To be as clear as I can, here are the details:
Gm is running a Homebrew game, Pathfinder-Only source. It's set in a "Dark Carnival" "sins of the flesh" style society. Daytime is business as usual, prim and proper, but at night, the maskscome out, and everybody is having sex, doing drugs, or something in between.
While beaurocracy exists, and you have your standard business operations, gypsys, fortune tellers, and travelling carnivals are all over the place, and greatly respected.
About 40% of the world is covered by cities. The largest of those can take up to 8 days to walk from one end to the other, an average city is about 1-day-wide.. There are of course smaller towns/villages/farms in between, but that's the majority of things.
Other than that there is about 30% of the world covered in water, and the remaining 30% is called the "Wildlands" where monsters roam free and unchecked.
Things to note: The GM doesn't like powergaming, and has already stated that he would prefer it to be a more role-play oriented game.
Monstrous races (as long as they're mostly humanoid) are fine in the big cities, but things like Minotaurs, Mindflayers, and Beholders stay out (mostly).
What we know: There is an ancient sect of magical warriors (Magus NPCs) that protect the Wildland borders... They make sure that nobody that shouldn't come in comes in without proper authority, and they also ensure that the cities don't "overexpand" into wildland terriroty.
There is also no Pantheon in this game, so all religions are either political, or faith-based.
The leaders of each gigantic city (there are 5) have a treaty with tribal leaders of the Wildlands, as well as the Dragons of the wildlands to not expand moooore than 1% each year to make up for the natural growth of the wilds.
Druids are the primary wildland NPC, with some rangers, and barbarians thrown in. There are no paladins, but Faith-based clerics are ok.
For the most part, adventuring is incredibly rare, and mostly frowned upon in society because there is no real reason to venture outside of the cities for the average person. There are more opportunities to make money (both in terms of stability and amount), better social standing, and a more stable life to be had just making your way. Even "commoners" make nearly as much money as standard adventurers. It's difficult to be poor in this world. However, we 4 are adventurers for our own reasons.
So each of us PCs had to come up with a good reason for adventuring. A damn good one, because the GM is also a fiction writer, so he wanted good Roleplay material so he can document our adventures and have it feel natural to the characters within the world he's created.
Ok, so now on to the meat of my question.
The GM has created about 4 additional races to exist within his game. Illithids (recreated from3.5), Aukliss (a winged fey race home to tall forests), Mammothians (elephant-like humanoids/outsiders) that dwell on the plains and avoid civilization, and Whale-folk who dwell in the diminishing seas.
Of those 4, we have an Aukliss Witch/Druid Theurge (I don't know her reason for adventuring as we haven't officially started yet and everything is being kept very hush-hush)
And I am wanting to play a Mammothian Gunslinger (Advanced Firearms are hyper-rare and considered high-tier magic items, so I'll be using basic at first).
It's a 12th level game. Here are the Mammothian stats
+2 Wis/Con, -2 Cha
Outsider - Native
40ft Movespeed
Medium Size
+2 on Craft checks dealing with metal/stone
1/day Expeditious Retreat as a SLA
Spell Resistance 6+ Chalvl
Ham-Fisted (Can wield large weapons without penalty, counts as large for CMBs/CMDs)
and Multi-Armed (Trunk instead of arm/hand).
Natural Weapon (Trunk - Slam)
They are a nomadic plains-dwelling race. According to the GM they would rather run than face unfamiliar or unfriendly races. They don't like humans at all, nor do they like the city-dwelling elves for turning their back on the forests. Natural Crafstmen, they are a self-sufficient race,, and for the most part just keep to themselves. Occasionally outsiders will seek out other races to trade goods, or wanderlust will call to the young Mammothian who goes on a Pilgrimage to prove their worth to the community.
Calm, and Calculated socially. But ferocious and fearless in a fight. Tend to wear bright and expressive warpaints, and trophies (teeth/hair/bones) to intimidate their foes.
The Mammothian race is slowly dying as the cities take more and more plains each year. The wildlands contract allows them to expand each city by 1% to make up for the natural growth of the wildlands, but the cities find it easier to just resettle the plains than to chop down tress of the forest, or irrigate deserts. So most of them become druids, or something similar to shape what is left of the wild to suit their need to roam and have open space.
Usually stand around 7-8ft tall, skin tones from light grey, to brown, to black. Males can have tusks that increase the damage of their Slam attack by adding 1d4 damage dice.
I'm just wondering if this race would make a good gunslinger, (I'm thinking dual wield pistoleer) and if somebody might be willing to help me out with some backstory information. Right now my reason for adventuring is that I am a young Mammothian on my "Prove your worth" quest to attain respected status in my tribe and be recognized as a mature adult. However, when I returned from my long quest (reaching level 12 along the way) I found all of our usual homelands settled with cities built upon them.
