I hate to be a jerk, but I haven't slept for nearly two days, so I'll keep this short.
Basically, I have two characters for a Serpent's Skull campaign. They are both variations of the same guy, an outcast serpentfolk who's defected to the 'Anti-Ydersius' team (if such a thing exists). All I want to know is are they over-powered? We're 9th level right now, everyone else is using 25 point buy, but I'm using 10 to balance out the amazing serpentfolk stats.
Option 1:
Pelenial
Male Serpentfolk Wizard 5
NE Medium Monstrous Humanoid
Init +11; Senses darkvision 60 ft., scent; Perception +13
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Defense
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AC 20, touch 17, flat-footed 13 (+7 Dex, +3 natural)
hp 115 (5d10+5d6+35)
Fort +9, Ref +14, Will +10
Immune mind-affecting, paralysis, poison; SR 20
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee Bite (Serpentfolk) +14 (1d6-1/x2)
Special Attacks poison: bite - injury (dc 15)
Spell-Like Abilities Blur (1/day), Disguise Self (humanoid form only) (At will), Dominate Person (1/day), Major Image (1/day), Mirror Image (1/day), Suggestion (1/day), Ventriloquism (At will)
Wizard Spells Prepared (CL 10)*:
3 (4/day) Ray of Exhaustion (x2) (DC 24), Vampiric Touch (x2), Fly, Undead Anatomy I
2 (6/day) Invisibility, Blindness/Deafness (x3) (DC 23), Brow Gasher (x2), Lipstitch (DC 23), Pernicious Poison
1 (7/day) Magic Missile (x2), Hydraulic Push (x2), Chill Touch (DC 22), Feather Fall (DC 21), Ant Haul (DC 21), Ray of Sickening (x2) (DC 22)
0 (at will) Mage Hand, Detect Magic, Arcane Mark, Penumbra
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Statistics
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Str 8, Dex 24, Con 16, Int 30, Wis 11, Cha 13
Base Atk +7; CMB +6; CMD 23
Feats Arcane Blast (Su), Command Undead (13/day) (DC 13), Great Fortitude, Improved Initiative, Scribe Scroll, Spell Focus (Necromancy), Synergistic Training, Weapon Finesse
Skills Acrobatics +12, Appraise +14, Bluff +11, Diplomacy +11, Disguise +6, Escape Artist +20, Fly +14, Knowledge (arcana) +18, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +18, Knowledge (engineering) +18, Knowledge (geography) +18, Knowledge (history) +18, Knowledge (local) +18, Knowledge (nature) +18, Knowledge (nobility) +18, Knowledge (planes) +18, Knowledge (religion) +18, Linguistics +22, Perception +13, Sense Motive +5, Spellcraft +23, Use Magic Device +11
Languages Aboleth, Abyssal, Aklo, Aquan, Auran, Azlanti, Celestial, Common, Cyclops, Daemonic, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Ignan, Infernal, Jistka, Osiriani, Polyglot, Terran, Undercommon; telepathy (100 feet)
SQ arcane bonds (object [amulet of spell mastery] [1/day]), grave touch (13/day), specialized schools (gluttony [necromancy])
Combat Gear Scroll of Comprehend Languages, Comprehend Languag, Scroll of Decompose Corpse, Decompose Corpse, Deco, Scroll of Restore Corpse, Restore Corpse, Restore , Scroll of Sculpt Corpse, Sculpt Corpse, Sculpt Cor; Other Gear Amulet of spell mastery, Pelenial (1/day), Cloak of resistance +2, Handy haversack (1 @ 5 lbs), Headband of vast intelligence +4 (Bluff, Diplomacy, Scroll box, Silk rope, Spell component pouch, 756 GP
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Special Abilities
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Arcane Blast (Su) Convert a level 1+ spell into a 30' ranged touch attack dealing 2d6+1d6/spell level
Arcane Bond (Amulet of spell mastery) (1/day) (Sp) Use object to cast any spell in your spellbook 1/day. Without it, Concentration required to cast spells (DC20 + spell level).
Bookplate of recall (Pelenial) (1/day) Inscribe name on plate then place in book. Named person can summon book to self.
