In fact, I find these numbers a straightjacket, but when I was running 3.x I didn't dare deviate from them, because low magic/item games do not work in 3.x (or PF). Unless you use Vow of Poverty, but that's a cure worse than the disease!
So, I just have to say that I've run D&D for 20 years with no magic items and I don't think 3rd edition was especially difficult to deal with. No, it was 4e that required ridiculous hurdles that just weren't worth it to me.
But yeah, if you know the game, 3rd edition works just fine without magic items, in my experience.
Can you steal from the the dead? The dead have no rights, you can only, like, loot their bodies.
Serious answer: the whole "Getting treasure from each encounter = looting the bodies of the monsters you've slain" thing is a MMO concept, rather than a tabletop one, YMMV.
While there's always been placed treasures as well, looting the corpses goes back to the early days of D&D, well before Computer RPGs, much less MMOs.
Humanoid enemies often had magic items, which it was assumed the PCs would take.
Looking at my old copy of Keep on the Borderlands from 1980, the Evil Priest has plate+1, shield+1, an amulet and a snake staff along with jewels and other stuff.
The humanoids in early part of the module are all listed as something like "Each carries 1d6 silver pieces."For some monsters back in the day you literally had to get the treasure from the body. They had gems in their stomachs or other things.
You can't blame MMOs for this.
But back in the day you could only loot the most mythological items ever from a kill; WoW's whole "kill the Gnolls, search their pockets for a pittance of CPs" is something different IMO.
You disagree? (No insult, just checking.)
Looting the dead is standard, game assumes you're doing it. Enthusiastically describing how you're cracking jaws and loosing gold fillings, while disturbing, is setting-appropriate RP. :)
Looting dead enemy combatants is pretty common.
-Skeld
Ummm, as a member of the US military, I can tell you that it is not. It is, in fact, punishable by the Uniformed Code of Military Conduct and in addition, your fellow soldiers would label you as an undesirable person to be around.
I have serve over 10 years with the brave men and women of the US Military and NO ONE I have served with would loot a dead enemy.
This is a more modern tradition, was wide spread during WW2. The reason why things are how they are today in the US army is BECAUSE of the behavior in WW2. However you speak only of the US, UN and/or NATO troops... not ALL armies behave this way. Saddam's troops robbed tons of stuff and their enemies like wise....
Farther back in history this is how armies supplied themselves and one of the major reasons conquests occured at all.
Also as far as US troops are concerned, find me a Green Beret who hasn't stolen a car (commandeered) for transpo, grabbed food or other necessities while in country or Rangers that didn't also carry AK's for ease of access to ammo and you've found yourself a Liar.
So don't portray it all "High and mighty", I'm not saying we are rolling bodies for loose change and grabbing pocket watches, but we do take things that are reasonable and necessary. I was rather fond of my AKM, but it's not like I took it home for keepers either, it stayed in country when I no longer needed it.
Can you steal from the the dead? The dead have no rights, you can only, like, loot their bodies.
Serious answer: the whole "Getting treasure from each encounter = looting the bodies of the monsters you've slain" thing is a MMO concept, rather than a tabletop one, YMMV.
While there's always been placed treasures as well, looting the corpses goes back to the early days of D&D, well before Computer RPGs, much less MMOs.
Humanoid enemies often had magic items, which it was assumed the PCs would take.
Looking at my old copy of Keep on the Borderlands from 1980, the Evil Priest has plate+1, shield+1, an amulet and a snake staff along with jewels and other stuff.
The humanoids in early part of the module are all listed as something like "Each carries 1d6 silver pieces."For some monsters back in the day you literally had to get the treasure from the body. They had gems in their stomachs or other things.
You can't blame MMOs for this.
But back in the day you could only loot the most mythological items ever from a kill; WoW's whole "kill the Gnolls, search their pockets for a pittance of CPs" is something different IMO.
You disagree? (No insult, just checking.)
"Back in the day," i.e. 1st Ed AD&D and BECMI D&D, experience points were explicitly earned by looting (on a 1 experience point for every 1 gp taken). In fact, it was explicitly stated that any treasure that you did not actually take when found did not count toward experience points.
So, yes, you had parties killing gnolls and emptying out their pockets, as well as taking all of their gear (weapons, armor, etc.) and stripping the dungeon to the bare walls to maximize their experience gains.
"Back in the day", experience points were explicitly earned by spending GPs, not looting them.
If you thought that meant tearing out orc's nose rings, I wont hold it against you. :P
So how did you get GP to spend without looting there, buckaroo?
