Casting Cloudkill above ground level


Rules Questions

Liberty's Edge

Hey all, I hope this is the right place to ask about this. I'm running a game where the players are currently defending a small abandoned keep against a larger force. So far, they've done a good job of sowing mayhem among the enemy ranks and repelling attacks.

One of those enemies is a conjuror who can perform Cloudkill. I had the idea of the wizard performing the spell over the keep itself so that, as the fog slowly descended each round, it would spread inside the walls. The PCs are Level 11 now, but they do have a contingent of lower level NPCs that this could cause trouble for. The players, then, would have the choice of abandoning the keep or commanding their forces to retreat while they fell back to the wonderful dungeon underneath.

My question is whether this can be done? Can Cloudkill be cast in the air, or does it need to be targeted at a particular point on the ground? And if the latter is the case, does the wizard need to see the spot directly or can he measure out a certain distance and say, "Fog goes there?"

Any help or advice would be very much welcome.


The spell is called CloudKill. It creates a cloud....that kills...and generally clouds are in the sky so why would you not allow this especially if it furthers an interesting game dilemma and story line?

Shadow Lodge

It doesn't have to be on the ground (its center can be any square in a 3 dimensional grid), and the wizard does need line of sight.

Liberty's Edge

Like the others, I don't see a problem with this, though a few things to ponder: the spell says it sinks to fill lower terrain, but it doesn't give a rate of descent so you'll have to come up with something reasonable. Second, the spell moves away from you 10'/round so just remember that when you cast it.

Liberty's Edge

Thanks guys. I figured it would be OK, but wanted a second (or more) opinion.

As for rate of descent, would it be fair for that to also be 10' a round?


If the cloud moves away from you at 10' per round and also sinks...

What happens if you cast it 50' directly above your head?

Liberty's Edge

Gentleman Rogue wrote:

Thanks guys. I figured it would be OK, but wanted a second (or more) opinion.

As for rate of descent, would it be fair for that to also be 10' a round?

I think that would be reasonable.

Liberty's Edge

Quantum Steve wrote:

If the cloud moves away from you at 10' per round and also sinks...

What happens if you cast it 50' directly above your head?

The "away from you" for this spell is in the horizontal, not vertical, plane.


HangarFlying wrote:
Quantum Steve wrote:

If the cloud moves away from you at 10' per round and also sinks...

What happens if you cast it 50' directly above your head?

The "away from you" for this spell is in the horizontal, not vertical, plane.

Typically, yes.

If you were at the center of the cloud, horizontally, would it move away from you in a random direction?

My roommate and I are currently discussing casting Cloudkill on a plane with subjective gravity. I hate my brain!


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I have to disagree with casting it to appear in mid air. Cloudkill is a conjuration:

Conjuration: A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.

So the cloudkill must be cast so as to be touching the ground.
But, it's 20' high, so if you can see a point over the castle wall 20' up, you should be able to cast the spell inside the walls.

Liberty's Edge

Well, it is a cloud afterall, so I imagine water vapor or other such molecules could support it. (Slightly tongue in cheek, here.)


Phrennzy. wrote:

I have to disagree with casting it to appear in mid air. Cloudkill is a conjuration:

Conjuration: A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.

So the cloudkill must be cast so as to be touching the ground.
But, it's 20' high, so if you can see a point over the castle wall 20' up, you should be able to cast the spell inside the walls.

I don't think Cloudkill counts as a creature or object though... it's an effect.


It creates a cloud which is an object.


Keep in mind that you recalculate where it spreads based on the origin (center) of the cloud and the spread needs to go around walls, not through them (unless they're not solid walls) so your PCs should be able to safely shelter their NPCs assuming their are enclosed rooms inside the keep.

Specifically, it will go around, but not pass through, anything that blocks line of effect.

Liberty's Edge

Thanks guys, you raise some interesting points. I could point a position at the top of a wall, or perhaps over the main gate, so that the cloud would probably fall either side of the wall, depending on wind direction.

The building itself is missing a ceiling, while the floors on the upper floor have badly decayed. It leaves the keep susceptible to attacks from above. Since the party managed to damage the enemy catapults in a raid, I imagined this would be an effective way of keeping them on their toes.


If you want it to have a specific effect for the game and your players don't agree with your ruling on the "physics" of cloudkill just say the evil Wizard has an offshoot of it like "Mort's Cloud of Ickyness" or something.


The cloud is an object?! How much damage does it do if you throw it a someone?

Also does this mean you can't summon it less than 20' of the ground, since any lower would put the cloud sphere partially in the ground?

Also, it's clearly an effect, check the spell description.

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