Aliens: Colonial Marines - What actually happened?


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Well it hit us who bought it. Rather devastating really to the entire franchise as the game is canon (I wish it wasn't).

I looked over this reaction:
What the hell happened to Aliens: Colonial Marines

What do you think caused this horrendous difference between the Demo and the real game?

Some of my thoughts:
1. Gearbox is know for cartoon/comic-book-like video games not focusing on the realism. Could this recent fame caused them to trash the horror aspect?
2. We had some good views blocked by debris. Boarderlands 1 was heavily criticized for invisible walls, so perhaps they tried to improperly fix this?
3. Could the recent NRA's name drop as video-games as culprits for violence, coupled with human heavy target game cause the reduction in realism as well?

__________________________

These things still don't excuse:
1. The bait and switch we got.
2. The HORRIFIC storyline that is now canon!! OMDFG!

All else I can say right now is I feel like the game was just Fan Bait and I fell for it, hard.


In all honesty the story that is supposed to be canon but yet seems to destroy existing canon is more horrifying that the xenos in the game!


Game over, man! Game over!


....Sigh


"nuke them from orbit; it's the only way to be sure"

hum, apparently not...

With that being said, I can accept divergence from a movie to a game, especially in a shooter where the player is expected to, well, shoot! Obviously there will be aliens all over the place, the game needs stuff to shoot at.

I draw a similar parallel with movies adapted from books. Of course Tom Bombadil is not going to be in the movie, and Elves will show-up to help Rohan even if it goes against the spirit of the manuscript; but these are different medias with different means to convey different types of entertainment...

I'm still sad that they apparently dropped the ball so bad however.

Liberty's Edge

Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:


Some of my thoughts:
1. Gearbox is know for cartoon/comic-book-like video games not focusing on the realism. Could this recent fame caused them to trash the horror aspect?
2. We had some good views blocked by debris. Boarderlands 1 was heavily criticized for invisible walls, so perhaps they tried to improperly fix this?
3. Could the recent NRA's name drop as video-games as culprits for violence, coupled with human heavy target game cause the reduction in realism as well?

Well for number 1, long before Borderlands came out Gearbox's big game series was Brothers in Arms - a very realistic World War II tactical shooter. So I don't think switching to the Aliens horror/action franchise (Aliens will always be more of an action movie than a horror movie to me), would have tripped them up so much. In fact I was hoping Colonial Marines would have been a marriage of Brothers in Arms and Aliens. Instead we got...well...this.

Your other two points I don't really have anything to add to, except I really hope they didn't bow to any kind of pressure from the NRA to tone down the amount of violence in a M rated game - esp from a company who just put out the hyper violent Borderlands 2.

My take on the whole fiasco?

There are several reports of current and former Gearbox employees taking to Reddit and other places saying Gearbox just laid down the foundation, got the ball rolling so to speak and passed the game over to another developer called TimeGate. All TimeGate had to do was follow the guidelines Gearbox laid out and BAM - instant hit. But, according to the "inside source" TimeGate threw out a lot of Gearbox's work and made their own stuff, so when Gearbox got the game back they were all "WTF is this crap?" and started over themselves to try to salvage their original vision in the six months they had before Sega went super nova over yet another delay of a game that was announced 6 years ago.

Now, personally, I can see this happening. It explains a lot to me. That game demo from E3 2012 that looked so awesome? I believe that was Gearbox's original work that they sent to TimeGate to demonstrate the kind of game they wanted. Now, the fact that Gearbox tried to play it off as actual game play (complete with button prompts) is completely BS.

But I also have a hard time believing that Gearbox never checked on TimeGate's progress. Never caught that the majority of the assets they sent for their game was thrown out and were caught completely off guard by a sub-par game that they had to scramble to salvage. I don't know, I just don't buy it.

In the end we'll never know. Gearbox will survive - they made Borderlands. They have two hits on their rep with this and Duke Nukem, but they'll survive and in the meantime...it looks like a decent Aliens game is a far flung fantasy.