Mostly by taking loans from DnD banks (it was a B/X game in the early 80's, what can I tell you...)
Heh.
Who did they send after you if you didn't pay your debts, I wonder wonderingly?
It was an after school program, for extra credit; no one came after you, but you certainly wouldn't get an A+, if you see what I mean.
The goodies are held for inspection of course. Money is easy, even jewelry (relatively) but the really different stuff takes time. Some gates in my game have a detect magic built in, others utilize some bored apprentice. Depends on how busy they are / how common this type of thing is. Generally speaking though walls, towers, gates etc. have a variety of permanent magics built in. They wouldn't be all that effective in a world with large amounts of magic in items / spellcasters otherwise, would they?As for existing gear, if you went out with it, you can reenter with it. No charge. Just declare it on the way out (or, if you are a regular with your standard gear, get waved through). Crafted gear gets out this way too, just the new stuff coming in gets taxed. The assumption is that material crafted inside the walls has already paid it's due.
s for traveling, if you are wealthy enough to travel with a large amount of magic you can't afford relatively modest payments? Once you've been through those gates once, it's paid for. And if you have important news and render a service, you may very well get your money back. If you think about it the ruler / authorities probably want to have a good idea of what type of magic is floating around in their city - wouldn't you? And this opens it up for smuggling and so on.
It's pretty stright forward as taxes go and provides plenty of opportunities for role playing and social skills.
So what kind of percentage are we talking here? If it's more than a couple, I'm not visiting a new town unless I absolutely have too. Maybe leave most of the gear and party in the woods and send one guy in for supplies and rumors. Even 5% of your total wealth at each new town adds up really quick.
Plus the overhead for the players and GM of keeping track of which items have already been taxed in which places.It probably would work fairly well if you had a home base from which you went out on adventures and returned with your loot. My groups tend to be world travelers. Some places we'll visit more than once, some will just be stops on the way.
The percentage is low, typically 1-5% depending on the ruler and circumstances (1-2% is typical, more indicates desperation, paranoia or greed). Villages and the like don't charge what is essentially a defense tax as they don't have them. Small walled towns tend to charge low rates on cash because they don't have the means to detect / assess magic and entry is not as desirable. The custom depends on locale too, a wall tax is heavier / more rigorously enforced in areas where the defense is likely to be tested (making entry more desirable as well). If you are travelling at the behest of a ruler / noble / merchant guild you can get a writ of passage exempting you from travel related taxes as well (or lowering / fixing them). The origin of the gate tax is an assessment on merchants, farmers etc. It's the price of doing business inside the safety of the cities walls / in the city markets. Needless to say, setting up a stall just outside the gates would be frowned on :)
My adventurers tend to set up base and operate out of a fixed locale. The world travel (and they have done some) is generally sponsored exempting them from gate taxes (and often giving them accomodations) or the type of public service deed that gets you given free access. A number of my players over the years have become Champions of certain towns / cities which gives exemption in that town / city. And if I forgot, travelling on Holy Mother Church's business gets an exemption (I have a very "catholic" High Church of Law - LG/LN/LE) as well as on the business of certain other powerful entities :) Politics are fun.
I would say it would only apply to Major Towns/Cities/etc
Pretty much, as noted above.
"Back in the day", experience points were explicitly earned by spending GPs, not looting them.
1st Ed AD&D Player's Handbook, pg. 106: "Experience is the measure of a character's ability in his or her chosen profession, the character's class. Each player character begins the campaign at 1st level with no experience points accumulated. Thereafter, as he or she completes adventures and returns to an established base of operations, the Dungeon Master will award experience points to the character for treasure gained and opponents captured or slain and for solving or overcoming problems through professional means...
Gaining experience points through the acquisition of gold pieces and by slaying monsters might be questioned by some individuals as non-representative of how an actual character would become more able in his or her class. Admittedly, this is so, if the existence of spell casting clerics, druids, magic-users, and illusionists is (unrealistically) granted; likewise, dwarven superheroes, paladins, elven thieves, half-orc assassins, and the like might gain real experience from altogether different sorts of activities. This is a game, however, a fantasy game, and a suspension of disbelief is required...
As a rule, one point of experience will be awarded for one gold piece gained by a character, with copper pieces, silver pieces, electrum pieces, platinum pieces, gems, jewelry, and like treasure being converted to a gold piece value. Magic items gained and retained have only a low experience point value, for they benefit the character through their use. Magic items gained and sold immediately are treated as gold pieces, the selling price bringing an award in experience on the stated one for one basis..."
