Request: assistance building a dex-tank, heading for duelist


Advice


Well, interesting mish-mash of things here.

My DM has allowed us a 28-point buy, but using the 3.5 rules for buying those points. The calculator we use can be found here: http://emrilgame.netau.net/Dmstuff/pointbuy.html

First thing to consider is that this is a low-magic campaign, so I cannot assume any magic items whatsoever. I also do not intend to take a class that's focused on magic. I'm hoping to tank as my primary role, but also to do so primarily through high AC without much armour, and I'm hoping to hit Duelist in the future - it all fits the flavour of the character that way.

So, I've looked at a bunch of options - free-hand fighter, swordlord fighter, swordlord prc, duelist prc being the main focuses, since they just look up-front to be the best options. The shield bonus from Dueling Mastery is nice, but feat-intensive, and basically dictates I have to play human.

What other options are you guys aware of? I'm expecting to enter the game at level 7. I just need to tank reasonably well - dealing damage isn't a big concern. Bonus points if he's extra-dashing.


my favorite for Duelist is...

Ranger (freebooter) with the two handed combat style.

This gets you Power Attack without meeting prerequisites, like that pesky STR 13 for a DEX build. Get Finesse (required for Duelist) and Dervish Dance. This allows for DEX to damage with a scimitar instead of STR (leave at 10 or 12).

You dont depend on items, everything runs off of DEX, you can use Ranger wands and scrolls, Freebooter archetype at level 6 allows a +2 to hit and damage as a move action, until the enemy is dead or you designate a new one... Very thematic for a duelist. If you dont like spells, pick up the Skirmisher archetype as well.

I like to reflavor the scimitar as a saber (western flavor) or a dao (chinese curved broadsword, eastern flavor).

I would be human for the extra feat... Gotta wait til level 3 for Dervish Dance, but you got to get those prereqs out of the way anyhow.

Im sure you could get a bit more damage out of a fighter, but not much more by the time you hit Duelist, and that would be largely dependent on items (gloves of Dueling, mainly).


Isn't TWF a terrible aspiration for a duelist? Precise strike says you can't attack with a weapon in your off-hand to use the ability. And isn't that where most of a duelist's damage comes from?

In any case, it's all about AC for me.

Liberty's Edge

He means THF, because it nets you the free piwer attack feat without prereqs as part of the combat style. If I was building a duelist, i'd personally be using free hand.fighter, but if your main concern is AC, i'd use the swordlord archetype and the swordlord prc instead of the duelist prc.


MoMS 2/ unarmed fighter 5, take close weapons as your group and snake and crane as your style. By duelist 2 you will rarely have to be worried about being hit in a 1-1 fight, and by duelist 5, you will be doing as much, if not more damage on your opponents turn than your own (again assuming 1-1).


Why does everyone suggest scimitars? They are slashing weapons and most of the duelists abilities require light or one handed piercing weapons... Did I miss something?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I have a pirate captain Dawnflower Dervish (Fighter archetype, Inner Sea Primer) going Duelist as well (1 more level!). Though he did get beaten pretty solidly last night by a large sauhagin barbarian (like, dead-dead. Had to get reincarnated, it was ugly). Going straight fighter to get there lets you get all those handy feats like Spring Attack, Mobility, Combat Expertise, and other ways to get hit as little as possible. Taking Dervish Dance lets you do a pretty great amount of damage.

Just pay attention to your armor - Canny Defense adds your Int bonus to your dex for AC, so your max dex will be limited within a couple levels of duelist. Bracers of Armor will be your friend in the very late levels.


Yeah... Not two weapon fighting, but two handed style. Can't use two weapon fighting with Dervish Dance anyway... Not without what most would consider minor cheese or rule bending/favourable interpretations.

Other builds will get you a bit more damage, maybe an extra trick in combat or two... But I think this is the most well rounded build: skill points, spell trigger/completion items, all while still maintaining great combat performance.

To avoid confusion, I am advocating a two handed (power attack) style Freebooter ranger with dervish dance and a scimitar, going into duelist ASAP.


Dawnflower Dervish. Nice and simple and effective. Dip Unarmed Fighter or MoMS Monk to help get Crane Wing if you want, but it's not required in the long run. Dervish Dance feat makes the scimitar count as a piercing weapon for duelist.

