Goblin Squad Member
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That was a joke.
There have been some really great and fun games that have come out in the past few years but the focus lately on getting to max level fast to start playing the "real" game has left a bad taste in my mouth.
I want to experience a game that I can play for more than a month before reaching the highest advancement outside of gear. I want to spend years developing a character, experiencing it's story and completely devoting myself to it.
With PFO I think I've finally found that game again.
So to all the "advancements" MMO's have made with Fast Travel, Auction Houses, Non-existent Death Penalties, etc. I say, "no thanks!"
It's okay to slow down and spend some time in this fantasy world.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Highest gear advancement will probably be relatively quick in comparison to other games, you will probably hit 95% of your damage/defense potential (in one method of combat) after a month or two. After that, it's training other options. Crafting will probably be similar, for one category of item.
Really blew my mind toward the end of Rift's beta testing, a Dev in an interview, said that its ok with them if players reached max level within 2 weeks because "that's where the main gam focus is anyway".
I was like how much did Rift cost to make? And your ok with people blowing through all that content in 2 weeks?? 0.o
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Goblin Squad Member
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Oh yeah, I miss the days of EQ1 where you had to keep your nose to a grindstone in order to get anywhere, and you had to power that grindstone with a treadmill that just keeps getting steeper. If you tried to explore a bit in a new area after levelling out of your previous one, you were likely to die, lose a level, and get to go back to the content which had stopped giving XP just an hour earlier. Oh, and you better plant your butt on one spawn point with a group even if they're annoying, because the mediocre gains you get for playing it safe are huge compared to the harsh penalties you'd incur for acts of daring or curiosity.
That was a 'joke'.
The reason games aren't that insanely grind-heavy anymore is because the market is full of options. Sony got away with torturing their players in EQ1 for a while because they only had Ultima Online and Asheron's Call to compete with. If you want to make the game harder, play it blindfolded and leave the rest of us out of your desire for virtual masochism.
By the way, there is no maximum level, no 'endgame', and while gear will enable you to use certain character abilities (sword skills are pretty useless without a sword), there isn't a point when your character is just there to fill out a pile of 'phat lewtz'. Read the developer blog.
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Goblin Squad Member
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In NWN Ricterm the record was one girl made level 20 in just under 24 hours. That was on a new server, so no help from higher level guild mates.
I never played WoW but had a friend claimed his WoW guild, back in the early days when level 60 was the goal, could level new characters to 60 with 48 hours continous play, though that was with high level guild mates helping out giving gear and nannying.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So to all the "advancements" MMO's have made with Fast Travel, Auction Houses, Non-existent Death Penalties, etc. I say, "no thanks!"
I agree with most of this. Definitely a big NO to Auction House (the WoW wannebees can go back to WoW for AHs). Definitely need death penalties, and even a possible extra trip wondering death realm (Eternal Lands, and others) or can't do no action other than moving about, until revived (UO). Fast Travel is still an option but done correctly. You pay hugely for use of teleport gates, or be very powerful wizard to cast decent teleport, or druids doing tree walking transpotation. Normal means of fast travel would be mounts to speed up travel, but comes at maintenance cost for up keep, and they can die too, get stolen, etc. No other forms of speed bursts, simply as a result of getting a flag.
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Goblin Squad Member
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On that note, I, on the other hand, would like to see player-owned auction houses.
Not global auction house, but like every so and so (say tuesday and friday) we sell a super cool item off to the highest bidder in a local settlement. Makes for a fun experience (and I don't mean like takes a week to do. I mean like it happens for an hour.)
Mind you, I still want the normal economy of "I pay you now, I get goods now." But there's that occasional fun in bidding.
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Any rate, really excited for PFO :)
OP: try out EVE for a while to get a taste for the type of progression Pathinder Online appears to be going for. In EVE you can do things straight away, but to maximise power in one aspect of the game takes months. The final increments of a given skill always takes days to weeks to learn. One therefore becomes 80% effective relatively quickly but it may take a couple months to get that skillset to 100%, which is where the minimaxers aim to be.
