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I will be utterly amazed if there are not bodies piled in windrows all over the place in this AP.
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In anticipation of corpsicles galore, here's the standard format.
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Name:
Race:
Classes/levels:
Adventure:
Location:
Catalyst:
The Gory Details: (optional)
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I'm looking forward to many tales of low-level adventurers freezing to death. ^^
C'mon Turin! The thread has been up over an hour and you don't have anyone to report yet???
My test run solo gestalt guy very nearly died in Part 1 before even getting to the first building. THAT has never happened before!
Does that help? ;)
Phew.
The laws of physics still apply.
Now you've got me all curious.
C'mon Turin! The thread has been up over an hour and you don't have anyone to report yet???My test run solo gestalt guy very nearly died in Part 1 before even getting to the first building. THAT has never happened before!
Does that help? ;)
Just out of curiousity, what does your test character look like and how does he level up? I'd be quite interested in running such a game test for myself, but managing all the set-up for so many characters always seemed too time consuming to me ( can't wait for Paizos virtual desktop ).
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Just out of curiousity, what does your test character look like and how he level up? I'd be quite interested in running such a game test for myself, but managing all the set-up for so many characters always seemed to time consuming to me ( can't wait for Paizos virtual desktop ).C'mon Turin! The thread has been up over an hour and you don't have anyone to report yet???My test run solo gestalt guy very nearly died in Part 1 before even getting to the first building. THAT has never happened before!
Does that help? ;)
I made the PC right after getting the player guide (which was before the AP PDF was available to me), so imagine my surprise as to how handy cold iron gauntlets are - best investment of 4 gp.
The Black Mantle, for a solo, puts +2 on everything but his highest ability score - in this case INT, setting his array at 15/15/15/16/15/15, with the same intended advancement points (DEX to 16 at 4th, STR thereafter). Since a 4 or 5 character group is the norm, anything that applies bonuses like these 'key' to either 4 or 5 depending on the math. A solo character needs to invest in Stealth in every AP to have even the slightest chance of surviving 1st and 2nd level. Little did I know until the dice were electronically rolling just how handy it would be!
Track XP as normal. I use d20 dice bag to roll the dice for me and make the notes in the test PC document so I know what he knows. On slow progression the solo fluctuates pretty wildly - at one point he's behind a level, most of the time he is at level, just now he's a level ahead and - quickly counting potential XP - if he hits *every* XP point he'll be 6th when Chapter 1 is done.
Level advancement doesn't occur until the test character gets in a good night's sleep. Sometimes this means that the well is running very dry when he beds down...
The alchemist balances the 'power creep' nicely as compared to full casting, so going forward I will probably continue to use alchemists as the gestalt casting class of choice - extracts don't care about arcane spell failure after all. The 'tester' won't exceed the AP expectations in terms of 'special goodies' that the terrain is designed for by chapter, he can effect self repair and so on. Bards are the only other casting class that gestalts well without escalating the raw power, especially since the 'need' to solo test is 'potentially expected spells' by approximate character level as-written. Going with alchemist was a refreshing change from my last test run gestalt that I used for Kingmaker and Jade Regeant.
The one necessary evil for the 'solo tester' is to modify what the Heal skill can be used for by way of traits. Personally I think these should simply be included in the normal use of Heal, but that is my opinion. (Treat oneself for disease and poison, for long term care and for deadly wounds, treat deadly wounds 2/day/patient - 2 traits altogether, one of which for some insensible reason is listed as a *religious* trait for Zon-Kuthon!)
For a solo test run character - human of course - you could easily toss on Fast Learner, Improvisation and Improved Improvisation along with Shadow Strike and Improved Unarmed Strike and it wouldn't make that much difference other than up survivability a wee smidge. The bigger benefit is that it gives a 'spread' of low skill bonuses to cover what the regular skill ranks don't - especially the 'trained only' skill checks that often crop up such as Knowledge checks.
no im sorry. no one can die in this yet. I havent even gotten my hard copy.
Thanks, Turin, I'll look at that in detail when I wake up later. I just got back from the RotRL round I'm in and it's 03:37 a.m. ^^
Remember everyone: kill zem, kill zem all. stacatto firing of the submachinegun of the day ensues
^_____^
Thanks, Turin, that'll help. Gestalt rules were from Unearthed Arcana ( or the other way around ) from 3.5, IIRC. No idea what the Black Mantle is, though. ^^
We demand fresh, er, frozen blood!
