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Thunderdome and Sarenrae...
I think you've just won at life sir. -Slow golf clap-
Nothing in this thread will ever match up to that giant gate. 100% worth it, and probably one of the most awesome uses of the wish spell ever seen.
Perhaps Gygax read "The Monkey's Paw" one too many times.
Of course, in addition to that, djinn do tend to pervert wishes if they can connive doing so ... while demons and devils cannot be trusted in the least.
I suppose, thus, that there's precedent for fear of wish magic.
Demons, yes... Devils? Yeh, they're evil, but they're also LAWFUL, it's that whole thing about taking everything to the literal letter. So if you word your wish correctly, you can be sure it'll get done EXACTLY as you see fit. Now, whether or not there will be other side effects... that's another story :P
Well, I havent been playing long enough to see a wish played (only a few months) BUT I WILL GET THERE!
That sarenrae thunderdome was just too awesome.
The conceit of believing you can outwit a being who existed before time began is typically human.Thunderdome and Sarenrae...I think you've just won at life sir. -Slow golf clap-
Nothing in this thread will ever match up to that giant gate. 100% worth it, and probably one of the most awesome uses of the wish spell ever seen.
Demons, yes... Devils? Yeh, they're evil, but they're also LAWFUL, it's that whole thing about taking everything to the literal letter. So if you word your wish correctly, you can be sure it'll get done EXACTLY as you see fit. Now, whether or not there will be other side effects... that's another story :PPerhaps Gygax read "The Monkey's Paw" one too many times.
Of course, in addition to that, djinn do tend to pervert wishes if they can connive doing so ... while demons and devils cannot be trusted in the least.
I suppose, thus, that there's precedent for fear of wish magic.
Hey, never said I could outwit them :P I'm just sure I'd get what I wanted... and then probably quite a bit more than I bargained for.
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Back to the thread at hand, we had roughly a 33-year hiatus in playing D&D rules (1978-2011), and from onset to 1978 no one gained enough levels to get a wish, so I've seen all of ONE wish from my PCs.
And it's a heart-wrencher: The kitsune bard wished to have the longevity of an elf so he'd be able to spend the next millenium as the faithful companion of the drow paladin.
No game effects; no attributes, just, "I want to live long enough to be with her until the day she dies."
Yeah, I granted it.
Hard to say, I've had wishes that worked with one GM that I know would never ever fly without getting gleefully exploited (by the GM) into making us wish we never wished in the first place.
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Not exactly the most powerful wish; however, in one of my games, two of my players were offered a wish each by a powerful good-aligned ghost. My players apparently did not take the word "wish" to mean "as the spell." The dwarf fighter had recently lost his beard (due to being unconscious in a bar earlier, and a thug deciding to remove it to humiliate him). Additionally, the pair was headed to the house of the local magistrate (approximately a 20 minute walk). Before I can say anything, the human wizard proudly proclaims: "I wish for the dwarf's beard to grow back." Before I can stop him, the dwarf fighter player says "I wish we were at the magistrate's house."
Yep, two wishes blown. One to grow a beard, and one to teleport a 20 minute walk.
Back to the thread at hand, we had roughly a 33-year hiatus in playing D&D rules (1978-2011), and from onset to 1978 no one gained enough levels to get a wish, so I've seen all of ONE wish from my PCs.
And it's a heart-wrencher: The kitsune bard wished to have the longevity of an elf so he'd be able to spend the next millenium as the faithful companion of the drow paladin.
No game effects; no attributes, just, "I want to live long enough to be with her until the day she dies."
Yeah, I granted it.
Hopefully the paladin and the bard didn't die on the spot =/
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Hopefully the paladin and the bard didn't die on the spot =/Back to the thread at hand, we had roughly a 33-year hiatus in playing D&D rules (1978-2011), and from onset to 1978 no one gained enough levels to get a wish, so I've seen all of ONE wish from my PCs.
And it's a heart-wrencher: The kitsune bard wished to have the longevity of an elf so he'd be able to spend the next millenium as the faithful companion of the drow paladin.
