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Thank you for all the great content on here everyone. I started running this campaign through Skype once the Covid'19 outbreak got serious in March; the PCs have just arrived at the base of the Pale Tower. Thank you Neil and everyone else at Paizo; I picked up the paper copy of Snows of Summer 2 years ago and have been waiting to dive into the cold. Pure satisfaction so far.
One thing that I am curious about and haven't seen addressed yet on this board is the curse attached to the Glyph of Warding. It makes sense that Nazhena would put such potent protection over her wealth, but I am wondering if most people have left it as is. Both the Perception and Disable DCs are pretty high to eliminate this risk, and if it befalls one of my PCs (and I think I know which one of them is most likely), that is really major. I can't seem to think of any way the PCs could remove the curse until they get to White Throne; no NPCs are high enough caster level in Waldsby, and the PCs won't have the spells needed themselves. How have others dealt with this? The Ring I am less concerned with; they have befriended Hatch, and he did overhear Nazhena discussing the cursed item, so they've been forewarned.
Also appreciate some of the above ideas: the love triangle with Jairess, Hestrig, and Radosek; diplomatic means of avoiding conflict; the hand-off at the teleporters; the pressure plate trap in the entry on the main floor; ice-gargoyle reinforcements if they take too long. All really great!
I kept it. The player made his save. And he was a Barbarian at that! Sometimes the dice rule in favor of the players.
Also, there is a Scroll of Remove Curse in Book 1. The atomie oracle has it. So the players likely have a means of removing the curse early on in any event.
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I kept the curse as well. The rogue was the target and failed her save, and spent much of the journey to Whitethrone in book 2 suffering from the effects (-6 to Constitution, IIRC). Even after the cleric reached level 5 and was able to cast remove curse, he failed the caster level check the first time and had to wait until the next day to try again. It was brutal, but worked out in the end.
Kept the curse as well. Barbarian got cursed. They removed it with the scroll, only to get cursed again immediately after that with the ring. the group haven't realised it yet. and I'm looking forward the next encounter.
the outcome is not a bad thing for me either. Our Barb is a real bag of HP, and it might help me create a greater feeling of risk on their way to whitethrone.
What I found truly amusing was that the Barbarian of my group managed to go several game sessions without being hurt and thus not knowing the ring was cursed. He even groused saying "but it worked fine when we fought the Winter Wolf!" until we pointed out to him that HE STAYED BACK WITH THE CHILDREN while all the squishy PCs were on the front line fighting that beast. ;) So it wasn't until some time later (and my PC died in the fight against an encounter I designed for my co-GM) that he got hurt and triggered the Ring. ;)
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Oh, that ring. That amazing, amazing ring. The first damage the hunter that put it on took was self-inflicted from a critical fail, and I think it was top 5 in the funniest things that's ever happened in our group. (And, being the tough, grizzled woodsman type, he didn't hesitate for a second to grab his handaxe and cut it off, which made it even better.)
I'm getting ready to run this AP for my group but there's one thing I'm having a problem with and I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere on here...
The globe in Q20 shows the portals around the world... but the PCs can only close the one near Heldren?
What?
Yes, I know, for story reasons the other ones have to stay open... but what in-game reason is there for the PCs to not think that they should be able to close all of them?
What OoC reason did you tell your players that the other portals can't be closed using the globe?
I can't see my players accepting that there isn't a reason that they can't shut them all down.
Maybe I could say that the defenders of the portals have to be defeated and that killing Teb Knotten and Izoze is what also them to shut the portal down...
That's a good question. Part of the problem lies with the scale. There's not one or a dozen Winter Portals. There's hundreds of them. And the enemy just has to get lucky once and the four or so adventurers are dead and there's no ending the Winter Weather.
Further, the Black Rider let them know the TRUE problem. It's Queen Elvanna. By freeing Baba Yaga, the woman who removes the Queens from Irrisen after 100 years and shakes up the power structure to prevent just this sort of situation from arising, they can stop Elvanna who is outside of their power (at this point).
Though I also had Rasputin as the real person behind Elvanna's plans, and him appearing yet again as an End Boss after they encounter Elvanna in Book 6.
But there's a simpler solution as well. The Geas of the Black Rider will compel the group to find the Hut and then find and free Baba Yaga.
You can also use Simulacrums of Elvanna at various places so they can face a lower-powered Elvanna (up to level 10, or multiple level 10 copies for higher-level groups) at earlier points of the game, and she can be a more immediate threat. (And let's face it, having an Elvanna puppet melt into snow and ice upon death is kind of in theme!)
Good point about how many there are, Tangent101, I must have missed where it said there was hundreds. (I was picturing dozens).
But what's to stop the PCs from securing themselves in the Pale Tower and working away at shutting them all down? (I didn't see anything about why they can close the Heldren portal but none of the others). I think I'll go with the idea that the defenders at the individual portals are able to easily re-open them from where the portals are. (Or that the defenders at the portals are able to prevent them from being closed in the first place, that way the PCs don't get too worried about the bad guys opening the Heldren portal again).
