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Many people talk about how powerful wish is.
I'm not talking about how to subvert a wish or how a wish was 'bent'.
Other than the ones that are listed as 'no big deal' in the actual spell description, I'm curious to see what ideas made it past your gm's 'nerf/subvert' filter and were just totally granted without complaint/qualification!
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I played in a campaign where the party wizard tried to wish for a change in his personal spell mechanics so that instead of regaining his spells each time he rested for 8 hours he would get them every night at midnight (without resting). Keep in mind it was close to midnight and he was out of spells and we were on a time limit and deep inside the enemy territory. I'm thinking to myself "It's fine if he makes it so it doesn't start until tomorrow night." But no. The DM totally just let him do it. So a few minutes later he had all his spells back. Including wish. And you know what he wished for? To go back to the 8 hour rest mechanic. And the dumbass DM let him do it! Needless to say we made short work of the BBEG.
Racial change from human to elf and Strength becoming 18/00 from 18/something.
Both in AD&D, the only system I have seen wishes go off in (and I was the DM in both cases).
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I've not done a wish in a long, long time. Certainly not in Pathfinder.
Most of the wishes that I've granted have been for things like permanent attribute boosts or raising a really, really dead character. A long, long time ago I granted my brother's character ambidexterity, but that was in AD&D days.
The best wish any character of mine ever got granted was to have a whole bunch of crazy monty haul powers given to my character removed and restored him to being a reasonably playable character. When we completed a major quest our GM inexplicably decided to turn all of our characters into literal superheroes. My ranger became a sort of sword-wielding Green Lantern who could fly at superspeed, was invulnerable to anything but yellow and could manifest "real" illusions.
The look on the GM's face when I wished all that away was priceless.
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The coolest nonstandard wish I ever got for myself was the ability to always teleport my gear into my possession whenever it became separated from my person. Not only did it totally screw disarming duelists, I could die, return via clones half a world away, and still have all my gear available to me. Totally threw the whole "losing your gear is a fate worse than death at high levels" trope right out the window.
Another wish I made, wasn't at all magical, but no less a wish: After being captured, beaten, and insulted by the eldest daughter and heir of our campaign world's most prominent drow noble house, I traded knowledge of a powerful artifact's location to the matron mother for my wish: the daughter's everlasting servitude as my personal slave. The matron mother didn't even hesitate. The incredibly useful drow mystic theurge went from being the second most powerful drow in her society to becoming worse than nothing. I've never been so...satisfied...as when I got my revenge that day.
I played in a campaign where the party wizard tried to wish for a change in his personal spell mechanics so that instead of regaining his spells each time he rested for 8 hours he would get them every night at midnight (without resting). Keep in mind it was close to midnight and he was out of spells and we were on a time limit and deep inside the enemy territory. I'm thinking to myself "It's fine if he makes it so it doesn't start until tomorrow night." But no. The DM totally just let him do it. So a few minutes later he had all his spells back. Including wish. And you know what he wished for? To go back to the 8 hour rest mechanic. And the dumbass DM let him do it! Needless to say we made short work of the BBEG.
Doesn't seem so bad, considering he's out 50,000gp for a very short moment of glory. I could make myself a +10 armor, a mirror of opposition, or a ring of spell turning for that kind of money.
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Not my Wish, but the best one I ever saw in play.
Our low level group of adventurers was investigating the disappearance of Little Johnny Bupkis, in a small farming town. I think we'd discovered his body, but I'm not sure we'd figured out he'd been killed by a yellow musk creeper. The gypsies came through town with their Deck of Many Things, and the paladin got a Wish. No hesitation, no thinking it over, no Holy Avenger, but "I wish LJB were alive and well!"
The DM pulls out a mini of LJB as a musk zombie, all yellow and with vines. "I guess you won't be fighting this, then..." Ten levels later, the paladin took leadership and now LJB is a life oracle after his brush with death and fiendish plant-dom.
A GM in a previous campaign allowed us to use wishes to make weapons greater than +5, I ended up with a +7 or +8 sword. It was one plus per wish, and the sword had to make a saving throw. I was a cleric of his version of a luck god and could manipulate my die rolls to a limited extent. That made the saving throws almost guaranteed.
