There's only one way Klo - CURRY!
mmmmm ... love me some curry.
I've tried to compromise with Hilde. She will go and fight the Queen in Irrisen. If necessary, she will free Baba Yaga. If freeing Baba Yaga is not necessary, she won't do it.
She is also willing to accompany those that take his Oath and aid them in their endeavors.
She isn't willing to take an Oath to free Baba Yaga in exchange for one of his keys. To me, it's a false choice of lesser of two evils. Someone comes to me and says that there is this huge thing going on and we're all going to die if we don't do X. Sure, something is going on, but why is X the only way to fix it?
We'll see what the others say. I haven't kept them from doing anything.
That's not what Hilde's said in thread so far though - she's stated she won't free Baba Yaga. There are plot related reasons for needing to be explicit here.
You the player think that it's a false choice between the lesser of two evils... but Hilde the character doesn't know that. Especially given her oath and the fact that the Rider is a non-evil fae creature. She's got every reason to trust his word that freeing the crone is necessary for preventing the icepocalypse.
At the end of all things it boils down to one question:
Do we want to do this AP or not? - this is one of the areas where a little railroading is needed in order to make sure the train runs on the tracks. There is no way to continue the plot at all without the Black Rider's explicit help... and he won't give it unless you commit to at least seeing Baba Yaga freed.
To be honest - I thought Halfhand's leap of faith of leaving Heldren in the company of two gnomes and a half-fey was a more out of character moment than what you're being asked of here?
To be honest - I thought Halfhand's leap of faith of leaving Heldren in the company of two gnomes and a half-fey was a more out of character moment than what you're being asked of here?
There's truth in that. For the Halfhand, it's like a Paladin working with two imps and their glabrezu master. I could have gone on and on about it being so contrary to his nature that it becomes impossible... But what would the point in that be?
Stonewalling things earns you nothing. The Halfhand hates the idea of working with beings of chaos just as much as Hilde dislikes working with evil. But we can deal with that in non-disruptive ways. Have her dreading the decision, have some uncertainty, ponder over the rammifications of the actions as you walk the path. Instead of saying "No, I won't.", say "Is this really worth it?" and "What have I done?" as we go on. Isn't it more interesting to get your hands a little dirty, so that you can wash them clean later on?
It's even mentioned in the Paladin code of conduct that they can work with lesser evils to defeat greater ones. Baba Yaga keeps the balance in Irrisen. She's the one that keeps the Queens from running amok in the rest of the world. Like Cerberus guarding the gates of Hades, she's a neccesary evil. Isn't it worth bringing back the gatekeeper to keep the tides of Hell from washing out into the world?
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Hilde needs to spend some time in the Black Hus... now there is necessary evil heh.
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Random member: Hey guys, lets use this tactic called little girl lost, I'll pretend to be all lost in the snow whilst you guys lay in wait in the snow.
Random Orc: No wai, that's BS, who'd believe that story, wandering about out here in the snow solo and apparently pretty weak and frail? I wouldn't buy that for a second and just murderise you on the spot, only a sucker would buy that.
Random GM: So this NPC woman who seems all friendly and stuff comes wandering in from the snow seeking shelter and what not.
Random Party: Hai lets share life stories!
Random Orc: FML.
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[spoiler=Black Hus]
See I had a totally different slant on the life story thing - was trying to bait her into giving me reason to butcher her...
Random member: Hey guys, lets use this tactic called little girl lost, I'll pretend to be all lost in the snow whilst you guys lay in wait in the snow.
Random Orc: No wai, that's BS, who'd believe that story, wandering about out here in the snow solo and apparently pretty weak and frail? I wouldn't buy that for a second and just murderise you on the spot, only a sucker would buy that.
Random GM: So this NPC woman who seems all friendly and stuff comes wandering in from the snow seeking shelter and what not.
Random Cold Nutted Vikingr: Black Rider? Really? Why do you ask "Miss-All-Alone-In-The-Snow-Asking-Coincidental-Questions"...
Random Party (and Random NPC Host): Leave her alone she is welcome!
Random Orc: FML.
Random Cold Nutted Vikingr Thinks: FML :)
With hindsight goat flanks and the stink of fae should be reason enough.