But you never know - I mean Batman finally got a couple of super awesome games.


I wouldn't put too much store by the 'canon' thing. The ALIENS canon/continuity is a total mess, as evidenced by Ridley Scott, when he made PROMETHEUS, calmly throwing two entire, multi-million-dollar-budgeted movies (the AvP films) out of canon with no regard for fans of those movies. He's also said that he does not consider ALIEN 3 or ALIEN: RESURRECTION canon either (though he hasn't done anything in PROMETHEUS to render them impossible, yet).

CM being canon or not will only become important if anyone ever wants to make a post-RESURRECTION movie, and given that that would be set 200 years later, it probably wouldn't matter. CM is also so full of total nonsense (note: buildings standing yards away from a multi-megaton nuclear blast would be atomised, not left intact enough for people to walk around in safely) that I can't see how anyone would treat it as canon, regardless of the official word of the studio.


Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:
....Sigh

You kinda walked into that one.

Shadow Lodge

Hmmm, a licensed game is crap? Say it ain't so!


Werthead wrote:

I wouldn't put too much store by the 'canon' thing. The ALIENS canon/continuity is a total mess, as evidenced by Ridley Scott, when he made PROMETHEUS, calmly throwing two entire, multi-million-dollar-budgeted movies (the AvP films) out of canon with no regard for fans of those movies. He's also said that he does not consider ALIEN 3 or ALIEN: RESURRECTION canon either (though he hasn't done anything in PROMETHEUS to render them impossible, yet).

CM being canon or not will only become important if anyone ever wants to make a post-RESURRECTION movie, and given that that would be set 200 years later, it probably wouldn't matter. CM is also so full of total nonsense (note: buildings standing yards away from a multi-megaton nuclear blast would be atomised, not left intact enough for people to walk around in safely) that I can't see how anyone would treat it as canon, regardless of the official word of the studio.

I am going to avoid getting into a nerd battle with you on this one.


Kthulhu wrote:
Hmmm, a licensed game is crap? Say it ain't so!

After all was over, the thing turned into another Movie Video-Game... T_T


Quote:
Hmmm, a licensed game is crap? Say it ain't so!

To be fair, there's been a few good ones over the years. The first two ALIENS VS PREDATOR games from the late 1990s were excellent (the 2010 one, not so much, although it seems to be getting praised a lot more in the wake of the CM disaster). The recent GAME OF THRONES RPG had an excellent storyline (though the dialogue and gameplay was a bit meh). The TRANSFORMERS CYBERTRON games were both very good. The recent WH40K games have all been very good. There have been many excellent STAR WARS games (and a fair few duff ones as well).

Especially given it wasn't tied to any particular film or event and given the time it had to be made (being rushed to be out for the movie/TV show/whatever is usually the reason tie-in games suck), COLONIAL MARINES should have been excellent. It's even more galling that Obsidian's very impressive-looking ALIENS RPG was canned to make room for it.


At THIS point, all I can say is I hope the game gets its canon status revoked due to the horrible situation, and maybe there will be another attempt sometime latter down the road.


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From what I hear, marketing departments essentially kill games. I wouldn't be surprised if suits from Fox bungled up the whole process, and forced terrible decisions. "We need to really sell the aliens. Turn up the lights so they can see our trademarked image!"

"We need to cater to fanboys. Add more mech segments."

"Why is this programming budget so high? We have margins to meet, people. We're cutting from somewhere. What isn't done yet? AI? Axe it."


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I knew in the beginning when the guy

Spoiler:
went in to the umbilical and detonated that grenade
that it wasn't going to have the strongest storyline.


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With this game and the awful Prometheus movie, I think it's safe to state that the Alien franchise is officially dead.


Maerimydra wrote:
With this game and the awful Prometheus movie, I think it's safe to state that the Alien franchise is officially dead.

I like MOST of that movie, except for the one actual plot hole.


