Within our group there seems to be one way Spell Perfection is interpreted, but I am not positive it is the CORRECT interpretation. Some cursory forum searches have turned up a number of threads that dance around the issue, but none that actually discuss the feat in detail with regard to the one particular problem.
Spell Perfection
Benefit: Pick one spell which you have the ability to cast. Whenever you cast that spell you may apply any one metamagic feat you have to that spell without affecting its level or casting time, as long as the [u]total modified level[/u] of the spell does not use a spell slot above 9th level. In addition, if you have other feats which allow you to apply a set numerical bonus to any aspect of this spell (such as Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, Weapon Focus [ray], and so on), double the bonus granted by that feat when applied to this spell.
Emphasis Mine
I have seen two interpretations regarding the emphasized portion of the feat.
Interpretation 1 - The "total modified level" refers to the level of the spell prior to applying Spell Perfection.
Example: for a 5th level spell, you could only add 4 levels of Metamagic, and the highest single increase would be removed once Spell Perfection is applied. (The final spell slot used would be variable depending on which Metamagic feats are applied, and which is removed by Spell Perfection)
Interpretation 2 - The "Total modified level" refers to the total modified spell slot a spell uses AFTER applying Spell Perfection.
Example: For a 5th level spell, you could apply one Metamagic feat for free with Spell Perfection, then apply up to 4 additional levels of Metamagic, using up a 9th level spell slot.
My group seemed to automatically reach for Interpretation 1, but I'm not certain that is correct, and I think the key is in the "Total" part of "Total modified level". What does "Total" mean? Is it Subtotal (IE Interpretation 1), or Grand Total (IE Interpretation 2)?
A "Grand Total" implies that you account for all modifiers, which in this case would seem to include the free metamagic from Spell Perfection. A "Subtotal" would imply adding everything together, then modifying it by the feat. In the absence of any other qualifier, I find it hard to believe that "Total" means anything other than "Grand Total", which is a pretty safe assumption considering how most people use the word. If I ask "What is the total?" on a purchase I am making, I mean with everything included, not just a subtotal before tax.
So my argument is that any spell modified by spell perfection must use a FINAL spell slot no greater than 9th level, meaning a Quickened, Empowered, intensified, Maximised Fireball is perfectly legal as it uses a 9th level slot.
3rd level
+4 Quickened
+3 Maximized
+2 Empowered
+1 Intensified
-4 Spell Perfection (Quickened)
"Total" = 9
Am I missing anything? Have the Dev's specifically said this does not work? Can anyone find a rule that says this is NOT a possible interpretation of the feat? Every thread I have perused that discusses this topic seems to assume one way or another, but none of them actually discuss WHY they make that assumption or back it up with rules or logic.
Interpretation 1 gets my vote.
Since Spell Perfection only lets you knock off one metamagic feat applied to it, that metamagic feat needs to be within the level you can cast.
A quickened fireball is no problem, because it only goes pushes it up to 7th level. After that you can still apply metamagics, taking it from level 3 up to 4, then 5, then all the way up 9 if you want, and while it is still quickened, it's still something that could be cast (within 9 levels).
Taking meteor swarm and quickening it is not possible, because that pushes it up to 13th level, something not allowed by Spell Perfection. Even though Spell Perfection would knock the quickened part back down 9, the spell itself would normally be above 9th level and inaccessible.
In short, I read it as: You can use one metamagic feat on this spell without changing its level or casting time, as long as that metamagic would not normally put it above 9th level. Any other metamagic feats you apply are subject to the regular rules.
But, I'm not really positive. That's just how I always thought it was done.
That doesn't make a whole lot of sense as an interpretation though. If you take a Fireball and add Quickened to it, the total modified spell level of the spell is 7th. But if you apply Spell Perfection, the Quickened feat is added for free without changing the spells level, meaning the total modified spell level is 3rd. What's stopping you from adding Maximized, Empowered and Intensified to this 3rd level spell? It wouldn't use a total MODIFIED spell level above 9th. Spell Perfection MODIFIES the spell level by removing the level increase of a single Metamagic feat. Adding the increase and not accounting for Spell Perfection would not seem to be taking into account the TOTAL MODIFIED spell level. It would be a subtotal.
Why would it need to mention anything about capping the "final" slot needed at 9th? Nobody has spell slots above 9, so it's wasted breath. The only interpretation that makes sense, then, is #1.
I was SO expecting a "Spell Perfection is broken" thread. It fills me with happiness to know that I was wrong.
It's definitely interpretation #1. Keep in mind that certain traits and metamagic rods essentially help to bypass some of Spell Perfection's limitations.
Agree with option 1. the second way is a catch 22.
I do see what you mean. Why would they limit the final spell slot when nobody has anything above 9th level spell slots?
I think the wording is exceptionally poor and should have been a bit more clear. Something like " Pick one spell which you have the ability to cast. Whenever you cast that spell you may apply any one metamagic feat you have to that spell without affecting its level or casting time. A spells total level may not exceed 9th, including the metamagic feat granted by Spell Perfection. In addition, if you have other feats which allow you to apply a set numerical bonus to any aspect of this spell (such as Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, Weapon Focus [ray], and so on), double the bonus granted by that feat when applied to this spell."