Random member: Hey guys, lets use this tactic called little girl lost, I'll pretend to be all lost in the snow whilst you guys lay in wait in the snow.
Random Orc: No wai, that's BS, who'd believe that story, wandering about out here in the snow solo and apparently pretty weak and frail? I wouldn't buy that for a second and just murderise you on the spot, only a sucker would buy that.
Random GM: So this NPC woman who seems all friendly and stuff comes wandering in from the snow seeking shelter and what not.
Random Cold Nutted Vikingr: Black Rider? Really? Why do you ask "Miss-All-Alone-In-The-Snow-Asking-Coincidental-Questions"...
Busty Barbarian Beauty (and Random NPC Host): Leave her alone she is welcome! (Translated as: FML! "Shut your yap for a moment and put your d!ck away so we can see what she has to say before we slaughter her. We're upsetting our hostess whom we all swore oath this time, can we pretend to play nice for five seconds? Look, I'm don't trust the blue woman either, you see I'm not sitting but and ready to spring up into action. Let it look like I'm relaxed though, let her lower her guard.")
Random Orc: FML.
Random Cold Nutted Vikingr Thinks: FML :)
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We swore an oath? Nah, we were just swearing.
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I know you think this is funny but you two are really sucking the fun out of this game for me. I get that you're playing your characters but right now they feel like one dimensional attack dogs that we just have to put up with. No subtlety, no attempts at diplomacy, everything is just "I deceive them until I get close enough to hit them with my sword" and it's just not fun any more. It's boring because we have the same conversation every time. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.
Every time we have to talk Elghund and Skäne out of killing them for no good damn reason. Trees, let's kill them. A weasel, let's kill it. A camp of travelers that might help us survive this place, let's kill them and take their tents. I have no idea why Katherson would ever stay with you two. Ever. His background would lead him to immediately leave a group as committed to suicidal frontal attack no matter what the situation called for.
We are flat out told by our host, to whom we swore an OATH that we would bring no trouble, that we should be subtle lest we tip our hand. And then what do you do? The exact opposite, despite the rest of the group asking you to stand down and be subtle!
I get that you are playing your character, I truly do. This is not a personal attack and should not be taken as such. But what I want to know, truly want to know, is why the hell Katherson would stick around? Why would he continue to heal someone he saw as a rabid dog who deserves to be put down? As far as he can tell we are doomed to fail because in every situation that calls for something other than a sword, you two refuse to back down and let others play to their strengths. Why am I here if this is the Eghlund and Skäne attack everything show?
EDIT: To be clear, I am not asking anybody to change their character or how they play them, nor am I threatening to quit if that doesn't happen. I am legitimately trying to figure out how I can enjoy this game while staying true to my character concept, as it currently stands.
** spoiler omitted **...
Try to form a tighter bond with another less offensive character so that they might act as an anchor for Katherson to the group? Also, Katherson is a pretty quiet character, maybe speaking out more in game could help, too?
This is a dark game, the designers clearly thought the party was going to be a bunch of nice guys, and as a result they cheap shot the hell out of us by waving something nice and then have it bite us in the arse. Wave a fluffy bunny, reveal it as a rattlesnake. Nice talking moose? Hides one of the enemy, probably leading us into an ambush. Find something half way nice? It's a trap. This whole AP was clearly written in the style of Struwwelpeter. These are dyed in the wool nasty nasty black hearted enemy.
You may or may not have noticed, but 'deceiving long enough to get close to X them with my Y' is invariably the enemy tactic every single time, so why on Earth would we just sit there waiting for them to get the first shot in when we know they are coming? Why do we choose the poorest tactical decision and then extol it as a good idea 'Little Girl Lost' for example - it divides us and spreads us out, simply exposing us to greater risk.
I don't know what you mean by 'no good reason', do you mean the trees that attacked us? Or the Weasel that Elghund took great care to capture alive? Do you mean the invisible Fey baiting us with the moose? The Bandits? Can you point to the time we were actually wrong?
