moafnsteel |
Okay so I have played pathfinder for awhile now but have never played or seen played a druid that could use wild shape. My problem is that I am creating a level 19 druid but have no idea how to figure out my attacks and stats for my wild shape. I have read the spell descriptions (ex. elemental body IV) and see what I get a bonus to but what do I use the beastiary for? Just for the special abilities and all that or for the stats as well? Also when looking at the melee for Air Elemental it says 2 Slams + 17 (2d6+6) what does this mean or do I just ignore that part? Thank you in advance and sorry for being so noobish lol
Weirdo |
You use the bestiary to see what special abilities you get, including movement speeds and natural attacks. Your ability modifiers and natural armour bonus is determined by the spell.
The air elemental entry says that that monster gets 2 slam attacks in a full-attack action, with a +17 to hit, and deals 2d6+6 damage for each one.
As a wild shaped druid you need to know what type of attack you get (2 slam), the damage dice (2d6), and what the multiplier is for your strength modifier (x1; the attack deals +6 strength for the elemental which has a str modifier of +22).
So you will gain 2 slam attacks which deal 2d6+Str damage. Your attack modifier will be your BAB+Str+Misc modifiers (usually Amulet of Mighty Fists, possibly weapon focus (slam)). Use your modifier Strength value in these calculations. Don't worry about the elemental's attack modifier, it's irrelevant.
You also get, as described in the spell, immunity to bleed damage, critical hits, and sneak attacks, DR 5/—, Fly 120(Perfect), Darkvision 60ft, and Whirlwind. Note that while you use the size of the elemental to determine the size of the whirlwind, the DC to escape the whirlwind is equal to the DC for the spell used to assume elemental form (in this case, 17+Wis).
Don't worry about being confused by Wild Shape, polymorphing is a little tricky. Seems like you're jumping in the deep end, though, starting a 19th level druid when you've never seen Wild Shape in action before.
moafnsteel |
Thank you so much for the information!! I am kind of worried about the character to be honest, I just needed a character that was self sufficent and can heal self. I was going to be a ranger but I really like wild shape, lol. For the slam damage the spells gives me like +4 or +6 to my strength and my strength before that and before any extra gear I buy is already a 20 so would I use my strength modifer instead of the +6. Thanks again
Weirdo |
Yes, the spell gives you an additional bonus that is added to your strength score. So if your baseline strength is 20 and you have a Belt of Strength +4, and you turn into a Huge Air Elemental (getting another +4 size bonus to Str), then your total Str in Wild Shape is 28 and your modifier is +9.
If you are worried about Wild Shape I recommend figuring out the stats for everything you think you might turn into before the game. Write down your attacks, new AC, special abilities, and movement speed, and keep that extra reference handy. That way you don't need to sort this stuff out in the middle of a session.
Enjoy Wild Shape, it's a beautiful thing.
moafnsteel |
so I take it my AC is figured out the same way? I know I don't count my armor unless it has "wild" enchantment, so does that mean that I do not count any of my extra equipment like my belt of physical might? So basically I take my dex+natural AC bonus (per spell)+feats? Thanks and sorry I keep asking questions I just want to make sure I am doing it right.
Darkwolf117 |
Magic items still continue to function, though you can't activate things that need special activation. So your belt will still provide its stat bonuses while you are wildshaped, but if you had a ring of invisibility that you would need to activate on command, you wouldn't be able to access that in the meantime. Armor bonuses don't work simply because they aren't there to help you out anymore.
Bracers of Armor, on the other hand, as they provide a constant and magical armor bonus, would continue to function while wildshaped.
In theory, you should now have a +8 armor bonus from the bracers, while wildshaped or not, and all of the enchantments of the armor, while wildshaped or not. Can get expensive, and takes up two item slots though.
I believe that should work anyway. Just something to think about :P
moafnsteel |
also money is not an issue for me I have almost 900K to spend. I bought catskin leather or something like that, that gives me shadow and halfs my dam if I fall. The campaign I am playing is focused on being self-sufficent and stealthy and since I am starting at a level 19 I figure hey why not be a druid since I have always wanted to play a druid once they get to level 4 (for wildshape) lol.
Darkwolf117 |
A deflection bonus does stack with an armor bonus. In general, if items provide different types of bonuses, they'll stack. Same typed bonuses usually do not (dodge bonuses to AC being the most notable exception, as dodge bonuses always stack with other dodge bonuses).
So, with bracers giving a +8 armor bonus to AC, they won't stack with most armors for added defense (such as the +3 your catskin leather would provide). In that case, you just use the higher bonus (the +8 from Bracers).
Since the amulet (reslotted ring?) provides a deflection bonus, that will stack when factoring into your AC. If you had a deflection bonus from something else though (such as the Shield of Faith spell) only the higher bonus would apply.
Some common bonus types to factor into AC - Armor, Shield, Dexterity, Natural, Deflection, and (occasionally) Dodge and Size.
Two things to keep in mind when wildshaping would be Size and Natural.
While larger than medium, you start taking size penalties to AC, as you are larger and easier to hit. When smaller than medium, you have a bonus from Size to your AC (you can see the specifics here).
Also, while wildshaping you'll probably have a Natural armor bonus. If you use a spell like Barkskin or have an Amulet of Natural Armor, these actually will stack with the original natural armor bonus, because they are providing an enhancement bonus onto that natural armor bonus, so there isn't a conflict on the types (though Barkskin and the Amulet wouldn't stack with each other). This is similar to how armor enhancement bonuses go on top of the armor's original bonus.