I may even have 3 or 4 of the other defenders defeated as well so that they're not the only group of people fighting off the encroaching winter. (And as a way to introduce new PCs in the case of a death or three in the party).
I like the idea of the simulacrums of Elvanna, but I'm running Reign of Winter directly after Curse of the Crimson Throne so it would feel like too much of the same thing. I've also ran Hell's Rebels for my group, which had various incarnations of the BBEG, so even variations on your idea would feel too similar.
The other thing I'm trying to figure out:
When the group gets to Waldsby why do they hang around there for a few days before heading to the Pale Tower?
I'm guessing a day to heal / rest, and then hopefully a few days as they wait for magic items to be made by the crafters in town / a crafter in the party. I'll have to remember that they can't just walk in to town and buy anything they want while also hoping that the group will want to buy some magical gear (I'd be shocked if they don't) and that they're willing to wait for it to be made.
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I had the Tower Guard show up one or two days after the PCs got to Waldsby. That will encourage the group not to just stay still for too long.
As for post-Book 1? The PCs can't easily turtle in the Pale Tower. First, the Geas will start tugging them toward Whitethrone and the Hut. Second, four to six people cannot hold the Tower against an armed force of dozens. It doesn't even have magical defenses to speak of. A force of a couple dozen Ice Sprites could easily infiltrate and attack the group in a group and overwhelm the PCs.
This is where Nadya comes in handy. She has skin in the game. She wants Nazhena taken out. She wants vengeance for Thora. And she's not dumb. So she'll point out that a small group of PCs can't keep the Tower for long and that they'd soon be overwhelmed. Even if the PCs can withstand 10-to-1 odds due to fortifications, 50 to 60 soldiers showing up (even without fae or ice trolls) would leave the group unable to prevail.
Nadya will urge the players to head to Whitethrone (and to kill Nazhena). The PCs should know that Nazhena is protecting the Dancing Hut itself (through letters or the like to her apprentice/lover). And given that they likely already feel some sympathy toward Nadya because of killing the remnant of her daughter Thora... and may very well want to shank the witch who did that horrible thing to Thora (and I gave Thora a death scene where she was barely in control while dying and begged the PCs to find her mom and tell her what happened to her - it *really* motivated the group, let me tell you that!) and has caused so much additional harm.
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Another aspect lies with how to motivate the group to try and free Baba Yaga. One way I did this was to turn the Black Rider into something fantastic and horrifying rather than a dying old man. Twice now I had Hommelstaub cut down by the Black Rider because as-written he is OP and on his own at the Winter Portal cannot be defeated unless he's played as an idiot. The PCs in both games met a Black Rider who was powerful and only died because he had the Ice Spike pulled out of him to empower the two Keys for the Dancing Hut.
Have him state that the Queens of Irrisen have long lied about Baba Yaga. She takes out the leaders of Irrisen so that no one daughter of Baba Yaga can gain too much power. He can tell the truth by stating "your legends claim Baba Yaga is the Greater Evil... but what harm has she inflicted on your world? She created one nation, and she built statues in another land which observe that region." (And you can always have the Maiden, Mother, and Crone actually exist to prevent another Worldwound. State it is sealing the opening of a portal to the demon lord Kostchtchie whose priest seeks to take the place. It makes more sense than the existing plot....)
The view that Baba Yaga is evil that Paizo has crafted is... imprecise. She is beyond morality. I'd personally put her alignment as either Chaotic Neutral or True Neutral. She's selfish, sure, but she doesn't inflict evil acts for the sake of evil. If you do a deed for her? She repays that debt. If you cross her? She seeks retribution. She doesn't seek to help the weak or defend the helpless... but she also doesn't go out of her way to harm people.
Thus it's no longer a question of "are we releasing a greater evil upon the world" but "are the stories of Baba Yaga exaggerated or false?" Learning over time about how Baba Yaga honors her debts and does her best not to be in debt with people will allow the PCs to realize this ancient being is the best bet to save the world by saving her. That she has done some truly deplorable things to her daughters, and that Elvanna is right to wage war on her? The PCs can learn THAT after freeing her from Rasputin. ;)
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I had the Tower Guard show up one or two days after the PCs got to Waldsby. That will encourage the group not to just stay still for too long.
But why did the group stay for even that long?
I want to be able to play out the different events, which is why I'm trying to see if there's a reason for the group to stick around in Waldsby rather than sleep the night and then head out right away. (But I'm fairly certain they'll want to buy some magical gear so it should be fine.) Using Nadya as a guide should help with that though too. She'll want to join the group in attacking the Pale Tower so, if need be, that can buy me a little bit of time in town.Everything else
Yeah, I've read through this entire thread and really liked your idea of having the Black Rider show up incredibly injured and one-shot Hommelstaub.
The idea of the Black Rider saying that Baba Yaga isn't as bad as the stories make her sound is wonderful! I had it in the back of my mind that she's not malevolent but hadn't started to consider ways to get that across to the players. The Black Rider doing so will work really well! (The main thought I was having about it is, like you said, to play up the fact that she replaces her daughter every 100 years so that none of them get too powerful.)(I'm just on my first read-through and have only read the first book so far. And at the same time I'm prepping for the last book and a half of Crimson Throne so there's some plot things that I have missed that I'm assuming I'll catch the second time around or later on in the AP.)