1st Ed Dungeon Master's Guide, pg. 85: "Treasure must be physically taken out of the dungeon or lair and turned into a transportable medium or stored in the player's stronghold to be counted for experience points.
All items (including magic) or creatures sold for gold pieces prior to the awarding of experience points for an adventure must be considered as treasure taken, and the gold pieces received for the sale add to the total treasure taken. (Those magic items not sold gain only a relatively small amount of experience points, for their value is in their usage.)"
What you may be confusing the very clear rules above with were the training costs for gaining an experience level (current level x 1,500 gp per week; pg. 86 of the Dungeon Master's Guide).
EDIT: Ninja'd with the basic Dungeon Master's Guide info. Probably what I deserve for being complete.
In the old Blackmoor campaign (Dave Arneson's game) you had to spend money to get experience as I recall. You did so in an "area of interest" which led to some major debauchery and wild spending sprees...
I saw this as a houserule in some games and I think there was another (unofficial) D&D related "supplement" that had this feature. Ahem, spending loot to gain experience, not necessarily wild debauchery and parties. Maybe an article in The Strategic Review / The Dragon or another gaming mag too. it's been quite a while...
Humanoid enemies often had magic items, which it was assumed the PCs would take.
Looking at my old copy of Keep on the Borderlands from 1980, the Evil Priest has plate+1, shield+1, an amulet and a snake staff along with jewels and other stuff.
The humanoids in early part of the module are all listed as something like "Each carries 1d6 silver pieces."For some monsters back in the day you literally had to get the treasure from the body. They had gems in their stomachs or other things.
You can't blame MMOs for this.
But back in the day you could only loot the most mythological items ever from a kill; WoW's whole "kill the Gnolls, search their pockets for a pittance of CPs" is something different IMO.
You disagree? (No insult, just checking.)
Wait, How is the D6 Silver Pieces from an Orc in the Keep on the Borderlands different from a Pittance of CPs in WoW from a Gnoll? Aren't we talking the same mechanic there?
And "the most mythological items ever from a Kill" has the same thing in WoW doesn't it? So I guess I don't understand what you're trying to say.
Both games, killing/looting low level scrubs gets you low level rewards, and killing/looting "bosses" gets you better treasure. Unless you feel that low level scrubs never carry pocket change on them.
The Main difference in how much we scavangered, was usually how tight the GM was with treasure. If it didn't come by often, we did usually take used weapons, armor, pelts, and anything else we thought we might be able to sell. You had to pay for Training Costs somehow.
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It would not be a far stretch to have a more governed feel to a campaign:
As such, if it were to explore the lost cairn of the mad wizard king, Perhaps I need a permit/claim, which needs to be filed with the local regency. Like a prospector. I file my permit, prove that I have the capability, organization and resources to stake the claim and am not some wild activist claiming up every dungeon entrance to never do anything with it, and off I go.
Once I take my haul, the government may have certain claims to items found with in, "Ah the sword of the king of gondolin, yes that belongs to us" and tax the rest as those items and treasures were located with in the lands of the government doing the taxing.
With all these taxes and fees and permits and such, the players might well need to be financed and/or employed/sponsored by a wealthy person or organization, much like it were in the Real world, which I believe is the inspiration for the Pathfinder Society int he first place.
After several missions and saving of ones wealth, the group maybe able to finance their own expeditions.
the process of the governmental taxing and cataloguing would put the items in escrow, allowing those who believed they had claims to such items as lost/stolen or heir to a fortune, at which time court proceedings would occur to determine the validity of the claim. Perchance, very powerful or expensive items might even require an adventuring group be hired to investigate the truth of such a claim in a far off land (lower level PCs could be hired to find the truth of a higher level groups haul)
However, depending on that aw of land, even if the item did have a claimant, the PCs might be owed a finders fee, as they incurred legitimate expense in recovering the item, and if the claimant could not pay the finders fee (and associated court costs for filing and processing) the claim would be dismissed and the item allotted to the PCs.
this could also be an excellent source of liquidating items the PC's did not want to keep as the Royal (or Lordly) treasury would be the place most likely to have that kind of gold to buy off items to add to the Lord's vaults, possibly to be sold or traded to another noble, country, or king who might have want or need of the item.
So if an Items 'worth' is 15k gold, by the time the PCs paid the taxes, tarriffs, permit fees and what not the realized return would be 7.5k which is right where it should be. So technically, they would have a 50% overhead for adventuring.