Command Undead (13/day) (DC 13) Channel energy can take control of undead.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Gluttony (Necromancy) The dread and feared necromancer commands undead and uses the foul power of unlife against his enemies.
Grave Touch (13/day) (Sp) Melee touch attack, shakes then frightens target.
Immunity to Mind-Affecting attacks You are immune to Mind-Affecting attacks.
Immunity to Paralysis You are immune to paralysis.
Immunity to Poison You are immune to poison.
Poison: Bite - Injury (DC 15) (Ex) Poison deals 1d2 STR damage, 1/round for 6 rds, cure 2 consecutive saves.
Scent (Ex) Detect opponents within 15+ feet by sense of smell.
Spell Focus (Necromancy) Spells from one school of magic have +1 to their save DC.
Spell Resistance (20) You have Spell Resistance.
Synergistic Training You learn how to apply the lessons from all areas of
your life to improve your spellcasting.*
Telepathy (100 feet) (Su) Communicate telepathically if the target has a language.
*Third party feat. Allows me to add HD from other 'classes' to my caster level.
Option 2:
Pelenial
Male Serpentfolk Alchemist (Mindchemist) 5
NE Medium Monstrous Humanoid
Init +10; Senses darkvision 60 ft., scent; Perception +13
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Defense
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AC 23, touch 16, flat-footed 17 (+4 armor, +6 Dex, +3 natural)
hp 135 (5d10+5d8+45)
Fort +11, Ref +14, Will +6; +4 bonus vs. poison
Immune mind-affecting, paralysis, poison; Resist poison resistance +4; SR 20
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee Bite (Serpentfolk) +16 (1d8+2/x2)
Ranged +2 Icy burst Light crossbow +16/+11 (1d8+2+1d6 cold/19-20/x2+1d10 cold) and
. . Bomb +15/+10 (3d6+7 Fire/x2)
Special Attacks bomb 3d6+7 (12/day) (dc 19), discoveries (explosive bomb, precise bombs), poison: bite - injury (dc 16)
Spell-Like Abilities Blur (1/day), Disguise Self (humanoid form only) (At will), Dominate Person (1/day), Major Image (1/day), Mirror Image (1/day), Suggestion (1/day), Ventriloquism (At will)
Alchemist (Mindchemist) Spells Prepared (CL 5):
2 (4/day) Cure Moderate Wounds (x2), Invisibility (x2)
1 (6/day) True Strike, Cure Light Wounds (x2), Ant Haul (DC 18), Negate Aroma (DC 18), Vocal Alteration (DC 18)
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Statistics
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Str 10, Dex 23, Con 18, Int 24, Wis 12, Cha 13
Base Atk +8; CMB +8; CMD 24
Feats Brew Potion, Great Fortitude, Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Attack (Bite [Serpentfolk]), Master Alchemist, Throw Anything, Weapon Finesse
Skills Acrobatics +11, Bluff +7, Craft (alchemy) +23 (+28 to create alchemical items), Diplomacy +7, Disable Device +16, Disguise +6, Escape Artist +19, Heal +9, Intimidate +8, Knowledge (arcana) +22, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +15, Knowledge (engineering) +15, Knowledge (geography) +15, Knowledge (history) +15, Knowledge (local) +15, Knowledge (nature) +18, Knowledge (nobility) +15, Knowledge (planes) +15, Knowledge (religion) +15, Linguistics +9, Perception +13, Sense Motive +9, Sleight of Hand +10, Spellcraft +18, Stealth +18, Use Magic Device +16 Modifiers alchemy +5
Languages Abyssal, Aklo, Azlanti, Common, Cyclops, Draconic, Elven, Osiriani, Polyglot, Undercommon; telepathy (100 feet)
SQ cognatogen (dc 19), fast poisoning (move action), perfect recall, swift alchemy
Combat Gear Potion of cure light wounds, Potion of Endure Elements, Antiplague (3), Bloodwine (3), Blue whinnis (4); Other Gear +3 Haramaki, +2 Icy burst Light crossbow, Crossbow bolts (30), Amulet of mighty fists +2, Handy haversack (19 @ 31 lbs), Ring of sustenance, Alchemy crafting kit, Belt pouch (empty), Portable alchemist's lab, Silk rope, Thieves' tools, masterwork, 12862 GP
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Special Abilities
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Alchemy +5 (Su) +5 to Craft (Alchemy) to create alchemical items, can Id potions by touch.