I would have expected the answers from pathfinder to be a little more tame just because pathfinder went to the lengths it did to specify the kinds of wishes that shouldnt be subverted, but it seems like even as far back as ad&d2e the wishes that the untwisted wish was a rare thing indeed.
The best i've seen was similar to an old Dragon Ball Z episode with freeza...
The PCs, as a group, wished that everyone who has died by the hand of the big demon bad guy was alive again.
Mind you, the wish was granted by a Pleroma Aeon (the floating guy holding the sphere of creation and oblivion in bestiary 2)
I played in a campaign where the party wizard tried to wish for a change in his personal spell mechanics so that instead of regaining his spells each time he rested for 8 hours he would get them every night at midnight (without resting). Keep in mind it was close to midnight and he was out of spells and we were on a time limit and deep inside the enemy territory. I'm thinking to myself "It's fine if he makes it so it doesn't start until tomorrow night." But no. The DM totally just let him do it. So a few minutes later he had all his spells back. Including wish. And you know what he wished for? To go back to the 8 hour rest mechanic. And the dumbass DM let him do it! Needless to say we made short work of the BBEG.
Wait I'm confused as to why the GM was a dumbass for letting him change back.
Seems like in the long run "I get my spells back automatically at 12 AM no matter what" is a lot more powerful than "I need 8 hours of straight and uninterrupted rest to get spells back". Suddenly the Ring of Sustenance and a Wizard becomes a whole new ball game.
Teeth would be lost, bones would break (horse and Mongol), arrows are going to go everywhere, momentum and weight will kill.
I gave my players a set of wishes recently, (one each), and three were used to recover dead PCs. One went unused because the player didnt trust the wish-granter.
I've notified all players in my game that Wish and associated spells are NOT player castable in my world. Wishes should be rare, hard won treasures, not usable 2-3/day of you have enough cash on ya.
In a game I was in years back, a character was given a ring of three wishes. He used two of them for unlimited flight at will and invisibility at will, then wished for a ton of cash. He then took the cash, and since the DM also allowed us to purchase ANYTHING in the DMG treasure list, bought himself a fully charged Luck Blade, gaining another stack of wishes!
Wait I'm confused as to why the GM was a dumbass for letting him change back.Seems like in the long run "I get my spells back automatically at 12 AM no matter what" is a lot more powerful than "I need 8 hours of straight and uninterrupted rest to get spells back". Suddenly the Ring of Sustenance and a Wizard becomes a whole new ball game.
I guess I didn't really give enough context. That's my fault. But this BBEG we prepared for was something that took us 8 sessions to even FIND and he just let another player steal the spotlight. It was quite literally one of the best build ups to one of the most interesting BBEG's I'v ever seen and he let the player do a quick refresh to be in perfect condition. As to him switching BACK again...it mattered only in that he was able to get all his spells back again at the same time the rest of the party did. And so when we were on the go and being attacked by the remains of team evil...he was fresh as a daisy again.
Faerunian heroes sucked into Ravenloft who decided to make war on the plane.
We used miracles and wishes to manipulate the consequrnces of slaying the dark lords, having less objectionable territories or appropriate new lord possibilities take over.
We also once relocated a community of desmodo out of the way of our rival (a LE expanding empire inspired by our tactics).
In another game i had an epic cerebromancer who had sold his soul to Mask to get their aid averting an apocalypse. At the end of the campaign, he used a wish to transfer his soul to the plane of dreams, as there god and class powers meant nothing so he could stay free forever. Did it in a timestop explosive suicide to prevent divine intervention.
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My friend wished for "a dragon for his shield."
He then wished for the ancient red dragon to be gone, luckily before it ate him.
Then he wished for "a dragon on a shield."
Everyone left him to deal with the very unhappy ancient red dragon that found itself standing on a large shield.
Too bad he didn't try this in combat.
My friend wished for "a dragon for his shield."
He then wished for the ancient red dragon to be gone, luckily before it ate him.
Then he wished for "a dragon on a shield."
Everyone left him to deal with the very unhappy ancient red dragon that found itself standing on a large shield.
Too bad he didn't try this in combat.
What exactly was he trying to wish for???
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Plus that one sounds entirely like subversion instead of flat out giving him what he actually wanted. True the wording of the wish was sort of begging for it but I was looking more for 'what kinds of wishes have your gms allowed that they didnt want to twist.