A local government could also tax/register any magic item made/crafted in the confines of their land as such powerful things need to be permitted! (which would explain why wizard towers are out in the middle of nowhere, because they are tax dodgers!
This could all create some great plot hooks in and of it's self as the party rouge tries to conceal items he doesnt want to get taxed, or the party ends up in a dungeon they don't have a permit/claim filed for, or the powers that be are blocking the permitting process and time is running out!
Not to mention the fun the party bard would have brokering all the good and services and permits and taxes for the party and their finds.
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what the-
so wait now you want me to do all my tax paperwork in Golarion, too?
okay sure but my refund better be large and include a +2 longsword.
...It would not be a far stretch to have a more governed feel to a campaign:
As such, if it were to explore the lost cairn of the mad wizard king, Perhaps I need a permit/claim, which needs to be filed with the local regency. Like a prospector. I file my permit, prove that I have the capability, organization and resources to stake the claim and am not some wild activist claiming up every dungeon entrance to never do anything with it, and off I go.
Once I take my haul, the government may have certain claims to items found with in, "Ah the sword of the king of gondolin, yes that belongs to us" and tax the rest as those items and treasures were located with in the lands of the government doing the taxing.
With all these taxes and fees and permits and such, the players might well need to be financed and/or employed/sponsored by a wealthy person or organization, much like it were in the Real world, which I believe is the inspiration for the Pathfinder Society int he first place.
After several missions and saving of ones wealth, the group maybe able to finance their own expeditions.
the process of the governmental taxing and cataloguing would put the items in escrow, allowing those who believed they had claims to such items as lost/stolen or heir to a fortune, at which time court proceedings would occur to determine the validity of the claim. Perchance, very powerful or expensive items might even require an adventuring group be hired to investigate the truth of such a claim in a far off land (lower level PCs could be hired to find the truth of a higher level groups haul)
However, depending on that aw of land, even if the item did have a claimant, the PCs might be owed a finders fee, as they incurred legitimate expense in recovering the item, and if the claimant could not pay the finders fee (and associated court costs for filing and processing) the claim would be dismissed and the item allotted to the PCs.
this could also be an excellent source of liquidating items the
DnD was not founded as a heroic game, I dunno why people keep trying to make it a game about heroes?
You can't have it both ways.
"I want some system that returns ALL the loot to it's rightful owners"
"I want a system that gives me ALL the WBL I'm 'supposed to have'"
In order to do that, the party would have to receive pay/ or a cut of treasure from a governmental or organization source that would receive the proceeds of unclaimable goods"
so there for the hoardes would have to be huger, because some or most of the stuff would have some wild claim to the stuff, according to posts here.
In order to give you your cut or your pay, your benefactor would have to be making money somehow. giving stuff away to people who claim it doesn't make money (leaving no money to pay PCs)
So whether the PCs give the stuff away or the benefactor does, adventuring comes to a screeching fault when there is no money for healing pots and if you find one someone says "oh thank you for finding aunt matildas healing drought! before you can gulp it down and expire from bleed damage...
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looting the deceased is a common assumption.
Pathfinder/D&D characters are not the paragons of idealistic foolish heroism we make them out to be.
they are gritty bandits whom are just so powerful, that people respect them out of fear.
one day's heroes could be the next day's bandits.
in fact, one of the most common motivations for slaughtering orcish encampments or assassinating dragons, is not the joy of Heroism, but the Greedy Promise of wealth.
Even the most goodly and difficult to play of morally upstanding heroes, such as paladins or good aligned clerics, tend to be after the gold.
Not looting the fallen is a pretty modern concept.
When Shakespeare wrote "Cry 'Havoc!' and let slip the dogs of war" he wasn't talking about sending soldiers to war. He was talking about sending victorious soldiers out to loot. That's what the command "havoc" meant: the men were free to head in and pillage what they could carry.
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Even Mercenaries loot the dead.
you have so many similar flavors of Pathfinder
ways to get appropriate wealth while being supported by mechanics
Bandits who murder and rob thier victims
Mercenaries who murder and rob their victims
Tomb robbers
Pirates who pillage and plunder
Assassins who kill for the money
Bold Adventurers driven by greed
things that aren't very well supported by mechanics unless you don't mind being inferior to everyone else
Ascetic with a vow of poverty (when you realize that wealth is power, you are going to wish you never made that vow, and instead, make another bandit)
Goodie two shoes who redeems the wicked (when your DM fails to allow you to redeem the demon lord and expects to corrupt your innocence by making you kill, your concept is invalid, try a bandit)
The Hero who works for the good of the people out of the kindness of their own heart (when you die from refusing one too many rewards, you are going to wish you rolled up a bandit like the smart gamer to your left)
the pacifist (unless you are an NPC, the first combat encounter you face will butcher your concept)
the merchant (unless you are an NPC, PCs can never get the sale Values an NPC can)
the craftsman (unless you are an int based caster) (crafting rules fricken take forever, especially for poisons, composite bows, heavy armor, and anything made of special materials)
the sickly noble scion, (as compelling a protagonist idea it may be in a book, the lost hit points from that low constitution will result in your immediate death the moment you cut your finger on a toothpick.)