I found another tribe of Mammothians but they hadn't seen nor heard from my tribe in many years. I finally found a relic of our tribe in the hands of a wandering drow party deep in the mountains, and am now seeking a way to reach to the deep dark ("the underdark" basically) to see what clues I can find about what remains of my tribe. Any other suggestions/comments/questions?
If you are asking if the race is overpowered, yeah it is.
If you are asking if you should play it... this is the GM's homebrew, treat it as a playtest, and enjoy the game with no guilt. Not everything needs to be apples to apples comparisons all the time.
For instance, I absolutely loathe the old "gestalt" rules, but I don't begrudge others having fun using them. Treat this as a similar issue.
Role-playing you are looking at a pretty standard "fish out of water" character, as a gun toting elephant seems at odds with the 'avoids society' stereotype of the race, so you are going to want to come up with a personal motivation for why adventuring, what drove him away from his home (important question for anyone tribal), what is he trying to prove and who is he trying to prove it to...
I'd use some dramatic license to write some personality into the elephant society, include things like vision quests, ancestor worship, or other elements that could give a young warrior an immediate and tribe-supported motivation to take a potentially endless journey.
According to the GM it uses as many "points" in the ARG as a fetchling, so that's why I'm being allowed to play one. Though he's been consorting with his co-GM and considering dropping the SR.
I've never actually played in a "role playing heavy" game before, so I honestly have no idea where to start.
I have a feeling that the GM is gonna drop the SR, and keep the rest of the stuff on there.
As far as I can tell, I'm about as creative as a brick, I need to have a "past adventure" or several of them that got me to 12th level, and I need to have something that is current as well, which is why I was hoping to use a kind of "find my family" hook. But I can't help but worry it's too cliche
Another concern was the stat bonuses. Should I go with something that has a dex bonus instead of the Mammothian Con/Wis? I think Tengu gives Wis/Dex IIRC so its stats would be more directly beneficial. But I was thinking of using the trunk/arm as a "free hand" to reload my guns with so that I could still dual wield.
As far as the power of the rae goes compared to the party, We also have an Aasimar (15 points in the ARG, the Mammothian ends up being 14 points without the SR) and a Kitsune (Cleric, and Rogue respectively). In addition to the other race the GM made which I think is ~12 points
1. spell resistance needs to go
2. if i was making something like hamfisted it would come along with a negative like taking penalties to using smaller items. maybe an additional penalty to skills that require fine motor skills
3. don't see a need for the increase speed or the expeditious retreat.
4. multiarmed sounds like a haven for power gaming. Seems the opposite of what your gm wants.
5. When you compare the points in the ARG it just points out that the old lvl adjustment system should have stuck around. A lot of them are horrendously unbalanced. That also assumes that you agree with how the points are calculated.
I'd have the trunk arm work like a prehensile tail(possibly with grasping tail as a bonus feat) and remove the spell resistance. Spell Resistance is really something that just should not be in this game. Otherwise everything seems fine.
I agree with the others that a larger creature like this should have bonuses to STR, but it's the creation of your GM so if I was playing the race I wouldn't be trying to go for a gunslinger (although I have to admit to a bias against gunslingers all together in a fantasy setting). I'd work with that WIS and go with a class that can utilize the WIS bonus or the bonus to his ability to wield large weapons. To me that would be more primitive in nature because guns are much more advanced than what you've said this particular race is able to do.
I don't think the race is OP, but I think trying to use the trunk and dual wield pistols would be a bit OP and kind of cheesy and I don't think very realistic with the usage of the trunk and being ham-fisted, it seems to really be more useful to have a big weapon like an over-sized club or sword. Sounds like a Titan Mauler Barbarian might really be a good fit here with this race, then you'll also get 50ft movement on top of it all. Just my 2 cents, and it'd be easier to create a more realistic background for a barbarian of this race than a gunslinger.
Talked to my GM a bit. The race borrowed from Half-Giant (Psionics Unleashed)for the "counts as large" part.
Also, from his explanation, they have expeditious and "fast" because they're plains nomads - they would rather run than fight most of the time (Hence no bonus to str).
He agrees that Gunslinger really doesn't fit the race at all, but is willing to let me "Drizzt" it as he calls it.