What OoC reason did you tell your players that the other portals can't be closed using the globe?
As suggested by another GM on the forum, I modified the globe to be an encounter. A kind of skill challenge (DND4e). So, a player had to make incantations (concentration check) each turn to lower the globe and keep it ground level while another one projects his conciousness in the globe to severe the link between the globe and the portal (several UMD check, and a geography check to identify the proper ley line to cut). Meanwhile, the other two characters must fight summoned guardians trying to kill the "spellcraft character".
OoC reason, is that each portal is linked with a specific globe, acting as a control center. Each globe maintains a single portal active, even though you can see all the other links. So, the alternative to continue the AP as intended is to travel Irrisen to each globe, fight it's guardian and deactivate them individually... not really feasible.
My players are cool though, they are concious this is an AP, so if the NPC (In this case the Black Rider) tells them they need to steal the dancing hut, they will play along.
When the group gets to Waldsby why do they hang around there for a few days before heading to the Pale Tower?
first to heal and rest. then, I'm pretty sure any wizard would like some time to scribe some scrolls, which takes some time. Also, you could stall them by making ressource scarce, so they need to wait a couple days so a caravan could bring some rations and/or equipment to town. It's pretty much their first hub of the AP, where they can sell and buy stuff, they might want some time off. Worst case scenario, they are not forced to hang around. they rest, then they go to the tower.
Also, I removed some encounters in the howlings. It seemed to me that they slowed the pace. The players have wait for months to reach whitethrone, and adding some drunk winter wolves felt like just delaying.
Also, it seemed to me that was the most eventful city block of the universe, with 6 encounters on 3 streets. I kept the running slave and the drunk winter wolves for later, and even then, my players felt it was overcrowded.
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So about 20 years ago, I started playing AD&D with a bunch of kids who found me, the new kid, and made me their friend. One in particular and I really connected and as we transitioned into 3e, we were the best of friends. I moved again in 2001 and he and I have kept in touch over the years, always with the promise of maybe playing together again. But as we each developed our own lives, started families, that promise seemed further and further away... Then, at the end of 2019, he invited me to his regular group to play though the first book of Ironfang Invasion and a bit of the second and I was hooked. Reign of Winter immediately grabbed my eye as the AP I would want to run if the time came and, now (a few weeks ago) my time has come.
There was a lull in the group's activity and I found my courage to pounce on the opportunity.
I actually started with Witchwar Legacy, setting it about 70 years prior current events at the beginning of RoW, more or less a prologue for events that will unfold. I won't go into it much here unless asked, but those high-level characters (or their legacies) that kicked the crap out of Toshanna will feature later on in RoW in varying capacities.
Snows of Summer began earlier than prescribed as well, as none of the players wanted to be FROM Heldren. So I, in my infinite wisdom, decided to have two of them be a part of Lady Argentea's caravan, a Bard and a Magus, who come across a wandering Swashbuckler, and are then ambushed by Rokhar's Raiders. Coincidentally, a local Druid has noticed some strange stuff going on in the Border wood. Animals acting odd, strange weather, and is on her way out of town when she runs across the battle unfolding around the caravan. With the PCs help, Lady Argentea's guards are triumphant and they are able to interrogate the last remaining Raider, who tells them basically everything due to a cunning game of good Bard, bad Swashbuckler.
**EDITED TO ADD that I left Izoze/any magical interference out of the Caravan fight because the PCs beat them so handily (a combination of their skills and my naivete and poor rolling) that adding them in after a defeat seemed ill conceived and sort of like cheating. Introducing the magic slowly as they get deeper into the Pocket has proven to be the correct choice.**
They then escort Lady Argentea back to Heldren where they are given a hero's welcome. The next day they are tasked to take out Rokhar and his Raiders to bring back order to the area by the Town Council. They slew the Tazlwyrm and had just passed the Snowman before the Magus fell through the ice and we ended on a cliffhanger icehanger.
Going forward, I plan on implementing a lot of the ideas discussed here (Badass Black Rider, tiered Mantle Boons, Blizzard rules for snow, etc), with my own spin on things, of course.
Anyways, that's my story so far and I'm glad to be here. Just wanted to let you all know that you helped get this middle-aged gamer back into it in a major way.
So I found solution recently. I will force fairy tale even more by shadow puppet session.
This idea I definitely saw on reddit somewhere. I plan to make shadow puppet session with Black Rider and portal and crow swarm and how mighty champions meet with Irrisen, but I have to drop somehow some combat rules and to simple them.
Curious, When you say you found a solution, what do you mean? You showed the players a shadow puppet show?
I want a reason that Baba Yaga made Irrisen in a state of permanent winter. I think I like that as someone said that she was preventing a second world wound. It also gives Baba Yaga to be seen as not a totally evil person. Is this addressed by Paizo somewhere?
1) I don't think an exact reason or list of reasons was ever given.
2) the Worldwound happened over a thousand years after Irrisen was founded, so that's probably not the reason.