Kryzbyn wrote:
I knew in the beginning when the guy ** spoiler omitted ** that it wasn't going to have the strongest storyline.

Yes, as did I very much so, but still you don't expect something canon to be THAT bad.


Shah Jahan the King of Kings wrote:

From what I hear, marketing departments essentially kill games. I wouldn't be surprised if suits from Fox bungled up the whole process, and forced terrible decisions. "We need to really sell the aliens. Turn up the lights so they can see our trademarked image!"

"We need to cater to fanboys. Add more mech segments."

"Why is this programming budget so high? We have margins to meet, people. We're cutting from somewhere. What isn't done yet? AI? Axe it."

I read the link about that. Basically it claims that BL2 took priority so the contracted the thing out due to SEGA's demands on schedule. They told this contractor what to do, but instead they started almost all over again from scratch instead, and produced a very poor copy. Once BL2 was done they shifted focus back to A:CM and was terrified with that was done and needed to be done, but SEGA wouldn't allow any more extensions since they let the beans out of the bag too early, and we got what Gearbox could salvage.


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Werthead wrote:

I wouldn't put too much store by the 'canon' thing. The ALIENS canon/continuity is a total mess, as evidenced by Ridley Scott, when he made PROMETHEUS, calmly throwing two entire, multi-million-dollar-budgeted movies (the AvP films) out of canon with no regard for fans of those movies. He's also said that he does not consider ALIEN 3 or ALIEN: RESURRECTION canon either (though he hasn't done anything in PROMETHEUS to render them impossible, yet).

Firstly, the AVP movies could still take place in canon at least as well as anything else (if you MUST have them in it - my understanding is they were NEVER supposed to be, but were stand-alones). Prometheus' events take place in secret and separately, as (supposedly) do the events in AVP. And Prometheus takes place on a different planet than Alien.

Secondly, the AVP movies were crap that were never meant as canon.

Thirdly, the second AVP movie already destroyed the timeline by creating an Earthbound fiasco that HAD to have been reported worldwide if it really happened, completely destroying Ripley's testimony in Aliens that they had set down on LV426 and encountered a lifeform "never before encountered..." and rendering the mystery and fear from encountering such creatures and such alien environments completely null.

Fourthy, the AVP movies were crap that were never meant as canon.

Fifthly, Prometheus is NOT a true sequel, as testified-to by the FILMMAKERS themselves.

Sixthy, the AVP movies were money-grubbing fanboy crap that were never meant as canon.

Seventhly, Alien, Aliens, Alien3 and Resurrection already have big fat plot problems and continuity issues by themselves (though I'd rather be chained in a room watching the worst of them on a continuous loop for the rest of my life than have to sit through Requiem again.)

Eighthly, the AVP movies were money-grubbing fanboy crap from one of the worst filmmakers alive right now (the piss-poor Paul Anderson, not the good one) that were never meant as canon.


Amen. :)


It's stuff like this that sours me towards continuity in general.

Silver Crusade

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Eh, the only AvP that matters to me continuity-wise involves an Asian woman going full-blown Predator. :)

Was not that enthusiastic about the direction the AvP movies took

Shadow Lodge RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

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I've been ignoring official Aliens "canon" ever since they killed Hicks and Newt in Alien 3 (and that especially includes the AvP films).

Ignoring a game I probably won't even bother to play should be no skin off my back at all.

Silver Crusade

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Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:

I've been ignoring official Aliens "canon" ever since they killed Hicks and Newt in Alien 3 (and that especially includes the AvP films).

Ignoring a game I probably won't even bother to play should be no skin off my back at all.

Hell, I actually liked most of Alien 3 and I'm right there with you.


Mikaze wrote:
Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:

I've been ignoring official Aliens "canon" ever since they killed Hicks and Newt in Alien 3 (and that especially includes the AvP films).

Ignoring a game I probably won't even bother to play should be no skin off my back at all.

