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There have been some thoughts knocking around in my head given the whole discussion on factions possibly changing or getting axed. My main question is, what is a Faction, or rather, what do we want them to be?
I see Factions as being a group that holds similar goals and ideals. While being associated with a nation is nice, for newer players who are not as familiar with the world setting, it does not do much to promote the faction. Factions need to be appealing to a large number of players, but also be defined so that a player knows if his character fits that Faction. Below I will list some thoughts on each faction.
Andoran: Freedom and Democracy for All
There is a central theme here. Freedom, anti-slavery, etc. There is a goal to bring characters together. It seems fairly well defined.
Cheliax: Establish Order, No Matter the Cost
This seems to be where the borderline neutral characters hang out. It’s the ‘bad boys’ of the Society that does not actually allow evil members. I have seen some legalistic characters here, but the missions of the faction don’t seem to resonate with the stated main goal of the faction. I think some work could be done to better define what it means to be Cheliax.
Grand Lodge: Loyalty to the Decemvirate above All
Ok, this is a little vague, but that’s ok. This is the catch-all group, for those characters that don’t really care about the whole faction thing and just want to be plain old Pathfinders. It’s also a place for characters that don’t seem to fit anywhere else. Well defined? No, but it probably needs to be that way.
Lantern Lodge: Spread the Wisdom of Tian Xia
What does that even mean? This is such a vague concept that it’s hard to say whether a character fits it or not. Basically it ends up being the default place to go if you want a character with an oriental feel. The goals could be better defined.
Osirion: Power through Knowledge
Sounds good. Power through learning will be attractive to many a player. The one drawback to this is its strong connection to the Egypt-like culture. I think many a player will be turned away that would have otherwise joined up because they don’t see their character as being ‘Egyptian’.
Quadira: Total Market Control
I like this one. Well defined and good for merchants, or people who just like money. Ouadira is a good Faction in my book.
Sczarni: Personal Gain
This sounds ok, but to me Scarni ends up competing with Quadira, because people who like to control the money tend to be doing it for personal gain. The one big hang up I have with this Faction is that I have not seen one mission where it actually does what it promises! Where is the personal gain? You might just as well say their goal is ‘Karela’s Personal Gain’, because that’s all they do. I would love to see this Faction actually do what it promises its players.
Shadow Lodge: Hold Your Leaders Accountable
This is another Faction that seems counterintuitive. When you read the description it sounds like they want the best for their brother and to protect the common pathfinder. Ok, but then the missions are designed for Rogues and involve deception and mistrust. The way this faction actually plays out is not at all what they pretend to be.
Silver Crusade: Use the Society for Good
Clear and simple definition that will bring in many players. Excellent.
Taldor: Glory Once More
Again, what does that mean? Seriously, I don’t want to need to explain thousands of years of history to a new player just so they understand what this faction is about. It’s associated with a nation but has no clear direction that I can tell at least. Seems to be the stopping point if you want to play an arrogant son of a noble, and that’s about it.
Something New:
Lastly, I would like to point out that there is no Nature focused faction. With all of the Rangers and Druids that join the society, this is a gaping hole in the Faction matrix. Please add something that will appeal to these kinds of nature-focused characters.
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Each faction represents a country or a principal within Golarion. Its too involved to discuss each one here, but the inner sea primer does a good job. I also like the descriptions within the Field Guide. It also depends on who you play with and how they do their missions.
Taldor - Used to be the ruling empire, now its borders are much smaller (its army is still reportedly powerful), and often prone to infighting / decadence. Its a good place for rogues (like me), although in later seasons the missions change. I miss the Baron!
Cheliax - The faction of love. The faction leader is not necessarily in tune with the nation. However, I do enjoy the faction missions from Cheliax. The innuendo alone is worth completing the missions. Actually I do not view Cheliax as evil by nature, much more LN.
Szcarni - its the mob. You work for the boss, you play by his rules. You get to keep a piece but you pass along the rest. I love Szcarni.
Taldor and the Centari both being a metaphor for British Imperialism, or as somebody else has argued, for the Roman Empire.
Basicly anywhere that HAD an Empire and thinks/wishes it still does.
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Well if you want a simple explanation for Taldor, ask your players if they have ever watched Babylon 5. Taldor are the Centauri (and Andoran are the Narns).
I would really like to see a Nature focused faction also.
To take this analogy further:
Andoran = Narns
Cheliax = Psy Core
Grand Lodge = Babalon 5
Lantern Lodge = Membari
Osiron =
Qadira =
Sczarni = Shadows
Shadow Lodge = Rangers
Silver Crusade = Vorlons
Taldor = Centari
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Wow, ThorGN this is really well put!
There are really two issues at play here, at least in my opinion.
Some faction do not have a clear goal
This seems to be your main point and you covered it really well. The only thing I'll add is that I think the Season 4 faction goals were a great idea and helped give a lot of these factions more definition. That being said it did seem to feed the second issue.
Faction goals and missions do not line up.
This I think is the biggest problem with factions right now. Now this has gotten a lot better, in my opinion, with the past couple seasons but, even with the season 4 goals, a lot of missions still seem at odds with the faction's main philosophy.
I feel lot of this has to do with the mechanics of factions missions. Having 10 factions, each with a mission, in every scenario that writers have to some how work into the story seems incredibly awkward. This comes though in the missions a lot of the time making them feel forced and random.
I too would love to see a Nature faction.