No game effects; no attributes, just, "I want to live long enough to be with her until the day she dies."
Yeah, I granted it.
The saddest part is that you say that in jest, but that's *exactly* what the players thought I'd do. And I'm the *NICE* GM! :-P
Most powerful wish I've ever allowed? Player wished for a simulacrum of the BBEG they were preparing to fight, then used Mind Rape on the simulacrum to learn all of the BBEG's prepared defenses and weaknesses.Simulacrum is loyal to its creator, so if making the wish created it the mind rape would have been unnecessary. That's grey DM area though.
Also how funny would it be to send the thing into battle vs the bbeg? Lol.
They could have interrogated it, true, but they were pressed for time. I was really impressed the player came up with it at the time because I had never thought of using those spells that way before, so I allowed it because I like rewarding creative ideas. Was quite disappointed when I went on the internet later and saw it was a decently common trick...
As for "unsafe" wishes, I have a strict policy of no PC casting of Wish or Miracle to create effects not listed in the spell description. Those spells are insane enough as is. This goes double if you're intent on using Dweomerkeeper or other methods to bypass the costs. Occasionally I allow an NPC to give you one through Plot Magic, but those will have other strings attached.
Just for posterity, I'll talk about the wish that didn't go the way I planned, and then the one that actually worked. These come from my 2e days, and I'm not sure why, exactly- I guess wishing was just considered more "fast and loose" back then.
1- during a fight with a wizard several levels above our party, my Thief managed to use invisibility to sneak up behind the mage and pick pocket him several times without his knowledge (which was especially hilarious when he went to cast a spell and found his bag of spell components was simply gone!). The fight still went poorly, with the cleric dead and our own mage feebleminded. In the wizard's belt pouch, I found a ring with a tag attached to it, that plainly said "ring of three wishes".
Everyone was dubious about whether or not it really was a ring of wishes, but I figured my character would take the risk. After getting the cleric and our mage back, I realized there was no way my thief could resist making at least one greedy wish.
"I wish I was the greatest thief in the world!"
Nothing happened...at first. Unfortunately, every NPC in the campaign had now heard of my character and of his reputation of being the greatest of thieves (I was 5th level). Hilarity ensued.
2-after an encounter with the infamous Deck of Many Things, my gladiator, Lynx, found himself in an extradimensional prison, without his equipment. He wasn't the only party member there, so he decided, after various attempts to communicate with the other prisoners (some very strange individuals), to plan an escape.
It turned out the prison was in hell, and on the way out (after finding most of our items, plus a few new ones), I saw one of the guards- an immense, 50' tall devil!
Immediately, Lynx wanted to fight this new foe, and prove his mettle as a great warrior. So he said "I wish I could have a fair fight with that devil!"
The rest of the party slapped their foreheads, realizing I had a wish the whole time ("Why didn't you just wish us out of the prison?!"), and that I'd 'wasted' it.
The DM rolled some dice, and then told me that I'd been affected by an Enlarge spell that made me the same size as the devil (who was very surprised). In 2e, the spell increased your damage rolls by the same percentage it increased your height, so I think I ended up dealing something like 5 x normal damage.
Being very gracious about it, the DM also ruled I would take 1/5th the damage from the creature, hence, a "fair fight".
To everyone's amazement, I soundly handed the devil it's own backside. The DM further ruled that since I'd killed it on it's home plane, that I would earn double xp, as it was now permanently dead.
I basically went up a level on the spot, and the wish ended, reducing me to normal size. Of course, this also sounded the alarm, forcing me to use my second wish to take our group back to the Prime.
"Wait, you had TWO wishes from the Deck?!"
"Three, actually, why do you ask?"
"You [REDACTED]!!!"
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I've only seen an actual wish used once. The GM had a powerful archmage use a wish to fully heal the entire party of all hit point and ability damage, along with negative levels.
The most powerful use of limited wish I've seen was to immediately restore to life a somewhat powerful NPC wizard that the party had just disintegrated. Basically slightly better than breath of life, since he didn't have a body but only died by a margin of like 4 hit points.