I'll also refute that we swore an oath, Elghund certainly did not, there is a big difference to telling someone you aren't going to start trouble with them and swearing an OATH, and like you should know by now - via Annalissa finding out - your word does not bind Elghund. Tipping our hand and being subtle? really? is that what the party did? The first thing they did was spill their guts to Nadya. Then the decision was made to start talking to the goat lady instead of just shutting up.
Elghund tried to pull the subject back to the woman instead so the whole thing could blow over. The obvious goat legged frosty Fey who is pretty much looking for us - the one you were going to what, let walk back to wherever and reveal our location? Why?
What I find as being no fun is having party members who refuse to adapt, refuse to change, refuse to take the initiative, and insist on being beaten to the draw when the most painfully obvious clues are there that we are being set up for a fall.
I don't know why you are here, that's for you to figure out.
If you want to see diplomacy then go right ahead and do it, show us your diplomacy chops and make it happen - lead by example. With that said, if the assessment is that you have given up too much information then expect us to 'risk manage' the problem. If you don't like the nature of the talking, then it is on you to step up and do something about it by leading the debate.
I would suggest you would be having more fun and being less surprised if you were actually reading what was written by the party and put some thought into it, like the nasty co-incidence of having a 'Little girl lost' debate and Elghunds views on it, and then seeing a Little Girl Lost playing out against us - did you not think at that point "Hmmm the Greenskin and his stabby mate had some views on that a few posts back, reckon I'll read what that was about again as they are suspicious and violent and that could have weight in this moment"? Probably not.
I was trying to talk Skane down from just killing the thing, where were YOU?
Edit: I can only suggest that the key here is to get into the party storyline, not just the AP one - Elghund responds well to strong leadership, Klo by way of example - Klo says, Elghund tends to do.
If Elghund has a stated position, like Little Girl Lost, then I as a player will stick to that position pretty consistently.
If you want to do the talking and Diplomacise, then ask Skane not to talk - you didn't get immediately concerned when he suggested he was going to be talking to the NPC?
I just find it odd that you seem surprised by our actions when the in game cues were made clear - Don't want Elghund to knife something? Ask him specifically not to, BUT it is then on you to make him feel safe and secure. Once it was tipped to the woman that we were Outlanders the game was up and things had to go red. That's not Elghunds fault, but it was now his problem.
So you're going to ignore my posts then accuse me of the same, then tell me I should step up and lead while saying you will ignore me and do what you want? You're right, I need to think about why I'm here.
What post? I am curious to know which part you felt was ignored.
Just an amendment - I am not sure where you are getting "then tell me I should step up and lead while saying you will ignore me and do what you want?" - that is a strange thing to say. What you are being told, and let me make this explicitly clear - if you want to do something then do it and do it well, because if you drop your bundle then we will most likely react as we feel we need to.
See how that's different?
Do your job, or we will do ours.
That's all it boils down to.
That's not what Hilde's said in thread so far though - she's stated she won't free Baba Yaga. There are plot related reasons for needing to be explicit here.
One of the dangers of writing everything in rhyme is that it's tough to be clear and even tougher to interpret what I'm trying to say. Kennings made it even more impossible. Please let me illustrate what I thought I said:
"Heroic fates, these have I seen,
for my two kin before thee,
with them, to Hell I go today,
but not for her, and not for thee."
I will go with my friends here to fight, not because I want to help you, but because they have great fates before them.
"I'll fight the witch's daughter,
and take the fight where're it be,
but can we win without your mistress,
I shall not, will not, set her free."
In helping my friends fight the Queen of Irrisen, I'll free Baba Yaga if I have to, but if it looks like we can win without freeing her, I won't.
I try to be clear when rhyming, but I could probably be better at it. I thought this a reasonable stance for Hilde -
1) I'll go help fight.
2) I'll free Baba Yaga if it's necessary, as you've claimed.
I thought then maybe we'd argue/negotiate a bit so that the following would be revealed as well:
3) I will not stop anyone who has made the Oath from freeing Baba Yaga including creating a situation whereby her freedom becomes impossible.
However, I have no interest, and never have, of derailing the AP. I thought this situation could be talked through because we both want something here - he wants help I'm willing to offer and I don't want to make an Oath to free a Neutral Evil witch/goddess, no matter what, even if I don't have to.