And, I can't say I've played a druid up to high levels with the opportunity to wildshape frequently, but yeah, seems like a fun ability. Hope it goes well for you :P
Weirdo |
Darkwolf has a lot of good information on magic items, but unfortunately two bits of misinformation on Bracers of Armor.
First, bracers of armor don't work in wild shape. While most continuous items still work, items that provide armor bonuses do not function, whether it's actual physical armor or bracers of armor. Ask your DM about this, though, they might make an exception. Otherwise, you'll want Wild armor, probably a Dragonhide breastplate - expensive but worth it if you've got 900K and expect to be in combat.
Items that provide constant bonuses and do not need to be activated continue to function while melded in this way (with the exception of armor and shield bonuses, which cease to function).
Second, if your armor bonus from either the bracers or the magic armor stops working, the special properties on that piece stop working as well. So if you have +1 Heavy Fortification Bracers with a +5 Full Plate, you don't get the Heavy Fortification property.
Bracers of armor and ordinary armor do not stack. If a creature receives a larger armor bonus from another source, the bracers of armor cease functioning and do not grant their armor bonus or their armor special abilities. If the bracers of armor grant a larger armor bonus, the other source of armor ceases functioning.
Also, since you're new to Wild Shape, might I recommend the Quick Wild Shape feat? At level 19 you will be able to turn into any Wild Shape form as a swift action. That's really nice. You can swift change into a tiger and pounce on someone in the first round of combat, or swift change into an air elemental and double move for 240ft. Or change into an air elemental, fly somewhere, and change into something else in the same round.
Darkwolf117 |
Hmm, I'm not entirely convinced on those. I admit I could certainly be wrong on them, but...
Items that provide constant bonuses and do not need to be activated continue to function while melded in this way (with the exception of armor and shield bonuses, which cease to function).
I see this as saying that armor and shields themselves will not provide the bonus that they normally do. That is, wearing hide armor won't give you any armor bonus, because it is melded into your form. Not really providing much for you there.
The other enchantments are constant bonuses though. So while the armor bonus may not be applicable in wild shape, I'd think the other ones still would.
As a comparison, with a Ring of Energy Resistance, you still get that energy resistance while polymorphed. With Hide Armor of Energy Resistance, it makes sense for the armor bonus to stop functioning while polymorphed, but not the Energy Resistance.
Second, if your armor bonus from either the bracers or the magic armor stops working, the special properties on that piece stop working as well. So if you have +1 Heavy Fortification Bracers with a +5 Full Plate, you don't get the Heavy Fortification property.
Bracers of Armor wrote:Bracers of armor and ordinary armor do not stack. If a creature receives a larger armor bonus from another source, the bracers of armor cease functioning and do not grant their armor bonus or their armor special abilities. If the bracers of armor grant a larger armor bonus, the other source of armor ceases functioning.
It's definitely true that the Bracers stop functioning, including dropping the special enchantments, if there is a larger source of armor being applied. But I don't know of any such limitation on actual armor.
So if the Bracers are providing only armor bonus (and specifically, more than any other armor bonus), they continue to function. Regular armor, even if there is a larger source of it, doesn't stop functioning though, even if its actual bonus is redundant. Hence, putting only special properties on it (besides the requisite +1) means they would still be in effect, while the Bracers provide the better armor bonus.
Like I said though, I admit I could definitely be incorrect on these.
Edit: Whoops, you are correct on the second part at least. I hadn't noticed that it specifically mentioned the other sources of armor cease to function. I thought that was only something that the Bracers did.
Weirdo |
Polymorph wrote:Items that provide constant bonuses and do not need to be activated continue to function while melded in this way (with the exception of armor and shield bonuses, which cease to function).I see this as saying that armor and shields themselves will not provide the bonus that they normally do. That is, wearing hide armor won't give you any armor bonus, because it is melded into your form. Not really providing much for you there.
The other enchantments are constant bonuses though. So while the armor bonus may not be applicable in wild shape, I'd think the other ones still would.
As a comparison, with a Ring of Energy Resistance, you still get that energy resistance while polymorphed. With Hide Armor of Energy Resistance, it makes sense for the armor bonus to stop functioning while polymorphed, but not the Energy Resistance.
I am honestly not sure what happens to armour properties in Wild Shape. Since the rule specifically calls out armour and shield bonuses rather than armour and shields, I would assume that constant properties of magic armour or shields, like energy resistance, would still function - the bonuses to AC and any activated properties would not function. However, I have seen debate on this point and would advise the OP to check with the GM about how this would work in Wild Shape. It doesn't matter what the rulebook says as long as GM and player are in agreement.
OP, hope we haven't confused you too much. :)
beej67 |
creating a level 19 druid
Don't forget all your minions.
A level 19 druid will have:
An Animal Companion (permanent)
An Awakened Magical Beast (permanent) from the Awaken spell, which will act as a cohort and may also have class levels. For level 19, I suggest a full grown Roc.
A Treant created with the Liveoak spell (19 days per casting, then recast)
Two additional Treants created by the first Treant (same duration)
A spellstaff, which will probably have the spell 'changestaff' stored in it, for another emergency Treant if 3 isn't enough,
1d4+2 Advanced Template shambling mounds from the Shambler spell, which will also catch boons from the Augment Summoning feat if you have it (7 days per casting)
So without doing anything but reading your spell list closely, you should have somewhere between 8 and 11 monsters following you around and doing your bidding.
beej67 |
My group allows as many minions as you like, but then limits them to "guarding the castle" or whatever unless the scope of the combat is of "battle scale." It's good to have them listed out in case that scope is tripped, which can happen quite often in a 19th level game.
The spellstaff trick should be done regardless, as should the companion and the Awaken.