To quote him direcly:
"They're hardy, but not strong, they spend their lives moving and wandering, not fighting. If they have to fight, they will - but they'd rather walk away from conflicts than start them. If you want to play a gunslinger, you'd probably be a very young Mammothian who is still hot-headed and filled with the passion of youth. Maybe you found a pistol after a raiding party from the city ventured into your plains to hunt, or just for sport... I guess. I can guaranteed that almost no tribal Mammothian (not all of them stay in the tribe, just about 95% of them) has ever taken levels as a gunslinger. Maybe a ranger, if "Ranged" is what you really want to go with. Why not try crossbows? But if you're dead-set on gunslinging, I'm not going to stop you."
To quote somebody else: "multiarmed sounds like a haven for power gaming. Seems the opposite of what your gm wants."
His explanation was that a trunk is stronger than a prehensile tail, and as Elephants are his second favorite animal, he was just using traits that seemed to fit. If I really wanted to powergame I could take 2 levels of alchemist, and play a half-giant (Who has a similar "Ham-fisted" trait).
Still looking for background and roleplay advice though, if anyone wants to contribute.
Edit: Oh, he's dropped the SR/lvl. He agrees it was a cheap way to bump the character more into the "NPC races" category, but is now willing to let us play it.
Wield the Double-Hackbut :)
I assume that you can wield a medium one without falling over since you are an elephant.
I love the image: An elephant with an elephant gun :D
Another concern was the stat bonuses. Should I go with something that has a dex bonus instead of the Mammothian Con/Wis?
No worries. You'll be targetting touch AC more often than not, so getting your attack bonus as high as possible isn't necessary. Your ac, ref, init, etc will drop a point, but your will, fort, and hp will be a bit better.
It makes more sense to be able to grasp object with your trunk (or drink, or spray) than to make slam attacks. Real elephants don't attack with them.
Still looking for background and roleplay advice though, if anyone wants to contribute.
I'd go with something along the lines that he saw someone he loved/cared about gunned down literally. He killed the person who killed the loved one and experimented with the guns he took off the enemy.
Now he roams around in search of more people who have guns to kill them and take (or destroy) their guns so that they don't use these evil weapons ever again on his people. He's using the evil to defeat the evil basically. In the process, he's become one of the greatest gunslingers to ever have lived...
What's the tech level?
What's the magic level?
What's considered of value? (is water a precious resource?)
* Tech level: Clockwork golems, and basic firearms can be purchased regularly, but are expensive (so only the middle-class and beyond have them). Advanced firearms are still considered relics, and very high-tech. Only the extraordinarily wealth might have the blueprints to make one, but maybe only 10-12 exist in the entire world.
* Magic Level: There is a college for magic in every city based on a much larger Academy that moves around the world, Mages/Wizards/Sorcs (Arcane Casters) are commonplace, specializing where they can to make a living for themselves. (Remember: Adventuring is frowned upon/looked down on because one can make a more stable, and sometimes more lucrative career just in one of the huge cities)
* Valuables are Objects of extra-planar origin. Especially those that can make more space on the inside than the outside. The wealthiest of nobles can afford high level mages to cast/create dimensional pockets inside of tiny buildings to make their homes or stores much larger (Like a tardis, I guess). The components to cast these spells are incredibly rare and expensive. Travel beyond the material plane is extremely dangerous because of the lack of a pantheon (though NPCs don't know that's exactly why) so most people don't go. Those who do come back with riches and wealth to last a lifetime.
* Water is also fairly valuable/expensive because there is so little by comparison to landmass. Once the world was more covered in water, but the cities slowly took over. Going and just taking it from the oceans would upset many of the native species there and might lead to all-out-war.
I'm quoting a lot of this directly from the GM, and adding in what I know when I can.
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"It makes more sense to be able to grasp object with your trunk (or drink, or spray) than to make slam attacks. Real elephants don't attack with them"
* GM has confirmed that players can trade off the "Trunk Arm" feature for tusks that deal "Large Slam Damage +1d4" They don't stack together. You either get the "arm" or the "slam" but not both. I wrote a lot of the information down hastily so I got some of it wrong. Should all be correct now.
Wanted to also say thanks for those who are contributing. I appreciate it a lot.
"Now he roams around in search of more people who have guns to kill them and take (or destroy) their guns so that they don't use these evil weapons ever again on his people. He's using the evil to defeat the evil basically. In the process, he's become one of the greatest gunslingers to ever have lived..."
I like this, but to work it into the world there would probably need to be some changes. In pretty much all of the cities you can find guns. Old guns are pseudo-commonplace (not everyone has them or knows how to use them, but many do) so my character would have their work cut out for them, and would probably be hated or considered KoS for almost every major city if he just wanders in guns blazing on anybody else who has a firearm. Not to mention he very likely would be insta-gibbed by the Duke/King/Earl/Royal Family's guards if they found him. (Though not so much at 12th level, he could probably give a few of them a run for their money before going down).