Hell, I actually liked most of Alien 3 and I'm right there with you.

I never understood what was wrong with Alien 3. I like this movie!

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:

I've been ignoring official Aliens "canon" ever since they killed Hicks and Newt in Alien 3 (and that especially includes the AvP films).

Ignoring a game I probably won't even bother to play should be no skin off my back at all.

Hicks bought it in the second movie, no? As to Newt, I understand why it was done, they didn't want a kid element/sidekick to soften the edges of the setting or plot for the third movie.


IF the game was cannon, it did bring to light ONE aspect of the 2nd movie we had not thought of yet. The queen from Aliens didn't bring an egg with her, she brought an infant queen with her. While they slept it grew-up and infested the ship, and that is how two face-huggers were actually what caused the events of Alien 3. Since the events were then known by the company, they sent the ship back to LV426, to contain and maintain the secret of the xeno's existence. Thus explaining what we saw at the start of the Video game. The corporation was using the ship as a breeding ground, and obviously lost control, all too predictably.

Prometheus makes perfect sense to me.

We don't know WHEN they finished the Xeno's could have been thousands if not hundreds of thousands of years ago. Thus technically AVP movies could still happen.

The ships we saw were living archives of various steps of the development of the Xeno's you had the species they were messing with stored with the chemical they exposed them with in the next step all in the same container. We do this sort of thing in 3D animation all the time when we make a model. This explains the mural dedicated to the found end result.

I could go on and on, if you want.

The only real plot hole I found was the inconsistency of Elizabeth Shaw's surgery after effects.


Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:


Prometheus makes perfect sense to me.

Is that what you choose you believe? ;)


Maerimydra wrote:
Mikaze wrote:
Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:

I've been ignoring official Aliens "canon" ever since they killed Hicks and Newt in Alien 3 (and that especially includes the AvP films).

Ignoring a game I probably won't even bother to play should be no skin off my back at all.

Hell, I actually liked most of Alien 3 and I'm right there with you.
I never understood what was wrong with Alien 3. I like this movie!

Same here! I'm a big fan of Alien 3. I thought killing Newt and Hicks off actually made a lot of sense, story-wise. It was a bold move, and added a heavy amount of despair and atmosphere to the movie. Newt and Hicks served their "purpose;" they were there to guide and shape Ripley through the events of Aliens. Newt became Ripley's surrogate daughter, and Hicks helped give her the confidence and 5 minutes of training she needed to grab a gun and face down the monsters.

When I first saw Alien 3, sure, I was disappointed those characters died. I'm a big fan of Micheal Beihn. But, after it was all said and done, I think Alien 3 would have been a much lighter, less intense movie had those characters lived.

As far as Colonial Marines goes? My opinion, is that Gearbox took on the contract 6 years ago with high hopes. Borderlands becomes a knockout hit, so they devote all their efforts towards that franchise and just sit on the Aliens project and let it rot. Sega asks several times where their Aliens game is, Gearbox stall, and asks for more time extensions. They used up all the extra time Sega gave them to polish up Borderlands 2 and it's DLC.

Sega gets angry, threatens litigation, and Gearbox just shuffles Aliens off to a cheap, no-name developer to slap it together, get it just-done-enough to get gold certified, fulfill their contract with Sega and get it off their plate.

It's like hiring a construction crew to build your house, and they waste tons of time working on other, more expensive houses. When you come asking where your house is, they just grab a shotty bunch of cheap labor to slap it together real quick to shut you up.

I've played Borderlands 2; it's an incredible game. It's obvious that that's where the time and money went.


Slaunyeh wrote:
Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:


Prometheus makes perfect sense to me.
Is that what you choose you believe? ;)

What problems do you have? What holes are there?

I found this one explains it rather well with the exception I noted before.

Prometheus Actually Explained


I just watched Prometheus again this past weekend, and I really enjoyed it. It left some things needing to be explained, but there's a sequel in the works, so this movie was not intended to lead directly into the movie Alien.


Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:

IF the game was cannon, it did bring to light ONE aspect of the 2nd movie we had not thought of yet. The queen from Aliens didn't bring an egg with her, she brought an infant queen with her. While they slept it grew-up and infested the ship, and that is how two face-huggers were actually what caused the events of Alien 3. Since the events were then known by the company, they sent the ship back to LV426, to contain and maintain the secret of the xeno's existence. Thus explaining what we saw at the start of the Video game. The corporation was using the ship as a breeding ground, and obviously lost control, all too predictably.

Prometheus makes perfect sense to me.

We don't know WHEN they finished the Xeno's could have been thousands if not hundreds of thousands of years ago. Thus technically AVP movies could still happen.

The ships we saw were living archives of various steps of the development of the Xeno's you had the species they were messing with stored with the chemical they exposed them with in the next step all in the same container. We do this sort of thing in 3D animation all the time when we make a model. This explains the mural dedicated to the found end result.

I could go on and on, if you want.

The only real plot hole I found was the inconsistency of Elizabeth Shaw's surgery after effects.

I may disagree with you elsewhere, but this is brilliant.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Mikaze wrote:

Eh, the only AvP that matters to me continuity-wise involves an Asian woman going full-blown Predator. :)

Was not that enthusiastic about the direction the AvP movies took

Those comics were amazing.


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LazarX wrote:
Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:

I've been ignoring official Aliens "canon" ever since they killed Hicks and Newt in Alien 3 (and that especially includes the AvP films).

Ignoring a game I probably won't even bother to play should be no skin off my back at all.

Hicks bought it in the second movie, no? As to Newt, I understand why it was done, they didn't want a kid element/sidekick to soften the edges of the setting or plot for the third movie.

They probably just didn't want the WRONGNESS of having a little girl with a bunch of inmates...


Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:

I've been ignoring official Aliens "canon" ever since they killed Hicks and Newt in Alien 3 (and that especially includes the AvP films).

Ignoring a game I probably won't even bother to play should be no skin off my back at all.

Hicks bought it in the second movie, no? As to Newt, I understand why it was done, they didn't want a kid element/sidekick to soften the edges of the setting or plot for the third movie.
They probably just didn't want the WRONGNESS of having a little girl with a bunch of inmates...

Yeah, there could have been an entire film with a whole different plot just having Newt, Hicks, and Ripley in the prison colony, without even having an Alien involved. Would've cluttered up the plot way too much. Form what I understand from the constant script revisions, major streamlining was necessary. Simpler is better.


As of yet, the biggest PLOT HOLE I have found in the game, not saying there are not others, is the fact that the PLANET BREAKING nuclear explosion didn't destroy the place entirely. While a cheep explanation, probably there just to allow the player to re-live the scenes of Aliens, one could say that special precaution built into the establishment for just sort of an occasion saved it. While week, and not hinted at all in this POS of a game, that is all I can think of right now.

P.S.
However I can't explain Alien Resurrection with this game being canon.


I can't explain Alien: Resurrection, period. Oh, yeah I can; cash grab.

That movie had so much potential. The director is known for making dark, creepy films. Somehow we got this schlocky, popcorn action flick riddled with sight-gags and one-liners. WTH.


Josh M. wrote:

I can't explain Alien: Resurrection, period. Oh, yeah I can; cash grab.

That movie had so much potential. The director is known for making dark, creepy films. Somehow we got this schlocky, popcorn action flick riddled with sight-gags and one-liners. WTH.

I guess the game could still result in a situation making Resurrection needed, it is apparent that two factors made possible, while flimsy.

P.S. My guess, Engineer manufactured virus we will see in the next game.

1) Xenos have an innate genetic assimilation properties from their host to make them more adaptable no matter the environment they are unleashed on.

2) They have a massive genetic memory capability.