Thanks, Turin, that'll help. Gestalt rules were from Unearthed Arcana ( or the other way around ) from 3.5, IIRC. No idea what the Black Mantle is, though. ^^
3.0 Unearthed Arcana for the gestalt rules - basically, pick two classes, get best features of both (and any limitations such as arcane spell failure with S component spells). I'm all for gestalt PCs with the understanding that they progress one track slower than the AP/campaign is using (in this case, Slow instead of Medium). The Black Mantle is in the 1st Chapter. ;)
Thanks, one again. I still can't find the Black Mantle. But, hey, I can always make the Gestalt character a pure Azlanti. ^^
Oh, from the adventure. D'oh. I was looking for it in Unearthed Arcana. Now I get it. Alright, thanks all for the info!
Um... maybe this should be restarted when there are actually some deaths? It's no fun to read 17 posts (well 18 now thanks to me) without any actual obituaries.
Think of it as building anticipation.
...pation
and here i thought someone had actually died already.... disa...
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Name: Maxim the White
Race: Human Jadwiga
Classes/levels: Witch (Winter Witch) 6
Adventure: The Snows of Summer
Location: The Winter Portal
Catalyst: Teb Knotten
The Gory Details: (optional)
Ok I was soloing it with a 5th level Winter Witch and he almost died on the first encounter against one zombie horrible rolls. Ok now on to his actual death he unfortunately was spotted early by Hommelstaub. After Hommelstaub surprised Maxim with his thunderstone Maxim cast Summon swarm (bats) while Hommelstaub conjured a fiendish eagle and runs from the swarm. The hawk does not do anything the how fight as it is trying to attack the swarm of bats. Two winter sprites come in try color spraying Maxim but it does not effect him. The Swarm catches Hommelstaub when he stops to cast a spell. Maxim uses slumber on one of the Sprites putting it to sleep. The other sprite attacked with his arrows not doing much damage for the rest of the encounter. Enter Teb Knotten attacking me with his spear, hitting me. Next, and this is the downfall, Maxim casts defensively to cast fly but fails. The swarm keeps Hommelstaub busy for the its last round. Teb hits me again and now I am held from his spear and he finishes Maxim off with a coup de grace.
Name: Meat Snack the First
Race: Human
Classes/levels: gestalt Monk (martial artist)/ Bard (archaeologist) 1st
Adventure: Snows of Summer
Location: outdoors in the nasty weather
Catalyst: overconfident chargen ;)
The Gory Details: (optional) hypothermia, staggered, eaten by the 'wyrm
- learned the value of the Endurance feat!
Meat Snack the Second - death by color spray and coup de grace
Old Man Fu is the third test run PC (mentioned in previous posts), he barely made it through the entire chapter. ^______^
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I get the feeling this first trek into the unseasonably snowy lands will be difficult for a lot of characters. Then again, the AP is called Reign of Winter, so it's not like they're hiding what you're getting yourself into.
Yea Im thinking the same thing. How many PC's are going to run off with the war kilt and get into all this and go "oh" before they die?
All my players live and work in Alaska, so I'm assuming there will be some slight meta gaming going on as they make sure they have their woolies (this is something we literally have to do daily 7 months out of the year IRL) it snows here in JULY (quite a bit!)
But im wondering if this kind of thing wont occur to texan, or floridian players and they will run off half cocked and die of exposure? I will laugh if the weather causes a TPK.
Name: Meat Snack the First
Race: Human
Classes/levels: gestalt Monk (martial artist)/ Bard (archaeologist) 1st
Adventure: Snows of Summer
Location: outdoors in the nasty weather
Catalyst: overconfident chargen ;)
The Gory Details: (optional) hypothermia, staggered, eaten by the 'wyrm
- learned the value of the Endurance feat!Meat Snack the Second - death by color spray and coup de grace
Old Man Fu is the third test run PC (mentioned in previous posts), he barely made it through the entire chapter. ^______^
I guess you consider creating a gestalt character who has access to Endure Elements as cheating? ^^
I guess you consider creating a gestalt character who has access to Endure Elements as cheating? ^^Name: Meat Snack the First
Race: Human
Classes/levels: gestalt Monk (martial artist)/ Bard (archaeologist) 1st
Adventure: Snows of Summer
Location: outdoors in the nasty weather
Catalyst: overconfident chargen ;)
The Gory Details: (optional) hypothermia, staggered, eaten by the 'wyrm
- learned the value of the Endurance feat!Meat Snack the Second - death by color spray and coup de grace
Old Man Fu is the third test run PC (mentioned in previous posts), he barely made it through the entire chapter. ^______^
^_____^ I sure do! Besides, it was absolutely hilarious watching the nonlethal damage pile up and the guinea pig struggling to survive. <evilgrin>
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Turin why I am not surprised to see you started and already have multiple entries on this thread :p
Though test PCs is a bit of a stretch...
