What books would you allow to offer freedom while avoiding power creep?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Elamdri wrote:
Do not question Schrodinger's Wizard!

You can't question him because you can never perceive him.


lol OK guys i will not question the great and power full oz's any more

Silver Crusade

TriOmegaZero wrote:
Elamdri wrote:
Do not question Schrodinger's Wizard!
You can't question him because you can never perceive him.

That's because he's invisible, hiding behind full cover, in deeper darkness.


Why don't you just have them build the characters the way they want and sit down with them afterwards and approve the characters and confirm the ways that the numbers and abilities will work?


TriOmegaZero wrote:
Elamdri wrote:
I have a friend who is quotes as saying "I will burn every other stat to the ground if it means having a 20 intelligence on my wizard"
I'm sure that +1 to his save DCs will be worth the cost of the raise dead spells he will need.

Yeah because you dump con wisdom and dex RIGHT?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
CWheezy wrote:
Yeah because you dump con wisdom and dex RIGHT?

I'm sure all of that helps a lot when you're immobilized due to too much Str drain.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
CWheezy wrote:
Yeah because you dump con wisdom and dex RIGHT?
I'm sure all of that helps a lot when you're immobilized due to too much Str damage.

You have to dump strength to get 20 in a stat RIGHT?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I'm sure whoever you are actually talking to will get around to answering you someday.

Silver Crusade

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Fight nice.

Silver Crusade

If you want to have "balance" that favors MAD classes, just build an array you a happy with and give it to everyone.

When it comes to GMing: It is better to give than to take away.

By this, I mean, you are better off saying "Core plus oracles and alchemists," instead of saying "no summoners!"

If you don't want people to dump stats, give them 15-point buy and a bonus +2 to any stat they want if all of their stats are 10 or higher. (Max 18 before racial bonuses)

If you think everyone should have a profession, give them 1 bonus skill point at first level that must be spent on Profession.

If you are playing in a campaign where it would be nice to have mostly humans, give a bonus trait or extra starting wealth or even an extra skill point at first level to humans.

The trick is giving options and making the ones you prefer the players to take to be more attractive.


smart like a fox you are


The Fox wrote:

If you want to have "balance" that favors MAD classes, just build an array you a happy with and give it to everyone.

When it comes to GMing: It is better to give than to take away.

By this, I mean, you are better off saying "Core plus oracles and alchemists," instead of saying "no summoners!"

If you don't want people to dump stats, give them 15-point buy and a bonus +2 to any stat they want if all of their stats are 10 or higher. (Max 18 before racial bonuses)

If you think everyone should have a profession, give them 1 bonus skill point at first level that must be spent on Profession.

If you are playing in a campaign where it would be nice to have mostly humans, give a bonus trait or extra starting wealth or even an extra skill point at first level to humans.

The trick is giving options and making the ones you prefer the players to take to be more attractive.

true enough.

though the bonus shouldn't be too excessive. but it should be relevant at all levels.

if you didn't want 15 point buy PCs dumping stats. try giving the guy with nothing below 10 or above 15 (after modifiers), +2 to all stats.


im about to GM a campaign where ive decided that im going to do both a point buy and a roll game

confused? heres how im doing it:

characters roll stats as normal (4d6, drop lowest)

i check all the stats and determine how many "points" they have based on their rolls

i give points to all the players who have less than whoever rolled the highest point total

from there they can lower stats from where they are to gain extra points, or put the points i give them into their stats

this way everyone's power level is equal, and hopefully they dont have to have any true dumped stats

its an experiment but im hoping for the best


PDF sent! Hope you enjoy it. The way they use arcane bonds is really cool.

Liberty's Edge

I allow all books, but reserve approval for character concepts at the beginning and ask my players to run things by me that they intend to do that may be unusual beforehand, as I don't like stopping the game for rules checks. If something seems broken, we discuss it and find a solution. Rarely is the solution a flat "No" but I also game with very reasonable people.

Works fine, but obviously it wouldn't work for PFS or anything like that.


Read perhaps half of posts, then gave up. LOL. My thoughts would be to also include banning archetypes, traits, and your previous mentioned feats/ classes. I found that d&d/ PF start to gain power creep thru too many options that a GM has to limit in order to stay on top of the issues in a game before they start.

Also perhaps do 20 point but with limited or no stat sell down. I did 15 point buy with sell down or 18 points with a predefined stat array with decent well rounded stats. Most people accepted those 2 options without a big complaint. Races were my own created, so I don't have much input on that.

No archetypes and no traits seem odd and people hated it. But, not nearly the amount of ths power creep issues.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Cheapy wrote:

PDF sent! Hope you enjoy it. The way they use arcane bonds is really cool.

Which one did you send him cheapy?

By the way op I strongly recommend you consider cheapy's recommendation. Super Genius games material freely available at my table, I dont even do that for the core rulebook. The main reason? Everything that comes out of there at least gets a visual pass from a single person, who happys to be probably one of the best in the business at frustrating my inner munchkin.

Seriously there is no power creap in those products, and one of them lets you ride a friggan dragon (take a look at the actual stats the dragon gets and its akin to the more powerful animal companions, and if you want the best dragon to be able to act in a round you have to give up your character actions, thus putting it under the druid in power). Those base classes especially are great for offering a wealth of options that are self contained and if anything a little low on the power scale that are often very interesting to play, and scratch an itch that isnt by paizo products (with a few excpetions where the sgg product came out first and paizo release something like it later on).


The Hellion, as requested.

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