Rogue 4 / Fighter 4 - whats next?

[TGMaxMaxer]

If you're going to go half orc, grab 3 levels of Lore Warden and go Skulking Slayer/scout rogue which gets to do a free feint on a charge later, and has access to surprise follow thru (sneak on all cleaves all the time), and can do a dirty trick or steal any time they get a sneak attack, instead of as a standard, with a bonus equal to sneak dice.

I took trip, dirty trick, power attack, felling smash, and now i charge/PA->(sneak)->free trip->free attack->dirty trick->enemy now prone and blinded. If they stand up first, while still blinded (GM will only forget this once, I promise you), you get to sneak. If they remove the blind and stand up, they can't even 5ft step as they have already taken a move, and you still get a free hit. So there they are, next to you, with no action left.

And, dirty trick to blind is much harder to lose as an option at higher levels than trip, which you can replace if you take a 4th level of fighter later (like around... 12).

[Silent Saturn]

If her play style is "run up and hit things", then maybe she should compliment her four Rogue levels and four Fighter levels with four Barbarian levels?

Or better yet, Cavalier. CHAAAAAARRRRRRRGE!

[Animation]

Is the Spell-Less Ranger thing something one can buy a physical version of? Or is it only PDF?

[Thanael]

@micman: Telly's some more of her career and backstory, please! Also maybe a few more details about her build - the PCs that is ;-)

Matthew Morris wrote:

Definitely agree with the Lore Warden bit. Especially if she's not using lots of armor.

From Paths of Prestige, I'd recommend Noble Scion if she qualifies (oh if only it were PFS legal)

Noble scion seems an interesting roleplaying opportunity (become a noble player, yay!) and would certainly mesh well with retraining as lore warden.

But why/how do you find it mechanically attractive? Is it the leadership? The 2nd chort-servant? They remind me of Steven Brust's Khaavren romances (the awesome fantasy Dumas homages) where some of the noble protagonists have a staunch servant following them.

[Thanael]

MicMan wrote:

My wive always plays Rogues, always for now over 15 years.

.. the "tough Rogue" kind of play...

Might I suggest tracking down the 3.5 Quintessential Rogue 1+2 for her ? They have lots of advice for playing rogues and some interesting new subsystems/rules. In one of the there's also advice for even split Rogue multiclass builds which while 3.5 should still be somewhat useful for PF. Some of the content of these books is available on the Grand OGL wiki but print copies should be cheap by now on eBay...

If her play style truly is "run up and hit things" and she complains about sucking in combat, then she can probably need a bit of tactical advice...

What kind of rogue is she playing anyway? Tell us more ! Do you play solo? Homebrew or modules?

[Dragonchess Player]

The cad fighter archetype (Ultimate Combat) has some good synergy with rogue, especially after gaining Deadly Surprise (immediate action dirty trick when hitting an opponent denied their Dex bonus) at 7th level. Using the dirty trick maneuver to cause blindness means more Sneak Attacks!

With a 13 Int, Combat Expertise, and Improved Dirty Trick (possibly Greater Dirty Trick as well), you can really do a number on an opponent. A half-orc cad fighter/skulking slayer rogue (Advanced Race Guide) can make their (short) lives pure hell.

[Matthew Morris]

Thanael wrote:

@micman: Telly's some more of her career and backstory, please! Also maybe a few more details about her build - the PCs that is ;-)

Matthew Morris wrote:

Definitely agree with the Lore Warden bit. Especially if she's not using lots of armor.

From Paths of Prestige, I'd recommend Noble Scion if she qualifies (oh if only it were PFS legal)

Noble scion seems an interesting roleplaying opportunity (become a noble player, yay!) and would certainly mesh well with retraining as lore warden.

But why/how do you find it mechanically attractive? Is it the leadership? The 2nd chort-servant? They remind me of Steven Brust's Khaavren romances (the awesome fantasy Dumas homages) where some of the noble protagonists have a staunch servant following them.

Really it's the good will save, average BAB, skill points, Affluent, Aristocratic Erudition, Prestigious Influence, Dilettante Studies that sell it. The Leadership is nice, sure, but not my main draw.

Fighter 3/Rogue 2 enters the class with BAB +4, +4/+4/+1 saves. Given 10 levels that becomes BAB +11 +7/+7/+6 when you exit at 15. Stick with fighter and at 20th it's BAB +16 +9/+9/+7 Very Jack Of All Trades. My prefered style (Plus Evasion and a rogue talent). I'd take the fighter levels as Lore Warden of course. The first level of Noble Scion is about the time I'm shopping for a mithral breastplate anyway.

[Tangaroa]

Prestige class ideas for fighter rogues:
Chevalier (paladin like abilities, good only)
Pathfinder Delver (aka Dark Delver, good dungeon crawling)
Lions Blade (deception, fight in crowds)
Low Templar (shifty rogue fighter, some skill vs demons)
Duelist (light fighter)
Shadowdancer ( high mobility, hide in shadows)

[Atarlost]

Another thing to consider is a maneuver master dip. Dirty Trick can give out the blind condition, which makes most things flatfooted, and can do it for free as part of a full attack. That will get you sneak attack with better action economy than anything you can do with feint, though the odds of success may be worse. Unlike feint, though, you're not actually sacrificing actions to make the attempts.

[MicMan]

Thanael wrote:

...If her play style truly is "run up and hit things" and she complains about sucking in combat, then she can probably need a bit of tactical advice...

You aren't married, are you? ;-)

I am gonna do Lore Warden as she likes the suggestion very much, thank you all.

[Thanael]

As a matter of fact I am. Though she's not playing unless I dm and we seldom have time for that.

But I get what you mean. If she's interested in readin a bit of rules stuff the 2 quint books are great esp since they specifically analyze an even split multiclass and some nice options. If not oh well.