Bomb 3d6+7 (12/day) (DC 19) (Su) Thrown Splash Weapon deals 3d6+7 fire damage.
Cognatogen (DC 19) (Su) At 1st level, a mindchemist learns how to create a cognatogen, as per the cognatogen discovery.
This ability replaces the mutagen class ability (a mindchemist cannot create mutagens unless he selects mutagen* as a discovery).
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Explosive Bomb (Su) The alchemist’s bombs now have a splash radius of 10 feet rather than 5 feet. Creatures that take a direct hit from an explosive bomb catch fire, taking 1d6 points of fire damage each round until the fire is extinguished. Extinguishing the flames i
Fast Poisoning (Move Action) (Ex) Apply poison to a weapon as a move action.
Immunity to Mind-Affecting attacks You are immune to Mind-Affecting attacks.
Immunity to Paralysis You are immune to paralysis.
Immunity to Poison You are immune to poison.
Master Alchemist You may create 7 doses of poison in the time it would normally take to create one, and may create alchemical items 10x as fast.
Perfect Recall At 2nd level, a mindchemist has honed his memory. When making a Knowledge check, he may add his Intelligence bonus on the check a second time. Thus, a mindchemist with 5 ranks in Knowledge (history) and a +2 Intelligence bonus has a total skill bonus
Poison Resistance +4 (Ex) +4 to save vs. Poison.
Poison: Bite - Injury (DC 16) (Ex) Poison deals 1d2 STR damage, 1/round for 6 rds, cure 2 consecutive saves.
Precise Bombs (7 squares) (Su) Whenever the alchemist throws a bomb, he can select a number of squares equal to his Intelligence modifier that are not affected by the splash damage from his bombs.
Ring of sustenance Immune to hunger and thirst, and only sleep two hours a night.
Scent (Ex) Detect opponents within 15+ feet by sense of smell.
Spell Resistance (20) You have Spell Resistance.
Swift Alchemy (Ex) You can construct alchemical items in half the normal time.
Telepathy (100 feet) (Su) Communicate telepathically if the target has a language.
Throw Anything Proficient with improvised ranged weapons. +1 to hit with thrown splash weapons.
So, whatddya think? Are they over-powered? Really over-powered? Ridiculously over-powered? Or head-explodingly, world-endingly, mind-destoryingly OP? And which one is better or worse?
Oh sh**, I misread the wording on Synergistic training. Option 1 just got a lot worse......
Yes, they are overpowered.
Could you perhaps offer a little more insight then that?
Int 30
Dex 24
Immunity to Mind-Affecting attacks
+3 natural armor
SR 20
Poison: Bite - Injury (DC 15) (Ex) Poison deals 1d2 STR damage, 1/round for 6 rds, cure 2 consecutive saves.
Telepathy (100 feet)
Far too much in there.
Wait, but is the rest of the party level 9 and you'll be level 5? I guess in that case it's not so bad, I guess being two spell levels behind probably makes up for all this.
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I would advise creating the Serpentfolk as a race with the rules in the ARG and then deleting advantages till the Racial Points are down to 10. Then you build it back as a PC following the same rules as the other players.
For example, you might lose all the awesome stats and build them back as much as you can with a 25-point buy.
This way, you will be on par with the other players and you can always justify the weakened stats and lost abilities as your PC being cursed by Ydersius or somesuch.
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where are you getting this race from?