I'm kind of creating a gauge for 'how powerful is a wish' and so far even with ad&d2e included in the answers the bulk of evidence suggests that 'getting exactly what you want without suffering' just flat out doesnt happen unless your wish is pretty meh in the first place.
I was also looking to hear some creative imaginative flavorful fun wishes but I'm getting the impression that they either don't happen or also get hammed by subversion as well.
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Many people talk about how powerful wish is.
I'm not talking about how to subvert a wish or how a wish was 'bent'.
Other than the ones that are listed as 'no big deal' in the actual spell description, I'm curious to see what ideas made it past your gm's 'nerf/subvert' filter and were just totally granted without complaint/qualification!
Shouldn't this be in other game systems, since we must be talking about the pre-pathfinder version?
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Something tells me the next step in DarkLightHitomi's story could easily been 'then we gave him 2 more wishes just so he could make another attempt after learning his lesson so his 4th wish was 'I want a dragon on my shield' followed by 'I wish this dragon would stop sitting on my shield arm...'
I know what he wanted was a shield with a dragon filigree design on it. What he got was classic subversion instead. It kinda bumbs me out to see such a mundane wish get subverted but if thats how low the subversion bar starts then I'm not surprised that the only wishes people get away with are ones that are relatively 'meh'.
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Well, there's nothing in the pathfinder version that says wish is limited in any way. It just suggests which wishes shouldnt be subverted and leaves any other kind of wish to be handled by fiat.
I was curious if anyone ever tried to break the 'suggested' threshhold if they ever got away with it and it sounds like not only is the answer 'don't even try it, gms are cruel and love being given license to nerf any wish that isn't already outlined in the description' but the philosophy of nerfing a wish even as meager as 'give me a pretty shield' meant becoming dragon lunch has been going on a lot longer than just pathfinder.
By this measure it would imply that most gms look at the pathfinder list of suggested 'things a wish should be able to do without being nerfed' as being perhaps even too generous for their tastes.
For being aesthetically a 'capstone ability' and one of the classic examples of how brokenly powerful casters are its funny that this spell boils down to 'now that i'm 9th level i've got a spell that when I cast it it's pretty much saying "please hurt me terribly with literally no personal benefit to myself" to the gm.
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Seriously, I have seen a few wishes pulled off without trouble:
1. restarting a daily use ability of another character
2. confounding a wipe out the party deck of many things (I wish we never found this.)
3. killing a tarrasque (after it was in the negatives)
I plan on trying the pizza thing next time I get one of my wizards into the wish zone.
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I wish to have some of that nice pizza you bought Mr. Dm. Ohh and a coke from the fridge.
Meta-wish is amazing.
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Well, there's nothing in the pathfinder version that says wish is limited in any way. It just suggests which wishes shouldnt be subverted and leaves any other kind of wish to be handled by fiat.
I was curious if anyone ever tried to break the 'suggested' threshhold if they ever got away with it and it sounds like not only is the answer 'don't even try it, gms are cruel and love being given license to nerf any wish that isn't already outlined in the description' but the philosophy of nerfing a wish even as meager as 'give me a pretty shield' meant becoming dragon lunch has been going on a lot longer than just pathfinder.
By this measure it would imply that most gms look at the pathfinder list of suggested 'things a wish should be able to do without being nerfed' as being perhaps even too generous for their tastes.
For being aesthetically a 'capstone ability' and one of the classic examples of how brokenly powerful casters are its funny that this spell boils down to 'now that i'm 9th level i've got a spell that when I cast it it's pretty much saying "please hurt me terribly with literally no personal benefit to myself" to the gm.
It lets you replicate pretty much every other non-9th level spell in the game, regardless of what you memorized...which is pretty badass.
And I always read the "but doing so is dangerous" as part of the classic trope of any wish spell, but also permission for the GM to be flexible and maintain some level of control.
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And I agree with you there ciretose that gm fiat is expressly written in to the spell. What I'm starting to see here is a pattern where its not 'a possibility' but instead is 'practically guaranteed and encouraged. The GM beatdown incurred from using the wish in an interesting or imaginative way is so severe that I'm not seeing ANY wish letting something cool or imaginative thing happen.
I feel thats a very interesting statement about gms...