Valadur: Couldn't agree with you more. I was in Rift alpha testing and it was clear from the closed forums that the most vocal component wanted an easymode WoW clone. I just couldn't force myself to play after a month of testing. I started EVE after that and my account is 2 years old and still going. That's the longest I have been in any MMORPG including my first, EQ1.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Linolea, I did have my hand at EVE and I am looking forward to the same kind of skill progression in PFO. I've also played Wurm Online which has a use based skill progression that gives less return the higher skill you have resulting in a slow incline to a max stat.
It's these games that I see people stick around a lot longer for because there is always more to work towards.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Really blew my mind toward the end of Rift's beta testing, a Dev in an interview, said that its ok with them if players reached max level within 2 weeks because "that's where the main gam focus is anyway".
I was like how much did Rift cost to make? And your ok with people blowing through all that content in 2 weeks?? 0.o
That was why I left Rift so soon after joining it. Sad that so many MMO Devs don't take pride in their work that they believe that their target audience is min/maxers who will only be interested in end game & high level content.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Indeed, this game will be more like an endless jog into the sunset rather than a treadmill.
The metaphorical difference between the two is that one involves constantly evolving content while the other involves repeating the same crap over and over again.
The fact that advancement is structured like EVE rather than vanilla themeparks makes it even better. If you look at a chart for number of EVE subs over time, you'll see that it is always upward sloping - meaning they always add more players than they lose. Charts for themeparks usually show a lot of growth early on and then a lot of fluctuation (predominantly negative) thereafter.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I go into ever new MMO I am looking forward to (which is sadly fewer and fewer each year) with the idea that I am going to take my time with my character, and explore the world. Outside of Eve, though, this isn't really much of an option.
When as little as one level means you are no longer able to play out conent with friends, and the community doesn't really come together until end game, then the motivation is on progressing as fast a possible, at least for social players. I tried really hard in SWTOR to take my time and see everything, but by the end of the first week the power levelers in guild were already antsy to be running end game stuff, and if I don't get caught up I would have no reason to every interact with those people. So grind away.
I like the idea of a fresh level 1 with almost no skill points could reasonable provide help to players who have spent weeks in game. That the ability to play socially is not tied to level, gear progression or unlocks. I hope PFO offers this sort of alternative.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I go into ever new MMO I am looking forward to (which is sadly fewer and fewer each year) with the idea that I am going to take my time with my character, and explore the world. Outside of Eve, though, this isn't really much of an option.
When as little as one level means you are no longer able to play out conent with friends, and the community doesn't really come together until end game, then the motivation is on progressing as fast a possible, at least for social players. I tried really hard in SWTOR to take my time and see everything, but by the end of the first week the power levelers in guild were already antsy to be running end game stuff, and if I don't get caught up I would have no reason to every interact with those people. So grind away.
I like the idea of a fresh level 1 with almost no skill points could reasonable provide help to players who have spent weeks in game. That the ability to play socially is not tied to level, gear progression or unlocks. I hope PFO offers this sort of alternative.
I played SWTOR for about 6 weeks, maybe 8. I got 2 characters to 50, but the endgame was awful. The other guys (I had 5 toons) were 22, 35 and 40. They all had the same leveling path, and there were only 4 real options for class. The PvP engine was frickin' horrible with lag out the wazoo! That was a nightmare, but going to battlegrounds at level 50 was the only was to get the higher level gear. It quickly became a drag to try for nothing. What a shame too. I was really loooking forward to a couple of years of enjoyment.
This sounds like a refreshing change. I do play EVE now but am so far behind the early guys (11 years now) I want a fresh start....and sadly this game may take me well into my 60s. Not sure how I feel about that, but at least I am above ground. I'll be playing a Dwarf, so may not stay above ground for long. Hmmm....