In the real world, we could ignore this plot hook and possibly find another. This is not the real world however, so there is not going to be another. I am therefore willing to give in completely and without restriction to allow the game to move forward, should that be your preference. As this seems to be the case, I will post Hilde's Oath tomorrow unless you instruct otherwise.
I'm not so arrogant that I would try to derail the game because my character doesn't want to make an Oath. Nor am I so self-important that I think my character's problems are the only ones. I am not looking for this conversation to be "all about me." Everyone else, go ahead and make your Oaths. One way or another, I'll back you up.
I hope that seems reasonable and I'm not being a jackass. I don't want to be a jackass and will do whatever is required to not be one.
^^This is the only person I actually feel sorry for^^
Poor Hilde is a cautionary tale that confirms what I was saying above. This whole AP seems to be about putting you into a position of trying to take the lesser of two evils, whilst ensuring that no good deed you do ever goes unpunished.
The saga seems to be about putting you in bad situations where your trust will continue to be betrayed, and where giving a sucker an even break will only help give them the surprise round.
Since working out that this was the theme I am approaching this more as an Underdark adventure in a snow covered wrapper. Look at what happens when you try to do the moral and decent thing? Poor Hilde, and example for the rest of us.
You're absolutely correct, I attempted to play a moral character in a group of reavers. I came in late and tried not to make waves, then based my character around the concept of "redeeming" the party of their black handed ways. Clearly, this was a mistake. But fear not, there is a change in the wind.
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Actually that wasn't the problem, the in game choices you make are a problem.
Lets take this latest encounter for example:
The party gets the warning something dubious is coming, fits all the profile of a typical enemy. Skane and Elghund predictably respond to the threat.
Yourself and Klo suggest chilling out, some reasonable words of wisdom ensue, Skane and Elghund stop and take five.
For those keeping score at home you'll note we haven't simply killed anything on sight or started playing nasty. At this point we are wary and have backed off like we were asked to.
This is where your ideals and your actions fall short.
No counter-plan was given to us, no strategy laid out. At this point you've indicated not to tip our hands early, ok so we wont go early - thats not the same as stow your blades.
Back to the game,
Skane is now talking about 'talking', another sure sign that things are going to go badly. Diplomacy oriented players would immediately work out that the second worst thing Skane could do after drawing his sword is opening his mouth, it is destined for a bad outcome because he has the people skills of a toilet roll.
What SHOULD have happened is either you said you would take the lead on the encounter and leave the talking to you, OR Klo had the next option to recover by interceding when Skane (inevitably) did things YOUR way and talked.
Things got worse from there as Skane went on unchecked, Elghund tried to salvage the situation and redirect things before the train crashed, but this wasn't working, an Orc can only talk so fast. The Orc you accuse of just murdering everyone with no social skills is now trying to talk us out of a problem - you know, YOUR job.
But then here was YOUR opportunity to roll out the diplomacy mat and show us your chops, you know, the big chance to shine and show your strengths you asked for and here was your stellar contribution:
Isn't that what we were trying to hide?Katherson says nothing as he waits for Skäne to reveal all their secrets.
You. Did. Nothing.
Worse than that, you let what was obviously a problem continue to its bloody conclusion and then you have the temerity and hide to come over to OOC and complain about it.
When push came to shove you did bubkis - No subtlety, no attempts at diplomacy.
I also reject the idea that it is 'every single time', Te-Penny would beg to differ, the people in the snow here would beg to differ, the bandits we let go would beg to differ, the oversized hamster that Elghund took alive would beg to differ.
The only things we have killed were the enemy. Point to where I was wrong so far?
Hilde got you now, sorry for the mis read.
I am out for the day but will be back in the evening with updates and what not. I'll also address some of the concerns posted
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Skane is now talking about 'talking', another sure sign that things are going to go badly. Diplomacy oriented players would immediately work out that the second worst thing Skane could do after drawing his sword is opening his mouth, it is destined for a bad outcome because he has the people skills of a toilet roll.
Bahahahaha
I believe I already admitted that I was wrong, that my character was not as fully developed as he should have been and that I have lately been coasting along instead of doing my part. You should probably learn to be more gracious in victory but if you want to continue to harp on this, feel free. I am already making the necessary changes to my character and moving on.
