So I've tried for a while now to make an Alchemist Bomber that convinces me.
Suffice to say I couldn't make it.
So here are some of my sticking points:
I need Precise Bombs and Fast Bombs, those are a given.Starting Feats are PBS and Precise Shot, that leaves me with 3 Discoveries and 4 Feats to spend until level 10.If the build takes longer to come togheter I don't consider it workable and I would prefer to achieve some kind of playability sooner.
The main problem is the number of Bombs.Its just never enough.I could get 25 Bombs max at level 10 with 24 INT and spending all my Feats on extra bombs. That would mean I could throw three bombs(with boots of haste) a round for only 7 rounds.
That can't be a concept.
Three Bombs is not even high DPR.Assuming I hit with all of them all the time ,wich is a big If, then thats roughly 75 damage per round.
Hardly out of order.
Anything over 3 Bombs a round is not doable as I see it.
Also it looks like I can't get Stink Bomb since I can't be limited to Fire Damage only or its no good. I need at least two other Damage Types to choose from.
So. Any ideas are welcome..
Oh and it has to be human, so no gnome favoured class bonus.
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I'm fairly certain that the class isn't quite intended to rely upon bombs as it's sole damage output or offense. However, if you need some solid burst damage... then you should be able to see some decent return for your efforts.
Things to remember: Bombs are thrown splash weapons. Anything that applies to those, also applies to bombs.
This means Rapid Shot & Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved/Greater TWF (that's at least 7 bombs in a round with Haste if I don't suck at math this morning). You'll get some penalties to your attacks for stacking those all, but remember: Thrown Splash Weapons target TOUCH AC.. which is going to be statistically much lower than standard AC.
So, what to do when you're out of bombs? I recommend Grenadier Archetype, and pick up a Longbow as your alchemical weapon. It keeps you safely at range, lets you use your Craft (Alchemy) skill for something helpful/fun, and hey: you already have the feats at this point for using the darn thing efficiently!
If you're stuck with human, well, alright then... but if you can squeeze by with Half-Orc, their favored class bonus is right up your alley for this build. If you are allowed use of the Race Build in ARG, "pyromaniac" is a nice investment for 3RP.
For bomb discoveries, my personal favorites (other than fast bombs) are: tanglefoot bomb, force bomb and stink/poison bomb. You can get a lot of utility out of those 3 varieties, not just damage.
As for gear, you might consider the Ultimate Equipment book, it's pretty much THE alchemist-specific gear source. Also, Elixirs and long-duration potions like Heroism. Amplify Elixir (extract, 3rd) + Alchemical Allocation (extract, 2nd) + Extend Potion + Potion of Heroism (16th CL) = 10hrs 40min (640min) duration for Heroism (+2 morale bonus on attack rolls, saves, and skill checks); Potion of Heroism remains usable.
Mostly though, you'll want a handy haversack and something with continuous ant haul, since Strength is useless and should be sunk to the dirt along with your charisma for more point buy.
EDIT: Holy Water. Keep a dozen flasks of this on you.. just in case. It's acid to undead/incorporeal/etc. and you'll be adding your INT modifier to the damage & splash damage they deal. Good aligned temples usually give the stuff away for free too.
Ok thanks,but as usual none of this adresses any of the problems I pointed out.
In fact most of it would only make matters worse.TWF and Rapid Shot on an Alchemist are a joke.Not only would those feats cost me 3 feats(wich means 6 bombs) but I could also use them a whopping 2 times per day.
Even throwing 4 bombs a round is not an option as I pointed out in the op.
Going Half Orc is a zero sum tradeoff and archery as a backup is also not an option as this build would not only be the worst archer you can possibly build but also expending the feats for it would cost me 8 bombs.
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I'm not sure what you are asking.
Are you looking to maximize your bomb damage?
Trying to sustain bomb throwing ability throughout the day?
As soon as you indicate that you want to take Fast Bombs and use Haste, you are implying you want to go the Nova route (ie max dps), but then you indicate you don't want to throw more than 3 bombs a round.
