Attack rolls can be applied to things other than AC, such as CMD (via maneuvers) or other attack rolls (via Duelist Parry).Attack bonuses (such as Base Attack Bonuses, Dex, etc...) are applied to CMD, but those aren't attack rolls. It specifically says the maneuvers are "place of a melee attack". But if there is a specific maneuver, let me know.
Parry I'll give you, although that is a special class ability used to turn "attacking" into "defending", so in my opinion that is like referencing exceptions an inquisitor gets when using bane.
The attack roll is going against AC, and AC is the counter to the attack roll, except with a specific class skill.
That is incorrect.
Attacking on a Charge: After moving, you may make a single melee attack. You get a +2 bonus on the attack roll and take a –2 penalty to your AC until the start of your next turn.
A charging character gets a +2 bonus on combat maneuver made to bull rush an opponent.
When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus.It is still an attack roll. You just dont use the normal attack bonus.
edited for clarity
@Wraithstrike - Come on, man...don't cut off the reference right before the relevent sentance. I've debated you before, you are so much better than that.
"Spell resistance is a special defensive ability. If your spell is being resisted by a creature with spell resistance, you must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) at least equal to the creature's spell resistance for the spell to affect that creature. The defender's spell resistance is like an Armor Class against magical attacks. Include any adjustments to your caster level to this caster level check."
Have you gone back to the first page to read the argument, I don't want to repost the whole thing again.
At this point I almost wish the Devs would just say I'm wrong and remove the line in the next printing (almost...)
Also, like Mal said, good to see you.
I did not list it because we all know its there. There is no rule saying that nat 1/20 rules apply to defense. Every listing has them applying to the roll in question.
Yeah, the key is that attack rolls trigger the 1/20 rule, not the defense the attacks are rolling against. Only attack rolls and saves carry the 1/20 rule--no other kind of roll does. A Skill check against AC does not auto-fail/succeed any more or less than a skill check against any other DC.And this is the first (and as far as I know only) "skill" check against AC. And in this case, it is still an "attack" against AC, using a boat.
Which is why I thought this example is so interesting. It is a skill check, while at the same time it is also an attack.
I kind of think it's only interesting to you, because you're the only one that thinks the AC part matters. It seems pretty unanimous otherwise that the Profession skill check is still a skill check, so uses the rules for skill checks and not attack rolls.
Rolls carry the 1/20 rule, not defenses. The Skill check is still a skill check, even though it's "an attack." It doesn't become an Attack Roll just because it targets AC.
If I am agreeing with Malachi I think that should auto-end the thread. :)
Just joking Malachi well sorta. ;)
How have you been?
It's good to hear from you. : )
Although we've been on the opposite sides of our fair share of debates in the past, it has always been about each case, never about personalities.
Some people talk rubbish. Some, like you, construct well-reasoned arguments, even on the occasions where we disagree!
If ciretose were to post a sensible opinion I'd be happy to agree with it, and any past disagreement would not be a factor in a new, separate debate.
Anyway, why's it been so long since you posted?
I know it is not about personalities. I was just teasing you. :)
I have just been busy. I probably won't be on the site like I used to be, but I will be stopping in from time to time.
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It must be exhausting to have to keep picking up and carrying those goalposts. You should at least attach wheels to them to make these constant movements easier.
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Universal Monster Rules. Bestiary 3, most recent printing.
Spell Resistance (Ex) A creature with spell resistance
can avoid the effects of spells and spell-like abilities
that directly affect it. To determine whether a spell or
spell-like ability works against a creature with spell
resistance, the caster must make a caster level check
(1d20 + caster level). If the result equals or exceeds the
creature’s spell resistance, the spell works normally,
although the creature is still allowed a saving throw
if the spell would normally permit one. Format:SR18;
Location: Defensive Abilities
10 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Staff response: no reply required.
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Universal Monster Rules. Bestiary 3, most recent printing.
Spell Resistance (Ex) A creature with spell resistance
can avoid the effects of spells and spell-like abilities
that directly affect it. To determine whether a spell or
spell-like ability works against a creature with spell
resistance, the caster must make a caster level check
(1d20 + caster level). If the result equals or exceeds the
creature’s spell resistance, the spell works normally,
although the creature is still allowed a saving throw
if the spell would normally permit one. Format:SR18;
Location: Defensive Abilities10 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Staff response: no reply required.
Thanks Cheapy. Without the line, I'm wrong.
For a line that is intended to carry mechanical weight, your favorite quote is far too vague to be of any use. Therefore, it seems more reasonable to assume it has no mechanical effects, but is merely descriptive.
And as the developers do not seem to see a need for clarification, with the majority interpreting it as a simile, it probably is not meant as "Natural Exceptions apply".
Thanks Cheapy. Without the line, I'm wrong.
My brain melts.
You are wrong with the line, too. The line obviously does not mean what you think it means. Did you know you were wrong a page or two back, but had to wait for something like this so you could bow out gracefully? Don't worry, I do the same thing.
Perfection in Simplicity (Su): At 1st level, Fighters and Rogues get to automatically avoid 5-page arguments regarding spell resistance. This can be used any number of times a day because hi5!
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There's no need to kick him when he's down. The mere admittance by someone saying they were wrong is rare enough on the internet.
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