Elements that are much stronger than core races
**Str 8, Dex 24, Con 16, Int 30(26 no item), Wis 11, Cha 13 : This is 10 point buy at level 9?
**SR 20: at level 9 is basically 40%-50% spell immunity
**Feat adding racial hit dice to increase caster level
**immunity to Mind-Effecting, Paralysis and Poison as a racial feature
**Spell-Like Abilities Blur (1/day), Disguise Self (humanoid form only) (At will), Dominate Person (1/day), Major Image (1/day), Mirror Image (1/day), Suggestion (1/day), Ventriloquism (At will) - This whole chunk
**Telepathy (100 feet) (Su) Communicate telepathically if the target has a language.
Not sure what you are trying to get at here. This is much more powerful than a level 9 human wizard. I may be mis-reading it, but the tone of the OP is that this is perfectly fine and there is nothing powerful about it.
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I would advise creating the Serpentfolk as a race with the rules in the ARG and then deleting advantages till the Racial Points are down to 10. Then you build it back as a PC following the same rules as the other players.
For example, you might lose all the awesome stats and build them back as much as you can with a 25-point buy.
This way, you will be on par with the other players and you can always justify the weakened stats and lost abilities as your PC being cursed by Ydersius or somesuch.
I would agree with this. Work with your GM and build a race using a set racial cost determined by the GM. This would be the only way to fairly do this. Slapping class levels on an already powerful race is over the top
Alternatively, take an ECL reduction, 3.5 style. Sure you can play the Serpentfolk with all its badass stats... but it'd put you... I dunno, this isn't quite as awesome as a Half-Fiend... I'd estimate 3 levels behind the rest of the party.
For XP purposes you're a level 9 character, but your actual class levels (and all associated bonuses - feats, skills, etc.) are only 6.
Now you'll have accusations of badwrongfun.
This may make me look stupid, but I'm afraid I'm not up to date with all you young 'uns hip gamin' lingo. What is this badwrongfun you speak of?
I know the meaning of the individual words 'bad', 'wrong' and 'fun', but what does it mean in conjunction with each other?
And I get it now it's overpowered, there's no need to be rude.
I'll post a more reasonable build in a little while.
EDIT: I apologize myself if at any point I came across as rude. I didn't mean to.
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Is it just me or does 'power gamey' sound like an extreme version of an adjective used to describe one's dinner?
"How's your chicken son?"
"It's a little POWER GAMEY!!!!!!!!!"
Gonna disagree with people saying that being 5 levels behind doesn't make the proposed character OP. In Serpent's Skull and its medium advancement track, he could make most of that level differential up in little time and then would not only have about the same level, but a lot of really powerful abilities to boot.
Consider a 5th level PC with minimum XPs of 15,000 vs a 10th level PC with 105,000. The 5th level PC is 90,000 XP behind. Sounds like a lot doesn't it? But add 90,000 XP to both and the 5th level PC has made it to 10th while the 10th level PC has made it to 11th level. By the time you're between 12th and 13th level, the difference between the two is more than 90,000 XP and the PCs will be the same level for a while until, eventually, that 90,000 XP difference is insignificant.
Moral of the story: Level differentials don't mean much when balancing PCs beyond the very first couple of levels.
taking an ECL negative means he levels at the same rate as the other characters, while statistically being equal to them, so he will always stay at the same number of levels behind and will gain xp at the same rate because he is considered the same level, even though his class level is lowered
Yep. He's a 9th lvl character, but with only 5 class levels. If he's using the 3.5 ECL rules.
Considering this is Pathfinder, I doubt he's using 3.5's ECL.
Because I have incredibly low self-esteem, several pre-existing mental and anxiety conditions, am incredibly worried about what people think of me, and obviously don't think before I post.
What I've learned from this whole fiasco is I might as well go crawl in a hole and die.
What I've learned from this whole fiasco is I might as well go crawl in a hole and die.
Well. That's a little extreme.
I recommend not doing that.
Also maybe refrain from engaging with Internet forums if you feel that way when faceless people disagree with, argue with, judge, or belittle you. Because that's what faceless Internet forum-goers tend to do.
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Because I have incredibly low self-esteem, several pre-existing mental and anxiety conditions, am incredibly worried about what people think of me, and obviously don't think before I post.
What I've learned from this whole fiasco is I might as well go crawl in a hole and die.
Internet forum may not be exactly the healthiest of outlets for you in this case....
he is 5th lvl now but he wil be getting 9th lvl XP not long and he catches up ...