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And I agree with you there ciretose that gm fiat is expressly written in to the spell. What I'm starting to see here is a pattern where its not 'a possibility' but instead is 'practically guaranteed and encouraged. The GM beatdown incurred from using the wish in an interesting or imaginative way is so severe that I'm not seeing ANY wish letting something cool or imaginative thing happen.
I feel thats a very interesting statement about gms...
I've had GMs go the other way when it was needed to help save the PCs and it was done unselfishly for the benefit of the game (basically it was a wish that allowed the heroes to save the day in the context of the story)
I've only seen wishes twisted when players were trying to abuse it, and even then the GM warned them with the "are you sure..." first, so the player was basically asking for it.
It wasn't actually a wish spell, but once I asked a dragon to give me all the gold he could. He gave me a magic bag that had an effectively limitless supply of gold in it. I have seen a wish for to additional arms get granted back in 3.5 so the character could use multiattack, and more recently I saw someone get a wish granted to gain the Shadowdancer's shadow jump ability. That one was partially twisted though since every time the character character shadow jumped, she had about a 10% chance to call demons.
We found a couple of luck blades ( total of four wishes over the course of the campaign ) and 3 of them ended up going to "I wish for a Resurrection for gnome since she got burned to death, again"
it wasn't any fault of the player's, that gnome just had terrible luck with fire-based die rolls.
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Many people talk about how powerful wish is.
I'm not talking about how to subvert a wish or how a wish was 'bent'.
Other than the ones that are listed as 'no big deal' in the actual spell description, I'm curious to see what ideas made it past your gm's 'nerf/subvert' filter and were just totally granted without complaint/qualification!
I don't know if you'd consider this powerful, but it granted a power that remained useful throughout a long-running AD&D 2e campaign:
Early on, like second level, our party found an unidentifiable magic ring. Nobody had Identify (or it failed, I can't recall which) so we tried all the usual tests; tried to fly, jumped off a 10' roof, tried to become invisible etc. but couldn't figure out what it did. My PC took it anyway and wore it constantly, figuring it's function would eventually be revealed.
At some point my character and one other were hiding in some bushes watching a group of enemies pass along a road. At some sudden inspiration she'd had, the other character whispered to mine "Oh, I wish I had the power of telekinesis!", to which my character replied "well I wish I had that power too, but. . ." and suddenly realized that he did, in fact, now possess the power of telekinesis. The ring had been a Ring of One Wish.
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As a GM, if I don't think a given wish would work, I let my players know it. I do not twist poorly worded/thought out wishes unless they are coming from en evil source known for doing such things. Essentially, when a player is responsible for his own wish, or is obtaining it from a neutral/allied source, I operate under the assumption that the PLAYER is describing to me his intent, and that his character is wording it in such a way as to make it happen.
As a player, if my GM doesn't give me similar courtesies, I don't make the wish at all. If a GM screws me over on a perfectly nice wish, ruining rather than enhancing everyone's fun, I quit his game immediately, go home, and throw darts at his photo.
Many people talk about how powerful wish is.
I'm not talking about how to subvert a wish or how a wish was 'bent'.
Other than the ones that are listed as 'no big deal' in the actual spell description, I'm curious to see what ideas made it past your gm's 'nerf/subvert' filter and were just totally granted without complaint/qualification!
I don't know if you'd consider this powerful, but it granted a power that remained useful throughout a long-running AD&D 2e campaign:
Early on, like second level, our party found an unidentifiable magic ring. Nobody had Identify (or it failed, I can't recall which) so we tried all the usual tests; tried to fly, jumped off a 10' roof, tried to become invisible etc. but couldn't figure out what it did. My PC took it anyway and wore it constantly, figuring it's function would eventually be revealed.
At some point my character and one other were hiding in some bushes watching a group of enemies pass along a road. At some sudden inspiration she'd had, the other character whispered to mine "Oh, I wish I had the power of telekinesis!", to which my character replied "well I wish I had that power too, but. . ." and suddenly realized that he did, in fact, now possess the power of telekinesis. The ring had been a Ring of One Wish.