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How I normally describe Factions to new players:
Andoran: American Revolutionaries
Cheliax: The Unholy Roman Empire
Grand Lodge: Pathfinders
Lantern Lodge: Asian Pathfinders
Osiron: Egyptians trying to regain the power of the pharaohs
Qadira: Middle Eastern Merchants
Sczarni: Italian Mafia
Shadow Lodge: Corrupt Union
Silver Crusade: Yeah Good!
Taldor: 18th Century France before the revolution
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The biggest problem with factions is that they are not integrated into the campaign. They are ten little afterthoughts placed into the scenarios after they are written. The missions are also very inconsistent, likely because they are written by the scenario authors.
With ten factions, and such a small page count, it's pretty much impossible to integrate them into the scenarios' plots.
One solution that would go a long way, beyond trimming the number of factions, would be to not have the authors write the missions. Have one person write them all. That way, the factions can have a consistent vision behind them, instead of being the schizophrenic afterthoughts they are now.
-Matt
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Faction missions can't conflict with one another. There is no Player vs. Player and Pathfinders must Cooperate. If elements of the story pitted players against each other it would be a very different game and could cause big problems at the table.
Take the Chronicle sheet as an example. This process of treasure distribution is not realistic ... what? everyone can buy that unique sword? But it has evolved over years of play starting with Living City and transforming through Living Greyhawk into what we have now that doesn't pit players against each other.
Conflicting faction missions? ... That way lies madness.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor
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What I would love to see is a massive reduction in the number of faction missions assigned. In many scenarios, faction missions wind up being nearly meaningless scavenger hunts. I'd love to see faction missions become less common, but having far more weight within the campaign setting and within character development. Alternately, faction missions might not be spelled out in advance, but will become apparent to observant players.
Some possible examples:
These kind of things are nearly impossible to do now because the faction missions are more or less declared in advance. I've even done some vague-ish faction missions in some modules and people complain but really people should be able to figure out what would make their faction happy without a detailed road-map.
What I'm getting at is I'd love to be able to put and end to scavenger hunts and psychic faction leads.
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I think of Taldor as being the faction for characters that want to impress the aristocracy for favors in return. This has worked out wonderfully well for my opera bard who wanted to open his own opera house (1 level theater + 1 level concert hall)as a stepping stone in his quest to become the world's greatest halfing opera star.
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To take this analogy further:Andoran = Narns
Cheliax = Psy Core
Grand Lodge = Babalon 5
Lantern Lodge = Membari
Osiron =
Qadira =
Sczarni = Shadows
Shadow Lodge = Rangers
Silver Crusade = Vorlons
Taldor = Centari
Other take on it.
Andoran = Narns
Cheliax = Shadows--'What do you want?' Slogan, Church of Amodeus
Grand Lodge = Earth Alliance, don't tell me the ten or a faction of them won't be corrupted eventually.
Lantern Lodge = League of Non aligned Worlds distant and not very powerful, a lot of little nations.
Osiron = Vorlon, ancient and perhaps more powerful then they appear. Definately orderly.
Qadira = Mimbari 'good' tradition Valen/Church of Sarenrae w/ good warrior tradition. However, will all casts/members of that society live up to that good? Delen would be cleric of Sarenrae.
Sczarni = Psy core Both are 'family'.
Shadow Lodge = Babylon 5, someone has to oppose the center when the bad guys take it. Personally, I see this in many ways as the most 'heroic' faction.
Silver Crusade = Rangers
Taldor = Centari
I would really like to see a Nature focused faction also.
Green faith as a playable faction.
Contributor
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Ah, Babylon 5 - this is where I can speak among equals :)
To take this analogy further:Andoran = Narns
Cheliax = Psy Core
Grand Lodge = Babalon 5
Lantern Lodge = Membari
Osiron =
Qadira =
Sczarni = Shadows
Shadow Lodge = Rangers
Silver Crusade = Vorlons
Taldor = Centari
Andoran = Narns, 100% agreement.
Cheliax = Shadows and Psy-Corps are both good fits. So are the Vorlons, if you think about it - order at the cost of free will. A LG Chelaxian Paladin of Iomedae, for example.Grand Lodge = League of Nonaligned Worlds - core values, simple desires, work within the system except when extreme cases come up.
Lantern Lodge = Mimbari for certain - spread wisdom, learn wisdom
Osiron = Perhaps the Soulhunters? Capture relics of power, bring them together. Technomages fit too, I think.
Qadira = Earth Dome - they want trade, they want power, they want tech, they want more more more.
Sczarni = The Mars Resistance, or the smugglers/raiders who B5 allied with during the civil war?
Shadow Lodge = I'm more with the Babylon 5 bit on this - can't trust the government anymore, but are still loyal, deep down.
Silver Crusade = Rangers, yar.
Taldor = Centauri, 100% agreement.
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Osirion: Power through Knowledge
Sounds good. Power through learning will be attractive to many a player. The one drawback to this is its strong The one drawback to this is its strong connection to the Egypt-like culture. I think many a player will be turned away that would have otherwise joined up because they don’t see their character as being ‘Egyptian’.
Who wouldn't want to play an Egyptian? I, for one, relish any excuse to pull out my terrible Sean Connery impression, no matter how flimsy. :P
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Who wouldn't want to play an Egyptian? I, for one, relish any excuse to pull out my terrible Sean Connery impression, no matter how flimsy. :P
Does hit on something I've noticed.There seems to be more characters of the 'eurocentric' factions, Andoran, Taldor, Cheliax, Grand Lodge, Shadow Lodge, Silver Crusade then the culturally exotic factions, namely, Osirian, Qadira, Lantern Lodge, Sczarni.
In fact, on the list of factions likely to be eliminated closely mirrors this; Osirian, Lantern Lodge, Sczarni, Shadow Lodge.