Frankly, I'd skip duelist and just do DD Bard 20, but your call.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Also, you can't two-hand your scimitar while Dervish Dancing. Just a note.

Lantern Lodge

The following build i created a while ago and i know its not what ur asking for but u can extrapolate a few things from it and use it as a base to see what u can do as a tank.

-Race-
Human

-Classes-
Fighter (Lore Warden) 14/ Monk (Monk of the Four Winds / Monk of the Sacred Mountain) 2/ Ranger (Weapon and Shield) 2/ Rogue 2

-Stats-
STR 14 (+6 magic item) = 20
DEX 16 (+4 leveling)(+6 magic item) = 26
CON 15 (+2 racial)(+1 leveling) = 18
INT 14
WIS 10
CHA 08

-Saves-
fort 22
ref 22
will 13

ac 47 (+5 combat expertise)(+3 fighting defensively) = 55
touch 24 (+5 combat expertise)(+3 fighting defensively) = 32
flat-footed 29

to hit with unarmed attacks with weapon finesse 26 (-4 combat expertise)(-1 fighting defensively) = 21

-Traits-
Threatening Defender

-Feat / Level Progression-
Ra01) Combat Reflexes, Stand Still
Ra02) Shield Focus
M 03) Elemental Fist, Dodge, Crane Style
M 04) Toughness, Deflect Arrows
F 05) Weapon Focus Unarmed Strike, Missile Shield
F 06) Combat Expertise, Weapon Finesse
F 07) Crane Wing
F 08) Saving Shield
F 09) Bodyguard
F 10) Crane Riposte
F 11) Draconic Defender
F 12) Greater Shield Focus
F 13) Disruptive
F 14) Spellbreaker
F 15) Pin Down
F 16) Ray Shield
F 17) Mobility
F 18) Spring Attack
Ro19) Whirlwind Attack
Ro20) Talent - Combat Trick (Weapon Specialization Unarmed Strike)

-Magic Gear-
Bracers of Armor(+8)
Mithril Heavy Shield (+5 Arrow Catching, Arrow Deflection)
Ring of Protection (+5)
Ring of Regeneration
Amulet of Natural Armor(+5)
Belt of Physical Might (+6 str / +6 dex)
Cloak of Resistance (+5)

-Tanking Method-
Fight with caster standing behind u since any thing that enters ur threaten area will not be able to exit ur threaten are via Stand Still and Pin Down as well all incoming missile attacks would veer towards u via Arrow Catching. When making an attack action fight defensively and use combat expertise to up personal ac and grant 1 adjacent party member a natural armor bonus equal to the dodge bonus from combat expertise and fighting defensively via Draconic Defender. Use AoO to grant aid another ac to an adjacent party member via Bodyguard and an immediate action grant shield bonus via Saving Shield. Negate 1 melee attack, 1 ranged spell attack, and 3 ranged missile attacks a round via Crane Wing, Ray Shield, Deflect Arrows, Missile Shield, and Arrow Deflection.


Dervish Dance from the ISWG allows scimitar for Duelist as well as dex to damage.

I'd go weapon master fighter 4, guide 2hand ranger 2 for the power attack as suggested, duelist up to the int modifier, moms monk for crane and archon (from the aasimar book) styles, then finish duelist.

If you don't like scimitars, you could move some feats around for the aldori swordlord PrC level dip for dex damage.
If the power attack tradeoff is not your style, you could monk earlier instead of ranger.
If archon style isn't allowed, be sad, then go sohei 6 instead for the single weapon flurry. Archon style lets you redirect an attack from an adjacent ally to you at the 2nd, which then provokes AoOs at the 3rd, making it great for an AC tank that might otherwise be ignored.


Does the int to AC from kensai magus stack with duelists canny defense?


Byrdology wrote:
Does the int to AC from kensai magus stack with duelists canny defense?

I'm betting they don't stack like that. I mean, if you had a massive INT bonus, they'd probably stack levels for determining the maximum bonus, but it seems unlikely that you'd get them twice - especially since it's exactly the same ability.


Jelloarm wrote:
Also, you can't two-hand your scimitar while Dervish Dancing. Just a note.

No, but you don't have to. Nothing in power attack or the ranger combat style says you must actually use the scimitar two handed to use power attack with it.

It's just a neat trick to get power attack with a scimitar while still using DEX and dumping STR.

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