Thats a neat way for that to play out and it fits what i'm looking for. Essentially a 'powerful' wish is anything that isnt already covered under the wriiten wish spell in the book. Bringing back dead characters is already on the list, so its not 'powerful' by the published defiinition to use it as such. Perhaps I should change my request to include whats the most interesting wish you've seen granted that wasnt subverted. Gms dont tend to break the versions that are of the published variety but though theres nothing in the book that says 'you have to' break a wish that isnt of the listed variety, I'm seeing a trend that points more towards gms preferring it. I guess you cant totally fault the gms though... Interesting wish or not, maybe players just arent very good at making wishes that are mindful of maintaining game balance. Clearly the line for what breaks game balance and what doesnt is pretty low,
As a GM, if I don't think a given wish would work, I let my players know it. I do not twist poorly worded/thought out wishes unless they are coming from en evil source known for doing such things. Essentially, when a player is responsible for his own wish, or is obtaining it from a neutral/allied source, I operate under the assumption that the PLAYER is describing to me his intent, and that his character is wording it in such a way as to make it happen.
As a player, if my GM doesn't give me similar courtesies, I don't make the wish at all. If a GM screws me over on a perfectly nice wish, ruining rather than enhancing everyone's fun, I quit his game immediately, go home, and throw darts at his photo.
I'm right there with ya, sir! The way I run it basically if a wish comes in thats too powerful and the power granting it isnt an evil subverter kind I'll say 'thats a little outside the scope. You still have the wish but if you could maybe dial down your idea in some way (or if I can think of them, offer suggested alternatives) in a way that they still get what they're asking for in a way thats not over the top.
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We found a couple of luck blades ( total of four wishes over the course of the campaign ) and 3 of them ended up going to "I wish for a Resurrection for gnome since she got burned to death, again"
it wasn't any fault of the player's, that gnome just had terrible luck with fire-based die rolls.
FIRE BAD!
*sigh* Poor Molly... she and fire just did NOT get along...
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I don't know if you'd consider this powerful, but it granted a power that remained useful throughout a long-running AD&D 2e campaign:
Early on, like second level, our party found an unidentifiable magic ring. Nobody had Identify (or it failed, I can't recall which) so we tried all the usual tests; tried to fly, jumped off a 10' roof, tried to become invisible etc. but couldn't figure out what it did. My PC took it anyway and wore it constantly, figuring it's function would eventually be revealed.
At some point my character and one other were hiding in some bushes watching a group of enemies pass along a road. At some sudden inspiration she'd had, the other character whispered to mine "Oh, I wish I had the power of telekinesis!", to which my character replied "well I wish I had that power too, but. . ." and suddenly realized that he did, in fact, now possess the power of telekinesis. The ring had been a Ring of One Wish.
It's a good thing you never said, "I wish I knew what this ring was," while wearing the ring.
Though that would've been pretty amazing in a kind of depressing sort of way.
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It's a good thing you never said, "I wish I knew what this ring was," while wearing the ring.Though that would've been pretty amazing in a kind of depressing sort of way.
Indeed. Actually I've heard fellow gamers relate stories almost exactly like that, but I suspect they were apocryphal. That probably happened once, and the tale has been passed around the gaming community as a "friend of a friend" story ever since.
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In first edition we were fighting a bandit leader. Our fighter (using The Equalizer of the Gran March) rolled a crit, confirmed and sent the bandit to the etheral plane. While we were all high-fiving, the bandit leader reappeared and said "You just made me use my wish, and now your going to pay." It turns out he had a luckblade.
In 3e, we found a ring of three wishes. We used to the first to save the life of one character who had just had his heart ripped out by a cleric of Orcus. The second was used to save our buts when we (foolishly in hindsight) frontally assualted a denfensive tower. Never got the the third wish.
In Hackmaster, towards the end of the campaign, we had finally put together all of the pieces and realized we had stumbled into a War of the Gods. So one of the gods backs us up to do what he cant and provides us each with a wish and a boon. My boon was for a neverending sandwich. It would regenerate whatever was eaten (and was a different type every time). For my wish . . Well I joined the campaign late and because of the XP rules I was always the lowest level character. Tired of that (and thinking the DM wouldn't grant it, but not careing) I wished to be the highest level character until the end of the conflict. Instantly, I gained like 8 levels. As it turned out, we failed the mission so the god of evil we were trying to stop continued the war. Which meant my characte would be the highest level for the next 10,000 years. :)
My favorite occured in GURPS. I was playing a dumb as bricks fighter who superstitiously grabbed onto many (non-magical) items because he thought adventuring would enchant them. (His favorite weapon was Slaying Stone, a spear that was really just a rock tied to the end of a stick. Totally mundane, but it did roll a lot of crits.) Anyways, we were in some Mi-Go ruins do some research. Most of it was in Mi-Go which nobody read. So the literate characters were reading what they could and my character was bored. Carelessly I said, "I wish I could read Mi-Go". The GM asked me if I really said that, and I said sure why not? Then a ring I had grabbed glowed and the Mi-Go language flowed into my mind. I as a player had no idea it was a ring of three wished (and that it was linked to Hastur.