non-combatant tagalong child (playing this is akin to begging both for hentai references from the DM, and to be bored in combat at the same time.)
Androgynous characters of questionable classes and mysterious identity. (the DM will likely record your character's name, gender, race, class, and archetypes on a piece of paper in front of everyone.)
European colonization of the Americas, Australia, Africa, and Asia was about killing the locals enslaving them and stealing their land, goods and resources.We are all descended from murderous thieves.
- The Lord of the Rings is the only place where there is no serious looting. The hobbits all get daggers from the barrow, but Tom Bombadil explicitly states that the only way to get rid of the evil spell on the barrow is to have the treasures scattered (not moved as a whole to a new location by a new owner), so I wouldn't count this. Otherwise the only instance of "looting" that happens is after Boromir dies Legolas is seen walking around collecting orc arrows as he is out of his own.
Unless it only happens in the movie, Aragorn "loots" Boromirs bracers. ^^
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IIRC, Isildur loots the Ring from Sauron's body. Deagol loots it from the riverbed where Isildur died. Gollum/Smeagol loots it from Deagol's body. Bilbo steals it from Gollum.
Also the hobbits receive free equipment from a great many people. Not all PCs (very very few in fact) get this kind of help for free.
BTW : you guys noticed that the OP has not commented a single time on this thread, right ? Basically we are just speaking among ourselves here.
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IIRC, Isildur loots the Ring from Sauron's body. Deagol loots it from the riverbed where Isildur died. Gollum/Smeagol loots it from Deagol's body. Bilbo steals it from Gollum.
Also the hobbits receive free equipment from a great many people. Not all PCs (very very few in fact) get this kind of help for free.
BTW : you guys noticed that the OP has not commented a single time on this thread, right ? Basically we are just speaking among ourselves here.
Fire and forget threads. We've got 4 pages of interesting banter on it, the OP was just the impetus.
Loot and plunder used to be primary motives in old school warfare. You looted a city, you sacked a town, and you ate up food. Its why warfare in the old days was ironically more and less horrible. More because it hit harder, less because it meant you couldn't have a huge rampaging warmachine since well..they wanted to eat and carry around 'baggage.'
A lot of medieval battles end up being decided for the weaker side because of greed. Tours and Agincourt stand out. In both cases, the attacking 'superior' force (Moors in the first, Franks in the second) ended up over-extending themselves for wanting to loot.
PC looting comes down to how the DM portrays it. If a tomb contains things that aren't instantly lootable, the WBL can be made up by having rewards be comensurately higher. Repurposing enemy equipment though can be squicky when thought about too much, though..
"Hey, isn't that the plate+2 the evil cleric was /just/ wearing."
"Yeah. Uh, can I get a prestidig?"
Looting though is ubquitious because of the Gygaxian model. You are nameless guy who goes into place of badness to amass wealth. Modern gamer though has moved from this, for good or ill (mostly good I think).
As for how a merchant isn't feasible, thats only if your DM is kind of a jerk. A guy with profession merchant should be able to sell his stuff like any other merchant would. We're playing PF, not 4e. Your DM also isn't a robot running a program (probably).
The game does seem terrified that at any moment our heroes might decide to make money in a way that doesn't involving risking their lives, or murder though.
- The Lord of the Rings is the only place where there is no serious looting. The hobbits all get daggers from the barrow, but Tom Bombadil explicitly states that the only way to get rid of the evil spell on the barrow is to have the treasures scattered (not moved as a whole to a new location by a new owner), so I wouldn't count this. Otherwise the only instance of "looting" that happens is after Boromir dies Legolas is seen walking around collecting orc arrows as he is out of his own.Unless it only happens in the movie, Aragorn "loots" Boromirs bracers. ^^
He didn't even make a Heal check to stabilize Boromir first; Chaotic Neutral at best.
The thing is Boromir was to close to death the save. He basically was at 1 Wound Point and was taking bleed damage.