I'm planning on making a test run soon with 6 PCs each with 10 point builds (with Hero Points).. as thats what I'm considering giving my players. Or should I just stick with 15-point builds and no Hero Points? I have 6 players in my group currently, and they're all most likely going to stick around when we start this.
10-PB is really going to hurt any character that's not a straight caster, and badly. The casters will be slightly hampered but you'll notice no differences after say level 4.
I'd not recommend anything below 15 bare minimum myself, with or without Hero Points.
Ah well considering my players -rarely- play straight casters, then I guess I will stick with a 15-point build, but no Hero Points. Since there are 6 players then, How should I handle the increase of players over the 4 norm? In the Skulls and Shackles path I'm doing right now, I have 6 players with 25-point builds, and I have to basically rework a lot of the enemies to make them more of a challenge. Its a bit too much work doing that for all of the non-standard enemies, even if it is fun. When I run RoW, I want to stick as close to the original one as possible.
Should I simply increase the number of enemies, while not changing any attributes? Or perhaps give everything Max Hp, while keeping the numbers the same?
I'd do one or the other but not both. And definitely do the former for boss encounters - especially if the AP has them written up alone, 6-on-1 the action economy will slaughter them.
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Yeah I've already found out the 6-on-1 action economy thing on numerous occasions lol. Well, I'll decide one of the two when I get the AP. (I be broke at the moment q.q) In the mean time, time to make the first wave of test PCs! This first wave won't be insanely optimized for cold weather, either, as I'm going to make them as if they are Taldan natives.
Counts in a way. Almost dead. Is currently resting at -2 HP from damage with 7 points of non-lethal. Would likely be dead if I ran the random encounter that got rolled (hate hate hate the Strige).
Name: Bosch the BDS Fighter
Race: Human
Classes/levels: Fighter 1
Adventure: Snows of Summer
Location: Icy Crossing
Catalyst: Silent dumb Fighter
The Gory Details: (optional) He rarely ever talks and never tells the others that he's hurt. So after a few fights, failing each and every cold weather check. Being too close to the snowball was just too much.
How can he fail every cold weather check? They didnt buy cold weather outfits? there are several available in town?
How can he fail every cold weather check? They didnt buy cold weather outfits? there are several available in town?
Shhhh, let the man freeze! (Also, bad dice happen, especially as the DC gets higher and higher and higher...)
+5 basic Fort Save, +4 from Cold Weather, has never rolled above a 4 on the check when it comes to cold weather.
I think you are missing the point, if he's wearing the cold weather outfit he is properly protected at 40 to 0 Degrees and does not need to make the cold checks. He receives +5 at 0 and below.
I live in alaska, 40 degrees for us is T-shirt and hoodie weather.... not taking damage weather.
"Unprotected" means not properly clothed. They shouldnt need to make checks at all (if they have the clothing) until they make it into Irrisen, where the temperature drops.
For example, Lady Argentas guards were unprepared for the cold weather, and thus easily routed as they had already suffered some non lethal damage.... that's one of the reasons why the ulfen had frostbite (something really hard to get in 40 degree weather by the way)
So if your player was all furred up, you are a little over zealous with the cold weather checks
We had a guy fall in the river, they had to change him into other clothing (twice actually) that required some rolls because his original clothes were soaked, and the replacements weren't adequate (but better than wet stuff).
Ah, thought I had that figured out. Okay, I'll be rereading the cold weather rules and module before the next session tomorrow and issue that player an apology while poking my rules lawyers for why they didn't catch my mistake earlier. ^^;; Though they all have Cold Resist.
Thanks Pendagast.
The weather effects in the module do sound rather more severe than what Pendagast makes them sound here, so I'd double check before making apologies. Just saying. Having to backpeddle from an unnecessary apology and re-instituting the death is doubly awkward, if it proves necessary in the end.