So this genetic assimilation mixed with their genetic memory, making cloning only one impossible, but apparently, as what is explained in the game, the egg spreads through out the entire body like a cancer effecting the entire body. I guess in an odd sense maybe the Xenos development somehow actually has a memory absorbing nature in it, something a-kin to invasion of the body snatchers?
P.S.: Maybe that is what they naturally can do any way! OMG! and we just don't know it because their brains don't function like ours and instincts overrides the drone Xeno's memories.

Again a stretch, but hey anything to make a buck.

Shadow Lodge RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

Maerimydra wrote:
Mikaze wrote:
Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:

I've been ignoring official Aliens "canon" ever since they killed Hicks and Newt in Alien 3 (and that especially includes the AvP films).

Ignoring a game I probably won't even bother to play should be no skin off my back at all.

Hell, I actually liked most of Alien 3 and I'm right there with you.
I never understood what was wrong with Alien 3. I like this movie!

It wasn't a bad movie (in fact it's a pretty good movie in a lot of ways).

It was just a bad sequel. It obliterates all the dramatic tension of the last act of Aliens. Same problem I had with Terminator 3 (although that movie was less good on its own merits).


Josh M. wrote:

I can't explain Alien: Resurrection, period. Oh, yeah I can; cash grab.

That movie had so much potential. The director is known for making dark, creepy films. Somehow we got this schlocky, popcorn action flick riddled with sight-gags and one-liners. WTH.

Alien: Resurrection was no more a cash grab than Prometheus.


Maerimydra wrote:
Josh M. wrote:

I can't explain Alien: Resurrection, period. Oh, yeah I can; cash grab.

That movie had so much potential. The director is known for making dark, creepy films. Somehow we got this schlocky, popcorn action flick riddled with sight-gags and one-liners. WTH.

Alien: Resurrection was no more a cash grab than Prometheus.

I disagree. Prometheus at least attempts to go back and try and salvage what's left of the franchise and take it into a different direction. I've been a fan since the first movie; I've always wanted to know the story behind "The Engineers/Space Jockey" and was very pleased to see that a movie would dig into it.

It was very satisfying seeing that Ridley Scott, the director of the original film, was head of the project as well. This wasn't outsourced to some new, young, cheap director, this was the original guy who brought us the Alien films in the first place. No, he's not the best director in the world, but seeing him attached to the film gave it a much more genuine feel then several of the previous films in the franchise.

With the 3-hit combo of bad alien films (Resurrection, AVP 1 and 2), for all intents and purposes, the franchise was dead in the water. I applaud Prometheus for at least trying to bring in a fresh perspective on the IP.


Prometheus, in my perspective, was mostly fan service (not as worse as the AvP franchise, but fan service anyway). Ridley Scott even explains in the making-of (on the dvd) that some scenes of the movie are only there as tributes to the original Alien.

I did appreciate that they tried to rejuvenate the franchise by taking it into a different direction, and while Prometheus is visually stunning and the ''archytechs'' look like a cool alien species, I couldn't get pass the bad acting and the fact that some crew members were just unbelievably stupid. The plot was just not plausible enough for me. You don't hire an entire crew and send them into space without knowing beforehand if each members of the crew will get along with the others, it's just asking for trouble.

Shadow Lodge

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LazarX wrote:
Hicks bought it in the second movie, no? As to Newt, I understand why it was done, they didn't want a kid element/sidekick to soften the edges of the setting or plot for the third movie.

Dark Horse comics kept them both alive, and Newt existing damn sure didn't soften the edges there. If anything, Aliens fans would do better to follow the Dark Horse comics and ignore the post Aliens films.

The biggest problem with Prometheus was that people wanted it to be something that it wasn't and was never meant to be....an Alien film. It's tangentially connected to Alien, and it's set in the same world, but it's NOT an Alien film.


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Kthulhu wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Hicks bought it in the second movie, no? As to Newt, I understand why it was done, they didn't want a kid element/sidekick to soften the edges of the setting or plot for the third movie.