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EDIT: Here is the updated (and now 100% correct) Race.
+2 Wis/Con, -2 Cha
Outsider - Native
40ft Movespeed
Medium Size
Craftsmen: +2 on Craft checks dealing with metal/stone
Nomadic Outsider: 1/day Expeditious Retreat as a SLA
Ham-Fisted: The physical stature of Mammothians lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger.
Whenever a Mammothian is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for a Combat Maneuver Bonus or Combat Maneuver Defense (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the half-giant is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him.
A Mammothian is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A Mammothian can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefts of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.
Multi-Armed: (Trunk instead of arm/hand). [Can be traded for Trunk/Tusk Slam Natural weapon]
Natural Weapon: (Trunk - Slam) [Must be traded for Multi-Armed, can't have both, only one or the other]
Claustrophobic: The Mammothians hail from the open plains of Celestia originally, and thrive in sunlight and with fresh air. When confined in cities, or caves for too long without a breeze, or sunlight on their faces they grow restless and agitate easily. Because of this, Mammothians who go more than 24 hours without being outdoors take a -2 penalty to all d20 rolls (this penalty increases for each additional 24 hours up to a maximum of -6) until they are exposed to Sunlight (natural, or as the Daylight spell). A Gust of Wind (either natural, or as the spell) will temporarily aid a Mammothian, reducing the penalty by one day. However, this is only usable once per day, and is not a reset to 0 like Sunlight.
Edit: Formatting.
You have an sr of 11. 6th level dude rolls 1d20 +6+casting stat (generally a +3), so 1d20+9, with spell penetration 1d20+10. he doesn't even roll.
Just fyi, getting through spell resistance does not add your casting stat to the check. Just your caster level (so your example would only be 1d20+6 without Spell Pen).
You have an sr of 11. 6th level dude rolls 1d20 +6+casting stat (generally a +3), so 1d20+9, with spell penetration 1d20+10. he doesn't even roll.Just fyi, getting through spell resistance does not add your casting stat to the check. Just your caster level (so your example would only be 1d20+6 without Spell Pen).
Oh hey, I figured out how to actually quote people.
I agree that SR on a PC (unless it's 11+) is pretty useless. It's great fun at lower levels IYAM but tapers off later when you can get it from items.
I'm a little happy he removed it from the race, as it makes it feel a bit more balanced and playable without feeling hypercheesy.
With that race you could swing the DW pistol gunslinger fairly easy. It actually takes care of one of the main sticking points of doing so with primitive firearms, having a free hand to reload. As others have pointed out you'll be using touch attacks mostly so the loss of +2 dex via other race isn't all that bad. The +2 wis gives you an additional grit point which means additional damage come level 5(?) when you can use it for +d6s. And you can use oversized pistols for a little more damage potential.
Even if it works well with dual wielding it'd be a complete waste of Elephant Gun puns.
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"Now he roams around in search of more people who have guns to kill them and take (or destroy) their guns so that they don't use these evil weapons ever again on his people. He's using the evil to defeat the evil basically. In the process, he's become one of the greatest gunslingers to ever have lived..."
I like this, but to work it into the world there would probably need to be some changes. In pretty much all of the cities you can find guns. Old guns are pseudo-commonplace (not everyone has them or knows how to use them, but many do) so my character would have their work cut out for them, and would probably be hated or considered KoS for almost every major city if he just wanders in guns blazing on anybody else who has a firearm. Not to mention he very likely would be insta-gibbed by the Duke/King/Earl/Royal Family's guards if they found him. (Though not so much at 12th level, he could probably give a few of them a run for their money before going down).
Just because he hates gun wielders and seeks to destroy them, doesn't mean he needs to go in "guns blazing" at all. He's not Lawful Stupid, after all. He wanders the world, seeking ways to limit or even reduce the spread and usage of guns. Clandestinely destroying factories, or using his gunslinger abilities to put all gunslingers in a bad light and bring "negative press" to bear, making guns socially shunned. There's just two thoughts off the top of my head how he could accomplish this.
Just because he hates gun wielders and seeks to destroy them, doesn't mean he needs to go in "guns blazing" at all. He's not Lawful Stupid, after all. He wanders the world, seeking ways to limit or even reduce the spread and usage of guns. Clandestinely destroying factories, or using his gunslinger abilities to put all gunslingers in a bad light and bring "negative press" to bear, making guns socially shunned. There's just two thoughts off the top of my head how he could accomplish this."Now he roams around in search of more people who have guns to kill them and take (or destroy) their guns so that they don't use these evil weapons ever again on his people. He's using the evil to defeat the evil basically. In the process, he's become one of the greatest gunslingers to ever have lived..."