The most powerful use of limited wish I've ever used personally was either to remove an NPC (Lavinia, fellow PC love interest) from the path of an attack that would have killed her (hero point to act out of turn) or the deactivation of an artifact that was going to go off and destroy a city (shadow pearl, STAP).
Most powerful wish I've ever allowed? Player wished for a simulacrum of the BBEG they were preparing to fight, then used [redacted] on the simulacrum to learn all of the BBEG's prepared defenses and weaknesses.Please don't use that word carelessly, I find it extremely offensive, thank you.
It isn't being used carelessly. It's the name of the spell in question.
The most powerful use of limited wish I've ever used personally was either to remove an NPC (Lavinia, fellow PC love interest) from the path of an attack that would have killed her (hero point to act out of turn)...As an aside, Peter Stewart: Were you playing in a Roman Republic/Empire campaign?
Nope, this was in Kain Darkwind's Savage Tide Adventure Path, during the Sanguine Soiree. The party (with some NPC allies) was cleaning house on some lower level rogues and fighters when we got a taste of an enemy with super speed. Having trouble hurting the party fighters (Heinrick and Einar) he swapped to targeting one of the NPCs we had along, Lavinia. Heinrick used a hero point to act out of turn and try and stop him / protect Lavinia, only to eat the rogue talent allows an opponent to redirect an attack at an adjacent ally (in this case his lover).
At that point the party wizard, Katrina Islaran used her own hero point to act out of turn and limited wish Lavinia to safety - in this case into another room.
Eventually the party overcame their super-fast foe with a repulsion that the GM ruled effectively splattered him when he hit it (having no idea it was there).
Indeed. Actually I've heard fellow gamers relate stories almost exactly like that, but I suspect they were apocryphal. That probably happened once, and the tale has been passed around the gaming community as a "friend of a friend" story ever since.
It's a good thing you never said, "I wish I knew what this ring was," while wearing the ring.Though that would've been pretty amazing in a kind of depressing sort of way.
Apocryphal no longer. I was in a game where that EXACT THING happened. We had an unidentified ring of one wish, and were trapped in a farmhouse surrounded by hobgoblin and half-orc mercenaries. Our party thief, just making small talk at the time, happened to say the fatal words while we were brainstorming ideas to get out alive. We never let him hold unidentified magic items again.
Eventually the party overcame their super-fast foe with a repulsion that the GM ruled effectively splattered him when he hit it (having no idea it was there).
Not quite. You guys had readied actions, and when he hit the field he became visible, and subjected to those actions. Which splattered him.
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A DM I played with allowed a powerful miracle to cure an entire city of a drug addiction in a Kingmaker campaign I was in. A local drug dealer had a huge number of people in the city hooked on a synthetic drug he had made to addict the city. Once we had finished him off and destroyed the source of the drug creation, the Life Oracle used a 25k miracle to cure the entire city of drug addiction. It was pretty awesome.
She was the most beloved figure in the kingdom. A high Charisma, stunningly beautiful life oracle that healed the sick and protected the people from exploitation and cruelty. The use of a miracle to cure the city of drug addiction raised her up to saint status with the people.
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Not a wish "spell" more of a DM being magnanimous.
This story is about a homebrewed d20 game, from around the time of 1st ed Ad&d
A favorite story told by an old DM of mine involved a recurring character he had in his campaigns, Joe the Grinder. Joe was a travelling craftsman, that used his magical grinding stone to add a temporary +1 to any weapon he sharpened. Unfortunately for the PCs, he was an unforgiving magical thief. After 24 hours, anything he had touched with his left index finger was magically transported to him.
In one campaign, Joe had gotten away with leaving the party in nothing but their tighty-whities, and in an uncharacteristic bit of charity, the DM told each player they could have one item back. After going around the table, and players getting various bits and parts of thier stuff back, weapons, armor, a shield, etc, he got to one player and it went a a bit like this:
DM: How bout you, what are you getting back?
PC: (Thinks for a moment)Remember that grenade we found 2 weeks ago?
DM: Yes, you want that back?
PC: Nope, just the pin.