OK time to let my hippie show. *hugs* all around. No fighting!
I'll also address some of the concerns posted.
I look forward to reading it.
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Outwith some in-game specific stuff (which I'll spoiler) I am playing Skane as a driven reaver - he's not a nice guy; cantankerous, ill mannered braggard, uncouth and red handed. Think I've done a decent job of establishing that out of the gate; recognising the kindred spirit in the orc, the ongoing love/hate relationship with Annalisa etc.
Shifty highlighted that Skane is not the group's face, so aye when he starts talking its likely a prelude to disaster or at the least rubbing NPCs up the wrong way (accusing the village men of being cowards, the Taldan noblewoman, now our current host) - I'm consistently dropping us in it if allowed to...
My boy will respond to direct orders/veiled threats/consequences - but as pointed out he's been allowed to run his mouth unchecked (despite that potential resultant train-wreck being recognised...)
I am kinda disheartened that Katherson (for one) feels this approach is contributing to "sucking the fun" out of the game - not my intention but I'm also not about to change Skane into some "heroic warrior of the sagas" unless going forward this is something that DMVoV requires of me...
As for the oath - Skane said "Nei trouble unless it is brought to me." - suitably vague and frankly when a Fae (our recognised enemy) enters the encampment in the middle of a blizzard - asking questions, then he will unfortunately shift to belligerent mode (and naturally so in his eyes). Nadya had alrady highlighted that we'll stand out like sore thumbs in Irrisen - so its not a stretch for Skane to think a native fae (enemy - who will also recognise us as outlanders) poses a threat to us... Throw in the Black Rider question and it will trip my boys defcon rating.
However as Elg/Shifty said - if you want to engage these creatures in conversation - do so before my boy does a diplomatic kamikaze job... or at the very least check him into holding his tongue...
Also as Shifty points out our foes have consistently used deception as a weapon - so its also not too much of a stretch to think that someone as black mooded as Skane will get paranoid (especially as he's been on the repeated wrong end - Snowman and kald nuts). Some would be cautious going forward... My vikingr is too proud for that - a yeah I know pride comes before a fall etc... that's exactly my point with Skane...
I'm not precious about my characters either - if my boy gets nailed or torn asunder for his pride, then cool... its in keeping with his life and (resultant) death.
I waived my option at Invoke the Vættir as I saw Skane answering to no god or spirit. He's trying hard not to be a engine of fate as neither fate or the gods did him or his family any favours in the past... He knows he can't escape the skein, but pride and sheer bloody mindedness means he'll not change...
Anyway food for thought - will be interesting to see what everyone else thinks (especially Mark)
My 2 runes worth.
You should probably learn to be more gracious in victory but if you want to continue to harp on this, feel free. I am already making the necessary changes to my character and moving on.
And I (and no doubt Skane) are 100% right behind you and happy to work with you on building that and trying to help you turn it into something rich and interesting - but I just get annoyed when someone comes out and has a dig saying I am 'sucking the fun out' and suggesting we are playing in a certain way (which on balance we really aren't). Letting Skane hang in conversation was only ever going to end badly, and to be honest it is confusing as a player when your only reply was that you simply hang back and are letting Skane crash and burn. That says to us you are letting it happen and are OK with it. An OOC or even better, in game "Hey guys..." might have been of benefit to letting us know where you stood.
Happy to get some redemption themes going about our black hearted ways, as long as you get that it will always be a bit of a Quixotic quest where the end of the road will always be beyond your grasp - cool if you enjoy the struggle and the challenge - that you can take comfort in small victories where you can find them.
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In essence I suppose the following are the key points:
1) First to post =/= First to speak
Shifty and BD are in conducive timezones to my update schedule, so they are often the first or near first to post after I update. But that doesn't mean that you couldn't post later (in real time) and make an OOC comment that you would have strode in, or attempted to interrupt, etc
That even goes for my posts as well - I like to keep momentum rolling when I can and post as often as I can manage, but a healthy PbP will occasionally need some back-tracking or resolution of a conflux of intent. This might help you feel less powerless with respect to the more impulsive characters.