I know I'm not the only one to be confused over the wording so at the very least I'd like to see a clarification.
Magical Lineage and Metamagic Rods of course allow for spells above 9th, so I suppose that's the easiest way to do it.
@ Ravingdork - I am not one to call broken lightly. Spell Perfection is an exceptionally powerful feat, but it has some serious prerequisites and basically requires dedicating yourself to the build early on in your character's career. I'd say that's a bit of a balancing factor.
@ Ravingdork - I am not one to call broken lightly. Spell Perfection is an exceptionally powerful feat, but it has some serious prerequisites and basically requires dedicating yourself to the build early on in your character's career. I'd say that's a bit of a balancing factor.
It is definitely a powerful feat. However, I'm of the mind that there should be more feats like it. When you take a feat to get +1 to hit at high levels, it doesn't really make you feel more powerful, especially since there are feats that can grant +1 to hit at first level. Feats like Spell Perfection, on the other hand, actually makes you feel like you've invested in and perfected a single spell.
Dazing and Stunning Assault do for fighters what Spell Perfection does for spellcasters. More feats should be like that.
I most certainly agree with that sentiment. It takes 15 skill ranks and three other feats in order to actually qualify for Spell Perfection, and while it's not itself part of a "Feat Chain", it feels like it's the culmination of one.
Fighters get a similar kind of thing with Critical Mastery, but I definitely agree that it would be nice to see more feats in that wheelhouse, that feel like a serious return on an otherwise hefty investment.
Right now the two most powerful builds I have seen using Spell Perfection are the Kensai/Bladebound Magus throwing Shocking Grasps every turn with all manner of Metamagic attached to them, or the Battering Blast Sorcerer. The issue with Battering Blast is it takes a HEAVY investment from early on and basically plays like any normal Sorcerer until you can eventually take Spell Perfection. You need Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, Spell Focus, Spell Specialization, Intensify, Maximize, Empower and Spell Perfection just to make it work properly, and you need the Magical Lineage trait. You also need every single caster level increase you can get, so Varisian Tattoo can be added to the feat list. That's basically a full feat load dedicated to the perfection of a single spell, but when it works, it's probably one of the more amusing builds you will find.
I might concede that the above builds come close to the "Broken" tag, but there are so many other things that can be done with Spell Perfection that I don't think it's necessarily the feat's fault.
As RD mentioned its powerful but scaled well. Its a minimum 15th level (due to skill requirements), 15 ranks of a skill and three metamagic feats. I think thats a steep requirement for something you can only use on one specific spell. If it was one school that would be overpowered, but one spell? Being other than heightened spell the max cap on MM feats is +4 meaning anything less than a lvl 5 spell is a waste and anything more in limiting options. Likewise the bonuses are nice but nearly impossible to have everything mentioned that can be doubled let alone work on things like elemental focus. I think the people that hate it tend to be the same people that play melees nearly exclusively that dont think the power attack or vital strike trees are overpowered. :)@ Ravingdork - I am not one to call broken lightly. Spell Perfection is an exceptionally powerful feat, but it has some serious prerequisites and basically requires dedicating yourself to the build early on in your character's career. I'd say that's a bit of a balancing factor.It is definitely a powerful feat. However, I'm of the mind that there should be more feats like it. When you take a feat to get +1 to hit at high levels, it doesn't really make you feel more powerful, especially since there are feats that can grant +1 to hit at first level. Feats like Spell Perfection, on the other hand, actually makes you feel like you've invested in and perfected a single spell.
Dazing and Stunning Assault do for fighters what Spell Perfection does for spellcasters. More feats should be like that.
I was with you right up until the vital strike comment. Aside from some very specific builds(druid with a hippo companion or something), vital strike is a poor choice for a damage focused melee class. Overpowered and vital strike should never be in the same sentence.
Also, Power attack is literally a zero sum feat unless your character is using two hands... so I am again at a loss as to your reasoning here.
the thing you have to keep in mind is the feat is not meant to allow combinations you wouldn't normally be able to cast together. It just allows more metamagic spells to be cast in a day because of the one free.
Asta
PSY
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I had assumed it was #2 "Interpretation 2 - The "Total modified level" refers to the total modified spell slot a spell uses AFTER applying Spell Perfection."
I thought it was saying that you couldn't use Spell Perfection to cast a spell in a 9th level slot that would otherwise have been a "10th" level spell. The real benefit to the feat being that you get the doubled bonuses and can memorize it in a lower level slot then the spell is actually cast at.
I think I might try playing an Ifrit Sorcerer with Crossblooded Arcane/Elemental(Fire) when my buddy runs Kingmaker, then work toward gaining Spell Perfection for some fire based spell or other. Not sure how I'll set the character up or what feat progression I'll use, but I think Kingmaker ends at around 15 so it would be a cool "Realization of Power" for my character. Plus I've always wanted to play an Ifrit but never had the right combo for it.