
or 10 + 2d4 which sounds like the best odds for not having bad stats
then again, negating the ability to have negative stats may be unattractive to some DMs
that the the truth, but it kills me when people that do that with wiz
they real are shooting them self in the foot
my wiz before race want a 16 dex 14 con and 16 int and if i have a 18 it go in to the dex then i pick a race normal one that up dex or int
the way i see it ray are some of the best spell but you need to hit with them + my crossbow shot are deadly
i don't take spells that do nothing if the target make the dc save so i don't need a high int
if a spells not need i fire my cross bow
i have see the 10+2d4 you get a lot of 18s with it to easy to roll a 4 on a d4
i know i made a dm mad using the spell snapdragon-fireworks by rolling 4 every time i used it wich was like 10 time in a roll
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I have a friend who is quotes as saying "I will burn every other stat to the ground if it means having a 20 intelligence on my wizard"I'm sure that +1 to his save DCs will be worth the cost of the raise dead spells he will need.
Hahaha, he was the one who taught me how to play wizards. I asked him about that, and his response was "If you died, you did something wrong. A good wizard doesn't give his enemies the chance"
A bit silly, but I can appreciate the incredible arrogance, it's a trait needed to play wizard right.
yes burn your con because the archer hiding in the trees is not going to shot the man in robes with the magic staff first. nat 20 then roll max damage killing him
burn that str you now need some one to care you spell book and gear just not to be in heavy load
burn the wis so the vampire can take control of you killing the party
burn the dex so you cant hit with a ray
burn the cha then try to buy all your supple at a store when they carge you 10% more on ever thing
all stat have there use
i'm just poking fun