But the key comes from speaking up, either IC or OOC. Inertia is a hard thing to arrest (and I'm aware that Skane and Elghund resonate between each other), but the key is getting the word out there in the open.
Skane and Elghund could probably be a bit more proactive in backing down when challenged. I will support Katherson's claim to being a bit miffed here. As he clearly said: Think on that before you seek to tip our hand early.
But Skane's first words to the newcomer were Some of us have cause. We are outlanders - which I think you'd agree is the very literal definition of tipping one's hand.
Things went south from there - building into Elghund's veiled offer to step outside and play.
Looking back at time stamps - I probably could have given a bit more time to let those not in conducive timezones weigh in before letting Skane's intial diplo-blunder stand... which I'll keep in mind moving forwards.
Part and parcel with playing aggressive and impulsive characters is recognizing and acting on when others in the party are throwing up a caution sign (which Katherson clearly did in this instance). Sometimes that can mean waiting a bit to let those less timezone friendly weigh in - or putting up a half-post, something like:
Mr Smith was tense, the flurble obviously didn't like them, but Fluffypants said not to dirty it's coat. He looked to Captain Gruble, clear in his eyes that if he didn't flopchock soon, then Mr Smith would...
2) On the AP
The comments that the AP is a meat-grinding murder train aren't necessarily right. There are a lot of fae... but there are good ones mixed in amongst the bad (which you'll even meet in this volume potentially, plus more in Volume 2). Remember so far you've only been dealing with repelling an invasion force into foreign lands. It should be clear that most of those are bad guys (except for Ten-Penny).
You're not in Kansas anymore now - essentially you've just stepped into post-WWII Poland when the Soviets were at their height... and Lech Walesa didn't exist as a rallying point yet. Irrisen is ruled by a bourgeois ruling class, and the peasantry are oppressed. There are good people who want to fight, there are bad ones that will point you out for extra gruel... and lord help you if the Gestapo find out about you.
I'm not going to roll back time, and will probably have the next game post up tomorrow... as it's taken me a good half hour to write this :P
For the Sidhe - my apologies for Hilde for reading inbetween the lines in the wrong way. I can totally work with the opening you've left and will be giving you a tangible way in thread to work that partial promise into your acceptance of the 'mantle'.
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DMVoV, it LOOKS like a duck, and was quacking like a duck - I reckon its a little lost duck :p
It's all good by me VoV, I have no complaints.
It's really hard to read all the rhyme, even when you're in a hurry, and get it right every time. Then again, I could be clearer sometimes and a better poet all the time. I have a friend that did iambic pentameter for everything he said for entire weekends at a time and I wish I were up to that.
I don't think the AP has been that hard to be a good guy in so far, but then, I'm not with Black Hus. Hilde would have a much harder time with that crew than this one I think.
The hardest part with Hilde is staying "nice" when she wants to play dirty or play "brave" when she wants to run. I honestly thought she was going to die when we fought the troll and I seriously wanted to run when Halfhand bugged out. I sat here at my computer just certain that all my work on the character was about to be cut down - and actually was, twice. Fey Viking Princesses don't run though, certainly not when it would have left Olaf and Bastagar open, so I stuck it out.
I think that's been the hardest moment yet in this game. I was scared to death that she was going to die any second.
Which is why I was so sad about Olaf. I escaped the headsman and he didn't. That really sucked.
In essence I suppose the following are the key points:
Skane and Elghund could probably be a bit more proactive in backing down when challenged. I will support Katherson's claim to being a bit miffed here. As he clearly said: Think on that before you seek to tip our hand early.
But Skane's first words to the newcomer were Some of us have cause. We are outlanders - which I think you'd agree is the very literal definition of tipping one's hand.
Duly noted all. However I will cite that Nadya had already flagged up the notion that we will stick out like sore thumbs in Irrisen... Not "your outlander tongues will give you away" mind - we're talking how we look/appear. So again not too much of a stretch to presume that...
Part and parcel with playing aggressive and impulsive characters is recognizing and acting on when others in the party are throwing up a caution sign (which Katherson clearly did in this instance).