Dark Horse comics kept them both alive, and Newt existing damn sure didn't soften the edges there. If anything, Aliens fans would do better to follow the Dark Horse comics and ignore the post Aliens films.

The biggest problem with Prometheus was that people wanted it to be something that it wasn't and was never meant to be....an Alien film. It's tangentially connected to Alien, and it's set in the same world, but it's NOT an Alien film.

Prometheus was just a bad sci-fi movie, period. It pretended to be an Alien prequel to attract Alien fanboys (money grab) without bearing the Alien name, thus not associating itself with the declining Alien franchise which would have repelled those who know that nothing good can come from the Alien franchise nowadays. It's like having your cake and eating it too.


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Kthulhu wrote:
The biggest problem with Prometheus was that people wanted it to be something that it wasn't and was never meant to be....an Alien film. It's tangentially connected to Alien, and it's set in the same world, but it's NOT an Alien film.

Nah. The biggest problem with Prometheus was that it was a bad movie, period.

I went in not expecting an Alien/Aliens film (and not wanting an Alien/Aliens film), and I still got a bad movie.

(And I don't know what all this talk about post-Aliens movie is... there are only 2 Alien movies. ;) So given that, what happened to Colonial Marines (and that there's an attempt to make it 'canon') doesn't surprise me in the least. That franchise just keeps going down the drain. Sad.


Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:


What problems do you have? What holes are there?

Roughly everything. However, there has already been a sizeable thread dedicated to Prometheus and I don't really care enough to rekindle it. Besides, this isn't really the thread for it.


Bruunwald wrote:

Firstly, the AVP movies could still take place in canon at least as well as anything else (if you MUST have them in it - my understanding is they were NEVER supposed to be, but were stand-alones). Prometheus' events take place in secret and separately, as (supposedly) do the events in AVP. And Prometheus takes place on a different planet than Alien.

Secondly, the AVP movies were crap that were never meant as canon.

I think if you asked 20th Century Fox or the creators of those films if they were canon, they would reply yes, as they wanted ALIENS fans to go and see them. And the only entity which can 'officially' determine what is canon and not in this instance is the studio, as the sole continuous factor in all seven films (which otherwise have no shared writer, producer or actor).

Ridley Scott's return to the franchise, and the fact that his views (that nothing apart from ALIEN and ALIENS are canon) chime with the apparent majority of ALIENS fans (including my own), does give him and his opinions a lot of weight, however.

Quote:
Fifthly, Prometheus is NOT a true sequel, as testified-to by the FILMMAKERS themselves.

Indeed, it isn't a sequel. It's set 28 and a half years before ALIEN, which would make it a prequel ;)

I do get what you are saying, which is that it's set in the same universe with a storyline that intersects with that of ALIEN in a couple of points (the Engineer and the fact that the events take place in the same star system, though not the same planet/moon), but it's not directly connected.

Quote:
They probably just didn't want the WRONGNESS of having a little girl with a bunch of inmates...

There was another issue: 6 years had passed between the production of ALIENS and ALIEN 3. The young girl in ALIENS was a teenager (or just about), so they would have had to have recast. Given her performance was pretty strong in ALIENS, replacing her would also have been problematic.

I think I'd rather they'd have followed the comics and simply opened the story several years later. In the comics, I recall that it was 10-12 years after the events of ALIENS and Newt is a young woman in her late teens or early twenties who gets involved in a Company plot with the xenos that ends with Earth itself being invaded. Whilst it would have been perhaps a bit of an obvious escalation of scale, that story to me is more interesting than ALIEN 3, which was regressive, taking us back to a closed setting like that of ALIEN instead of doing something new.

Quote:
What problems do you have? What holes are there?

I discuss some of the issues and possible resolutions at length here. Note this only deals with the issue of how PROMETHEUS interacts with ALIEN and doesn't address the other issues (like why the supposed scientific professionals on the ship act consitently like utter morons throughout the whole film).

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