Ive been sitting on this idea for a min.
Would aney DM alow a PC to successfully wish for the Manipulate Form (mammals) ability or is it a game breaker?
Manipulate Form (Su): At will, ------- can modify the form of any (spesific subtype) native to (world name), except for aquatic and undead creatures. With a successful touch attack, he/she can cause one alteration of his choice in the target creature's body. The target falls unconscious for 2d4 rounds due to the shock of changing form. A successful DC 23 Fortitude negates both the change and the unconsciousness.
------ may use this ability to change a minor aspect of the target creature, such as the shape of its head or the color of its skin/fur/scales. He/she may also choose to make a much more significant alteration, such as converting limbs into tentacles, changing overall body shape (snake to humanoid, for example), or adding or removing an appendage. Any ability score may be decreased to a minimum of 1 or increased to a maximum equal to ------- corresponding score. --------- may also grant the target an extraordinary ability or remove one from it.
The change bestowed takes effect immediately and is permanent. Furthermore, the alterations are automatically passed on to all the creature's offspring when it breeds with another of its unmodified kind.
This might make a good plot twist for a palidin.
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And I agree with you there ciretose that gm fiat is expressly written in to the spell. What I'm starting to see here is a pattern where its not 'a possibility' but instead is 'practically guaranteed and encouraged. The GM beatdown incurred from using the wish in an interesting or imaginative way is so severe that I'm not seeing ANY wish letting something cool or imaginative thing happen.
I feel thats a very interesting statement about gms...
I have only heard of two experiences with wishes (that weren't third party or more) and the second time was a character who had been cursed losing all levels in a particular class and then was granted a wish that gave him those levels in another class. He was new and didn't really like how the class played and he wanted to change it, so the GM ran him and the party through a few side quest moments to make it happen in game.
@Ravingdork
He wanted a dragon picture on his shield. His character was a simpleton and didn't really want more then he had.
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My party wished that the runaway nobleman's daughter would not have to marry the old baron whom she had been promised to, but that no one be permanently harmed in doing so.
The genie turned the baron into a twelve year old girl.
This is also the only wish I have ever seen in play.
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As a GM I have never deliberately twisted a wish granted by any means other than an evil wish granter who is expected to do such things. In fact I consider that sort of thing to be Gygax-style GM buffoonery. As RD does, if a wish is too much, I simply tell the player the wish will not work and have them try again.
There are all sorts of things in this game where some gamers seem to think it's an absolute hoot when the GM "pulls one over" on the party. I've never cared for that, whether it's a wish or any other activity. I simply don't view the GM's role as one-upping the player. Never have.
For a change of pace, my players were going through a silly hack&slash Tomb of Horrors survival session. After getting a deck of many things, one of the players wished for big, flashy, light-emitting traffic arrows, pointing the way to the BBEG's location and any treasure under the way.
This was a strange call to make. On the one hand, it was a relatively underwhelming use of Wish, on the other it changed the very structure of that impenetrable Tomb of Horrors. I decided to roll with it.
The other players were quite frustrated that she hadn't used the wish to simply bring the party to the BBEG, but she answered that they'd miss out on all the loot under the way. Unfortunately, the PCs got slaughtered follow the fiery arrows before they ever reached the BBEG... *grin*
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At a game where I sadly couldn't attend, there was a big huge fight in a lich's phylactery lair. It was guarded by some big, bad, evil, spellcasting beastie. She was killing a player a round. The rogue/bard fellow said "nuts to this" and raided the treasure vault prematurely. Appraised successfully a ring of wishes among the treasure, picked it up and said, "I wish she didn't show up today." Time rewinds. The other players break into the vault to see the rogue/bard standing inside the treasure vault already. "Hi guys!" "How did you get in here?" "Nevermind that, wanna help with the treasure?"