It is not totally clear if cold weather outfits remove the need for the fortitude check in normal cold conditions, IMO. In the next step, "severe cold", a cold weather outfit will delay the save from having to make it every ten minutes back to an hour, but by RAW the "once per hour" stacking save remains, at least in my reading. Some passages in the Jade Regent AP would indicate, however, that cold weather outfits protect travelers enough in normal cold conditions to obviate the check entirely, but I am unsure if those passages can be counted as having the validity of rules.
The assumption for the severity of cold weather in this module is GREATLY over assumed.
How would anyone live or work in these areas of Golarion? 0-40 degrees is NOT severe cold weather. The rules specifically state the checks are for characters/NPCs that are UNprotected.
That protection IS proper clothing, otherwise the entire populations of these regions would be wandering around with nonlethal damage on a regular basis. Read the NPCs in these areas, are any of them sporting non lethal damage? No. Because they are dressed properly.
^___^
But ... but ... it's soooo much fun to freeze to death! Really, it IS!!
The assumption for the severity of cold weather in this module is GREATLY over assumed.
How would anyone live or work in these areas of Golarion? 0-40 degrees is NOT severe cold weather. The rules specifically state the checks are for characters/NPCs that are UNprotected.
That protection IS proper clothing, otherwise the entire populations of these regions would be wandering around with nonlethal damage on a regular basis. Read the NPCs in these areas, are any of them sporting non lethal damage? No. Because they are dressed properly.
You are probably right ( by the simple rule of logic ), but the rules leave it unclear. At least at the portal to Irrisen one has to take care of adjudicating the rules clearly.
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Sorry for the thread jack. But I'm reading the module again and got to the part that I was following.
The temperatures inside the winter pocket are considered cold (approximately 30° F during the day, and 10° F at night). Every hour spent in the wintry conditions requires a Fortitude save (DC 15, +1 per previous check) to avoid taking 1d6 points of nonlethal damage. Those who have taken nonlethal damage from exposure suffer from hypothermia (treat as fatigued), and if this condition is not remedied, they also suffer from frostbite (Core Rulebook 442). If the PCs secure cold-weather outfits before leaving Heldren, they receive a +5 bonus on Fortitude saves against
exposure to the weather while adventuring in the forest.
Double checking the page mentioned in the quote and the paragraph above.
The Core book supports Pendagast, saying that in weather between 1 degree to 40 degree F, a character with cold weather outfit doesn't need to make a check. Below that, characters with cold weather need to make the cold check every hour. And those without cold weather needs to make such a check every ten minutes.
Endure Elements negates everything that's written in the book in terms of environmental heat and cold damage (outside of lava diving... ). Cold Resist I can see as resisting the same, but wouldn't help with the worst/lethal cold damage other then resisting most of it.
Interesting disconnect in rules. For now I'll keep up doing what I've been doing. At least until the Lodge, quoting human adaptability and the level up to start following the core rules over what is listed in the module.
The problem is that, just by RAW, cold weather gear does not explicitly protect you against the need to make the fortitude check every hour, it just provides a +5 bonus. The logical chain Pendagast laid out, however, lets one reasonably conclude that the fortitude save should be waived.
And don't forget how conditions change at the portal, just to give another warning.
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FWIW, In the GM Reference discussion thread for this module, Rob McCreary stated that the rules in the module are *supposed to be* a summary of the full rules in the Core Rulebook. When in doubt, he said, use the Core Rulebook.
The cold weather rules in "The Snows of Summer" were meant to be a summary of the rules in the Core Rulebook, with the assumption that PCs in Taldor in the summer would be likely to start out "unprotected" from the weather. I can see that it's a bit unclear, however, and might seem harsher than the normal rules.
In any case, you should definitely use the standard rules for cold weather presented on page 442 of the Core Rulebook in both Taldor and Irrisen.
Should be making a new thread on this, but since there really hasn't been any deaths reported yet.
The problem is that, just by RAW, cold weather gear does not explicitly protect you against the need to make the fortitude check every hour, it just provides a +5 bonus. The logical chain Pendagast laid out, however, lets one reasonably conclude that the fortitude save should be waived.
And don't forget how conditions change at the portal, just to give another warning.
Well...yes. Both paths make sense and follow RAW depending on how you read the section on Cold Dangers. It is completely subjective to how you read those rules.
As I err towards making things easier or less complex then needed with rules, Pendagast's side is more favorable until the module throws things up that aren't covered by the Core.
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Moar Cthulthu!
Er....
Wrong thread.
Oh well, go kill some PCs!
Ia! Ia! Ftang!