PCs didnt have to deal with Joe for the rest of that campaign.
This didn't actually *happen*, but I was going to play it that way if it did, so here's another "magnanimous GM" tale.
Recall the kisune bard who wished he'd live as long as his drow companion? They came up against a ghost. Corrupting touch specifically reads that creatures immune to magical aging effects are immune, so I was going to give him a freebie on it, and have him be immune. (Cool storytelling, little game effect since I knew the ghost didn't stand a ghost of a chance against the paladin.)
Unfortunately, the ghost touched (and killed) their little gnome sorcerer instead.
Yeah, the ghost didn't do well against the paladin once he pulled that little stunt...
Wait, seriously? It's the name of the spell in question, one published in 3.0/3.5 by WotC, and you can't say it? Was he supposed to say 'mind not-rape'? It isn't like the word was used willy-nilly. I understand that the mods can't be everywhere and probably have half a million things flagged every day, but this is starting to get a little ridiculous.
(Incidentally, I was going to PM this, but couldn't find out how - apparently the PM option no longer exists or I can no longer do so?)
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Huh, I had no idea that was an actual spell name from Book of Vile Darkness. I apologize for my bit of ignorance there. Those posts have been unremoved. Please keep in mind that we'd like to keep the forums friendly for all users and have a zero tolerance policy for misuse of the word 'rape.'
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Thanks, Chris. You and Peter sorted this out before I managed to mention anything, but I appreciate both Paizo's policy, and your willingness to undo a mistake once you learned of it! :)
(Incidentally, no need to apologize for the ignorance - it's just ignorance. The d20 system as a lot of different things, I own many, if not most of 'em, and I'm still learning things I didn't know.)
I was thinking of posting before the thread resurrection, but now I think I should: Just because the spell is named in a 3rd-party document doesn't mean it's an OK name.
- We have freedom of speech in this country, meaning anyone can publish any dreck they want. And that's a Good Thing. (I submit Twilight as an example.)
- On a privately-owned, moderated messageboard, the moderators can choose to limit that free speech to align with their beliefs and viewpoints. In my opinion, this is also a Good Thing, though it can certainly be misused.
So yes, it's a real spell name. Yes, it's a really offensive spell name. Should it be excised? Not my decision. But I'm pretty thick-skinned and the spell name did raise my eyebrows and make me ask, "Did they REALLY name a spell something THAT out-and-out offensive?"
So I don't think Chris was out of line to remove it, and I don't think she was out of line to put it back.
Just keep in mind that, "It was published in a book," does not automatically equal, "It is OK to post on Paizo's messageboards."
It's a good thing you never said, "I wish I knew what this ring was," while wearing the ring.
Slightly unrelated story. I ran a 3.5 game where the group didn't have easy access to identify and was trying to figure out magic items through trial and error. One of the PCs got a pair of boots that allowed you to run up walls, but it was one thing they never thought to try. They actually ended up just wearing the boots without figuring out what they did.
A session or two later, a psionicist PC joined the group who could wall-run themselves while psionically focused. As a prank they tried to convince the "dumb fighter" that anyone could run up walls and got them to try it. They were wearing the boots.
The expression on everyone's face when I announce that the fighter manages to do it and runs up the wall perfectly was priceless.
As part of a negotiation involving freeing a Pit Fiend, the players got a single wish from the outsider (granted to the rogue).
Rogue "So what magic items do you have?"
Pit Fiend "A very powerful dagger that deals grievous wounds to its victims."
Rogue "Awesome, I'll take it!"
It was a +5 backbiter dagger (the party was level 9, so a +5 weapon was pretty cool). This particular one did one point of damage to the wielder for every point he or she did to an enemy.
It turned out by "victims" the Pit Fiend meant the wielder.
This is one I actually pulled off.
I held out my hand and waited for a magic lamp to appear.
Then I rubbed the lamp and summoned the genie.
Then I said, "I wish I had this lamp in my hand thirty seconds ago."
So I got two wishes for the price of absolutely no effort on my part and a slight diminishing of the soul of Causality.