And IIRC in the Books Boromir hands or tells him to take the Bracers.
They were mentioned when he goes to Gondor and claims leadership of the "Army of the Dead". He states Boromir gave him the bracers as a sign of loyalty to the True Heir of Gondor.
It might have been the game... I don't remember...
It has been a while since I read the books or played/Watched the game...
Regarding the OP: Necromancer Games put out (the EXCELLENT) Tomb of Abysthor for third edition. The party is out to reclaim the burial vaults of a dwindling LG faith. Said vaults have lots of bad monsters/people in them now and have expanded to bigger areas. So, you might see the coffin of a dead paladin here and a shrine to Orcus over there.
In several spots, it specifically states that good characters will be punished/suffer penalties if they loot/desecrate/rob/whatever certain areas.
I would think there would be more of this, whether in the adventures themselves or via GM oversight. Good characters looting tombs, etc would seem to be at least worth pondering in view of alignment. Of course, it would likely make the game less fun for said characters...
I love this inscription on the tomb of Cyrus the Great:
"Passer-by, I am Cyrus, who gave the Persians an empire, and was king of Asia. Grudge me not, therefore, this monument!"
I read that as ,"show a little respect and don't steal my stuff!"
So, I just have to say that I've run D&D for 20 years with no magic items and I don't think 3rd edition was especially difficult to deal with. No, it was 4e that required ridiculous hurdles that just weren't worth it to me.
But yeah, if you know the game, 3rd edition works just fine without magic items, in my experience.
What do you do to keep your crunch balanced at the higher levels?
For example, an Iron Golem gets: 2 slams +28 (2d10+16/19–20).
Each hit has a 50% chance to hit AC 39, and an average of 27 damage, excluding critical hits.
How do you keep your PCs from becoming tomato paste?
So, I just have to say that I've run D&D for 20 years with no magic items and I don't think 3rd edition was especially difficult to deal with. No, it was 4e that required ridiculous hurdles that just weren't worth it to me.But yeah, if you know the game, 3rd edition works just fine without magic items, in my experience.
What do you do to keep your crunch balanced at the higher levels?
For example, an Iron Golem gets: 2 slams +28 (2d10+16/19–20).
Each hit has a 50% chance to hit AC 39, and an average of 27 damage, excluding critical hits.How do you keep your PCs from becoming tomato paste?
I don't know what he does; but in my game (lower than normal magic items) I increase the challenge rating of creatures with DR/Magic. It compensates in experience and (on my end) effects what they run into in encounters. In a low magic game some creatures are simply more dangerous. Effectively the PCs are less powerful too, and again that needs to be taken into account.
For those on -10 no longer have a need for it.
So, I just have to say that I've run D&D for 20 years with no magic items and I don't think 3rd edition was especially difficult to deal with. No, it was 4e that required ridiculous hurdles that just weren't worth it to me.
But yeah, if you know the game, 3rd edition works just fine without magic items, in my experience.
What do you do to keep your crunch balanced at the higher levels?
For example, an Iron Golem gets: 2 slams +28 (2d10+16/19–20).
Each hit has a 50% chance to hit AC 39, and an average of 27 damage, excluding critical hits.How do you keep your PCs from becoming tomato paste?
Really good AC and/or tactic bottles to keep all the paste inside.
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Without magic items, everything else on top brings you close to being good enough but not quite. Its the main reason why my monk/fighter/kickboxer is still alive despite being in the front line and not having any significantly AC buffing or ability buffing items. If the dm started throwing some traditional hard hitting monsters at the party, he'd be killed in three rounds despite having a highish AC. Heck, I could create a fighter of the same level, same offensive build with half his wealth who could kill him in three rounds. On a side note, I'd keep a close eye on how quickly the numbers for monsters increases. Especially in a low magic setting since monsters in monster manuals or the bestiary are not created with the assumption that the pcs have jack squat in the magic item department for their level. One or two dms I knew had the habit of scrutinising the stat blocks of monsters before a game. If they didn't like how a creature listed as CR 10 pushed the listed CR with their stat block, they'd raise it by 1 which in this case, was an 11. Been in a game where a dick dm killed players over and over. Close to no magic items and the party was low level. However, the stat blocks of monsters increased at an alarming pace. Some so quickly, that no one had a chance against a barghest. TPK all round. Horrendous game. I only came to enjoy it by not playing seriously and viewing it from the opposite end of the spectrum.
Did they ask, can we just kill some goblins or bugbears or something?