Sometimes that can mean waiting a bit to let those less timezone friendly weigh in - or putting up a half-post, something like:
Mr Smith was tense, the flurble obviously didn't like them, but Fluffypants said...
100% agree and going forward I'll follow that exact route in similar situations. However the reverse applies - if a character like Skane throws up the warning signs and they are ignored or merely mulled upon... when he does commit diplomocide then I hope we don't have a repeat OOC saga.
Like Shifty I'm happy to build on the redemption path particularly Skane's burden of dishonour. Should make for a happier hus nei :)
By the way, I'm really enjoying this game.
Sometimes I get a little busy and my posts aren't timed and on point as much as I'd like for the rhythm of the game, but I absolutely love our group dynamic with the fey and the Halfhand and think it has a lot of great potential going forward.
I'm not requesting this from Hilde by any means, but you could also consider posting a spoiler when you have your rhyme and giving DMVoV (and some of us) the intended meaning/translation so there's no question about your meaning. DMVoV and us can still potentially look at it and play off some of the ambiguities if we think it has greater potential.
I don't suppose I am going to get access to that nice 50,000gp-equivalent boon, am I...?
Okay, wow. I had a few projects come in at me sideways, and have been working through the weekend.
Sorry for going silent on everyone… especially given the conversation. I'm not in the clear as of now, and—despite how much I'd like to be able to jump back in during all this—I just can't yet.
So sorry for the inconvenience. I'll be back on as quickly as I can. Not sure if that's going to be in a day or in a week.
Good luck, Klo. I hope everything is OK and it all goes smoothly for you.
For the record, Snjórinn's avatar scares me.
I don't mind doing that Kelgar. I did it back when I used a lot more kennings and only stopped because researching kennings took too long.
...But the key comes from speaking up, either IC or OOC.
OK. Then I will go on record as sharing some of Katherson's frustration/irritation with the level of impulsiveness and/or insistent "kill'em!" attitude. At times, it reminds of the old "hack-n'-slash-I-kick-in-the-door-and-kill-everything-in-the-room" days. And that isn't a good thing, in my opinion, for an ensemble group. If we were all playing vikings or this was billed as an old school dungeon hack, fine. But we aren't and it isn't. Is it dampening my fun? Yes.
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OK. Then I will go on record as sharing some of Katherson's frustration/irritation with the level of impulsiveness and/or insistent "kill'em!" attitude. At times, it reminds of the old "hack-n'-slash-I-kick-in-the-door-and-kill-everything-in-the-room" days. And that isn't a good thing, in my opinion, for an ensemble group. If we were all playing vikings or this was billed as an old school dungeon hack, fine. But we aren't and it isn't. Is it dampening my fun? Yes.
OK so I ask you the same question:
"Where were you when it mattered?"
Lets play through this encounter on a play by play.
It was Monday that the NPC was spotted.
Elghund volunteered to look.
Rikka puts in a request for heals, obviously expecting trouble.
Katherson chimes in with "Maybe it isn't looking for a fight, but if it is show no quarter. There's little room for mercy in this place."
So who is doing what preparation for fighty fighty here? It would seem that of the three, Katherson is already setting a stage - show no quarter? Little room for mercy? Rikka is hitting up for heals, expecting a combat.
Tuesday:
Elghund knows its Fey.
Rikka chooses to wait.
Klo outs it as horned and hooved, Elghund and Skane start turning a bit nasty about the subject, signalling that they are now hostile.
Katherson now talks about not being rash.
Elghund backs down from getting ready to go attack.
Annalissa defends the host.
So at this point we have a the whole party anticipating some kind of trouble, but Elghund has been checked by Katherson, who was actually the original person talking about having a fight and being all 'no-mercy' should it come to that
Wednesday:
The fey comes in, and so far all good. No one is killing anyone.
Skane shows his mad people skills and drops a clanger.
The fey starts asking more questions about us in response, very particular questions.
Elghund starts re-directing the conversation straight away.
So now things have gone badly, Elghund has jumped on trying to fix things, to keep us from being outed and a problem kicking off.
Thursday
Klo leaves Elghund to it.
Katherson posts that he is aware this is a pretty significant problem,but that he is just going to let the situation continue to go south - could have interjected to help Elghund who was the only one so far trying to stop the train derailing.