I find it unclear as to what you are looking for advise on, since you have already explored the Extra Bomb route and didn't like it.
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Ok there is no way to make a successful bomber only. Its the same with any other class that has use per day abilities being u cant rely solely on it and nothing else. With that said if u want help with a different concept of alchemist that will actually work ask and the forums, including my self, will be more than happy to help.
It is not possible to make a good damage-based bomber. The damage per bomb is too low and the uses per day too few. If you got some friendly rules interpretations from a DM that as far as I can tell are not RAW, you could attempt to make a decent "one big hit" bomber build using Mindchemist/Cognatogen + Kirin Strike + Targeted Bomb Admixture + the Vital Strike chain.
But that would still only be fairly mediocre damage. I tried building it as a thought experiment, so I know.
EDIT: Specifically what I don't think works by RAW is that, strictly as written, Bomb is a 1d6 damage weapon and the subsequent increases to it are considered "bonus damage", not part of its "base weapon damage". Or something like that. I don't agree with that interpretation, but iirc that's what most seem to think.
Losing that argument means losing 20d6 damage from Improved Vital Strike (well, 18d6, technically, if you were silly enough to take the VS feats on only d6 damage) which is a major loss. Or if you dipped 4 levels out for the BAB to get Greater VS (at a cost of 2d6 bomb damage), a loss of 24d6 (technically 21d6) damage. That's...a huge chunk of the build's damage right there.
Going goblin nets you a max AC of 27 at second level, with shield + reduce person spells and dex boost, allowing you to serve as party tank. Their stealth and size bonuses make for a stealth bonus of +15 at second level too, at the cost of a trait that makes stealth a class skill.
So, that's tank, dps, and scout roles at second level.
Stop thinking of alchemist just in terms of artillery.
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It is not possible to make a good damage-based bomber. The damage per bomb is too low and the uses per day too few. If you got some friendly rules interpretations from a DM that as far as I can tell are not RAW, you could attempt to make a decent "one big hit" bomber build using Mindchemist/Cognatogen + Kirin Strike + Targeted Bomb Admixture + the Vital Strike chain.
But that would still only be fairly mediocre damage. I tried building it as a thought experiment, so I know.
EDIT: Specifically what I don't think works by RAW is that, strictly as written, Bomb is a 1d6 damage weapon and the subsequent increases to it are considered "bonus damage", not part of its "base weapon damage". Or something like that. I don't agree with that interpretation, but iirc that's what most seem to think.
Losing that argument means losing 20d6 damage from Improved Vital Strike (well, 18d6, technically, if you were silly enough to take the VS feats on only d6 damage) which is a major loss. Or if you dipped 4 levels out for the BAB to get Greater VS (at a cost of 2d6 bomb damage), a loss of 24d6 (technically 21d6) damage. That's...a huge chunk of the build's damage right there.
Just to let u know going by what u said then a mage that focuses on ray spells, which do count as weapons in pathfinder because of weapon focus and an FAQ stating they do, can use vital strike to double down on the damage they do like Polar Ray normally doing 25d6 will now do 50d6 just taking Vital Strike feat alone. Taking that in2 consideration what are ur thoughts on the interpretation? I dont know about u but me personally from a player stand point would love that but as a DM i would cringe at the thought.
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I'm fairly certain that the class isn't quite intended to rely upon bombs as it's sole damage output or offense.
This.
However, if you need some solid burst damage... then you should be able to see some decent return for your efforts.
Also this.
I'm not sure what you are asking.
Are you looking to maximize your bomb damage?
Trying to sustain bomb throwing ability throughout the day?As soon as you indicate that you want to take Fast Bombs and use Haste, you are implying you want to go the Nova route (ie max dps), but then you indicate you don't want to throw more than 3 bombs a round.
I find it unclear as to what you are looking for advise on, since you have already explored the Extra Bomb route and didn't like it.
And after your reply: all of this, plus: this