I like this, but to work it into the world there would probably need to be some changes. In pretty much all of the cities you can find guns. Old guns are pseudo-commonplace (not everyone has them or knows how to use them, but many do) so my character would have their work cut out for them, and would probably be hated or considered KoS for almost every major city if he just wanders in guns blazing on anybody else who has a firearm. Not to mention he very likely would be insta-gibbed by the Duke/King/Earl/Royal Family's guards if they found him. (Though not so much at 12th level, he could probably give a few of them a run for their money before going down).
Yeah, I like this post. He doesn't have to be stupid about it, he's pretty wise so your overall goal could be to rid the world of guns one gun at a time using your gunslinger skills when necessary and your wit when appropriate. It's a big personal quest, but then again, it is probably going to be an epic campaign for you to play in by the sounds of it.
So we start tomorrow.
I talked most of it over with the GM, did end up going DW Gunslinger, and kept the race.
Here's the backstory I went with for you guys. Also, thanks for all the help. I appreciate it immensely.
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Maluk the Mammothian Gunslinger began life as any ordinary Mammothian child, learning to survive on the plains, and trying to get as much time playing in between. After he reached maturity, he took a role as Tribal Scout, learning to use the bow and crossbow and making sure the pathways between tribal resting grounds were safe.
While returning to his tribe one evening after a long day of scouting Maluk thought he heard voices in a language he didn't recognize so he decided to go and check it out to be sure it wasn't any imminent danger. Humans and Elves occasionally ventured into the Wildlands to hunt big game, or to search for plants and flowers that didn't grow in their suffocating cities (Of which Maluk had only ever seen one, and even that was from a great distance.)
He had never seen an elf up close before, so as he neared the voices he quieted his steps as best he could and got close. Unfortunately for him, Elven ears prove better than Mammothian stealth. Despite his camouflage and precaution he heard a distinct metallic "click" and round cold metal was pressed against the back of his skull.
A voice spoke in crude giant "Turn around, slowly, and drop the bow". As Maluk would find out, the object pressed against his skull was a gun. A black-powder pistol to be precise, and the Elves hunting in the woods weren't hunting game at all, but slaves.
Maluk didn't stay a slave long however, he was sold to a roaming Gypsy Caravan called the Queen's Bastards, and told to learn an act to impress the crowds as his allure of "Mystical rare beast" would wear off quickly. Driven by his immense curiosity over the Elf poacher's weapon, he asked the troupe leader about the strange object and was rewarded with an old, rusted out pistol to call his own.
Over the next several years he learned to repair, maintain, and use the gun in the Gypsy shows as they traveled around. As much as Maluk yearned for home, he would respect the contract made with the Caravan Leader. 10 years in the caravan and he would have his freedom. If he tried to run, he and all his lineage would suffer a great gypsy curse.
Maluk had learned enough of gypsy curses to fear them, and so when the 10th year finally came and passed, he set out on his own to return to his tribe with the newfound technology.
The first Mammothians he found feared his "civilized" and casual nature of approaching them, quickly asking him to leave their tribe and resume seeking his own.
As much as he searched, and no matter where he went he couldn't find a single trace. Every hunting ground, every settling ground was deserted, with no signs of Mammothians for miles and miles around. While in the woods one day preparing to sleep he thought he heard what he now recognized (and spoke) as Elvish. He crept up slowly, and took his pistol in hand. There sitting around a campfire was the same elf poacher that had captured him so long ago, and around his neck was the Chieftan's necklace unique to his tribe. He wore a necklace of finger-bones too thick to be human, and upon his belt was an ivory buckle featuring the blue striping of his own brother.
Enraged, Maluk wildly fired his pistol rapidly into the campground, killing two elves, but only wounding the leader. As the leader fled, Maluk gave chase and continued to load his pistol for another volley, this time he clipped the poacher in the hand causing him to drop his own pistol.
Suddenly a cloud of choking smoke appeared as if from nowhere, and by the time Maluk fought his way free of it, the Elf Poacher was gone. But he had gained at least a consolation prize... the pistol that had taken him captive. He swore to use it to end the life of the poacher that had taken him from his tribe, and then taken his tribe from him. With both pistols in hand, he trudged onward, on a search he continues on to this day.
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How'd I do? The GM seemed to like it. So I took that as a good sign.
I like it a lot, it's a great back-story and has a lot of flavor to it. It also gives the GM a great hook for you to encounter that elven slaver who took you captive and apparently killed your tribe. Good job taking the suggestions we gave you and making them your own!