Friday:
The NPC tips her hand, starts talking about black riders and the whole deal that identifies her as enemy (or well aware of what is going on)shows her teeth setting us on edge and is revealed as pretty much the bad guy.
Skane keeps being Skane and things get worse.
Annalissa tried asking for peace, but by that stage it was pretty late in the day.
Elghund starts trying to work out just how badly we've been set up by little girl lost and starts questioning the lady, trying to gauge how our tactic has been played against us.
Katherson posts up again that he's saying nothing, once again not trying to salvage the situation.
And at the end of Friday afternoon the situation finally implodes.
***
So it took five days of game to get to a point where it came to a head - in all that time not one post of yours was directed to changing the outcome. Your initial posts were posturing for trouble. Not a word posted to change where that was going. After Tuesday your following post was Monday, which is cool, but hard for us to take guidance other than what you had posted (Get healed, start waiting).
If you'd like to point out any other impulsiveness I am sure it would be good to subject it to close scrutiny (Elk aside, which was deliberate and we covered that). I think you'll find little impulsiveness or kill em all.
After all, it wasn't Elghund nor Skane starting off with:
"Maybe it isn't looking for a fight, but if it is show no quarter. There's little room for mercy in this place."
Don't blame us for following instructions.
Look more closely at your own in game actions.
EDIT: To be sure, go back and READ how the trees kicked off - they attacked the party, unprovoked.
Go back and read about the Weasel, the suggestion was to finish it off, it was Elghund who raised taking it alive and capturing it (to tame to his own ends perhaps) to which Katherson replied was a good idea.
So far its not looking like Elghund or Skane are starting too much actual trouble.
OK so I ask you the same question:
"Where were you...."
You can stop there since your response is based on incorrect assumptions. I haven't said anything about this particular encounter. I was responding to VoV's post:
...But the key comes from speaking up, either IC or OOC.
I interpret this, in a general way (particularly with the inclusion of the OOC mention), as VoV asking us to chime in on this issue or any other. That's what I've done. Nothing more, nothing less.
OK. Then I will go on record as sharing some of Katherson's frustration/irritation with the level of impulsiveness and/or insistent "kill'em!" attitude.
Then I am unsure whay impulsiveness/"kill'em!" attitude you are talking about when sharing Kathersons concerns. If it's not about us then fine, but his concerns were with Skane and I.
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She has twin boys at home, a little younger than her daughter - but still very much alive.
She is thinking of them right now... and the danger that she's likely placing them in, potential for blowback. You've witnessed first hand what they turned her daughter into.
Just something to keep in mind when weighing how Nadya's acting.
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A personal oath might assist the situ, but its all down to DMVoV... am hoping that the dust settles and we can all enjoy some goat hauches... nothing like a good feast for building bridges :)
Being serious - am hoping that this whole episode doesn't derail the Black Hus' AP; please bear in mind that as I've said before I'm playing Skane very much as a bitter hearted ba$tard, a cantankerous fly in the ointment and (in being so) it has repeatedly backfired on him (snowman... iss fruits to name but two) - as the AP threats increase I easily envisage Skane not making it... but I'm not trying to play the AP as some old skool "kick in the door kill-kill-steal-steal... next!" type game, far from it.
The play isn't a willful attempt to derail the game or belittle the fun we're having - just playing in character and enjoying hugely the interplay when chastised, reigned in or encouraged in equal measure.
Then I am unsure whay impulsiveness/"kill'em!" attitude you are talking about when sharing Kathersons concerns.
LOL
"Yur honor, I plead total ignorance of the tenor of my actions in dis here campaign. I just a ig'nant orc."
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Rikka, I am going to be very direct with you then, I think you are way off base, and that what I put to you earlier applies. Have the courtesy to be a little honest about it.
You can whinge and whine all you like, but your view of how things play out is a little light, perhaps its because you simply cut to the end of what happened after a week long absence and don't bother to read how things played out in the intervening time, otherwise there's no way you could be so demonstrably wrong.
Pontentially, yes - though lets wait how the introduction plays out. I'm thinking that the mantle might be extended over you - making you subject to the same benefits and obligations.