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Hi Mark and Mike, My Ranger / Druid Bear Shaman has of course a Bear Animal Companion. He Starts as small for what ever reason the DEVs of Core Rule book made this discision where as Wolves and Big cats start as medium. I was hoping that this would be fixed in hte new animal archive coming out next month but alas that is not to be as the DEV for the Animal archive did not wat to change somthing even though it is broken and said it would have to wait for a reprinting of the core rule book and then it might not even happen. Could you please errata the bear companon to start as medium to make it on par with the wolf and big Cat Please.
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Mike does not control the core rules. If a "DEV" has stated those are the breaks, those are the breaks. Unless Jason, SKR, or SRM make an official FAQ. Those will be the rules that Mike, Mark, and the rest of PFS play by. The most Mike may do is out and out ban it, and only if it's unbalancing to the PFS community.
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Daniel the Dev for the Animal Archive answered a question I asked hiim in the product page for his Product. Both Mark and Mike communeicate with all the DEV's and simply would have to ask them if my question were ok then implemnet it for PFS thus they would not be changing the rules w/o approval from the othe DEV's
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Daniel the Dev for the Animal Archive answered a question I asked hiim in the product page for his Product. Both Mark and Mike communeicate with all the DEV's and simply would have to ask them if my question were ok then implemnet it for PFS thus they would not be changing the rules w/o approval from the othe DEV's
What Brian said, and even when we do deviate it's usually only when there is an official post from Jason, SKR, or SRM, or when there is an official FAQ. Barring that, or jury rigging a class (Gunslinger and alchemist, I'm looking at you) to fit PFS we have a well established precedent of not touching the rules unless it's absolutely necessary.
Though to be perfectly honest if I were a betting man (I learned I wasn't while betting with Mike Brock last weekend), I'd bet Mike Brock would just give you an emphatic, "No.", and if you tried to continue the conversation he'd give you his cop stare that he says he doesn't have. ;)
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I don't see the issue with a medium companion anyway. My wife's Druid is a Bear Shaman, and her companion is a combat beast. I don't see how you could manage a large companion in a dungeon, however. If the choice were mine, I would want to keep it Medium instead of Large unless I was planning to use Mounted Combat shenanigans.
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A bear actually stands to have quite a high strength through mid-levels. It starts with a 15 and increases to 19 when it becomes medium sized; add to that the natural strength/dexterity bonuses and it has a 20 strength at level 4. Compare that to a big cat which will only have a 14 at that moment.
Different companions for different periods. I would stick with a bear at low levels, because that thing will be a monster. It also stays a monster, getting up to a 24 by level 12 with only one of its stat boosts invested (so you can still have your 3 intellect). That means it only has 2 less strength than a lion, and can fit in a lot more areas without any magic required. It would be nice if it got grab, but the bear should certainly not be seen as a worthless choice.
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A bear actually stands to have quite a high strength through mid-levels. It starts with a 15 and increases to 19 when it becomes medium sized; add to that the natural strength/dexterity bonuses and it has a 20 strength at level 4. Compare that to a big cat which will only have a 14 at that moment.
Different companions for different periods. I would stick with a bear at low levels, because that thing will be a monster. It also stays a monster, getting up to a 24 by level 12 with only one of its stat boosts invested (so you can still have your 3 intellect). That means it only has 2 less strength than a lion, and can fit in a lot more areas without any magic required. It would be nice if it got grab, but the bear should certainly not be seen as a worthless choice.
[sarcasm]What? You mean the small bear is actually balanced with a medium sized big cat and wolf?[/sarcasm]
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I know your tongue is firmly embedded in the side of your mouth, but a lot of people write off the smaller companions without giving them a chance. It's not ALL about the lions and the t-rexes.
I suppose it depends on if you are talking to my Nagaji Druid (saurian shaman) as to whether T-Rexes rock!
Interesting note, its the Allosaurus that he has to turn into, because I don't believe you can do Gargantuan until like level 15.
But yeah, I agree, some of the small companions could be quite fun/useful.
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Why is it so hard to get somthing fixed when it so logical that it is broken. Bears are bigger than lions tigers and wolves. Put aside what the stat changes there are for a bear are think what the physological changes between the species are. After one year the bear wouold go from small [cub] the size of a wolf to between medium to large depending on what type of bear it is. Even if a bear has a higher strength which bears do, Big cats get pounce and rake and bears don't get grab. Bears are not balanced IMO compared to Wolves and Big cats I won't compare them to saurians as they are not mamals or fanstay birds like rocs or griffins/huppogriffs. BTW wolves get trip. The Wolves and bugh cats would be balanced if bears stared off as medium and went to large size.
Besides what self respecting Bear Shaman would take a cub adventuring where he knows big animals and other big monsters would be able to kill his freind.
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I know your tongue is firmly embedded in the side of your mouth, but a lot of people write off the smaller companions without giving them a chance. It's not ALL about the lions and the t-rexes.I suppose it depends on if you are talking to my Nagaji Druid (saurian shaman) as to whether T-Rexes rock!
Interesting note, its the Allosaurus that he has to turn into, because I don't believe you can do Gargantuan until like level 15.
But yeah, I agree, some of the small companions could be quite fun/useful.
Actually, I don't believe you'll ever be able to turn into a Gargantuan creature as a Druid. Both Wild Shape and beast shape stop at huge, and I'm not familiar with any other spell or ablility (with the possible exception of polymorph any object) that would allow you to become larger than huge.
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Why is it so hard to get somthing fixed when it so logical that it is broken. Bears are bigger than lions tigers and wolves. Put aside what the stat changes there are for a bear are think what the physological changes between the species are. After one year the bear wouold go from small [cub] the size of a wolf to between medium to large depending on what type of bear it is. Even if a bear has a higher strength which bears do, Big cats get pounce and rake and bears don't get grab. Bears are not balanced IMO compared to Wolves and Big cats I won't compare them to saurians as they are not mamals or fanstay birds like rocs or griffins/huppogriffs. BTW wolves get trip. The Wolves and bugh cats would be balanced if bears stared off as medium and went to large size.
Besides what self respecting Bear Shaman would take a cub adventuring where he knows big animals and other big monsters would be able to kill his freind.
My understanding is that bears were nerfed in Pathfinder because they were highly OP in 3.5. And even as they are, they're not underpowered companions. Being medium isn't a death sentence; indeed, it makes the creature much more versatile than a large companion. Beyond that, they're generally competent creatures; balanced ability scores, high speed, low light vision, scent... They're not exceptional in any one way, but they don't have any glaring weaknesses, either.
If you have so many problems with the bear companion, why didn't you just pick up a domain instead?
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Why is it so hard to get somthing fixed when it so logical that it is broken. Bears are bigger than lions tigers and wolves. Put aside what the stat changes there are for a bear are think what the physological changes between the species are. After one year the bear wouold go from small [cub] the size of a wolf to between medium to large depending on what type of bear it is. Even if a bear has a higher strength which bears do, Big cats get pounce and rake and bears don't get grab. Bears are not balanced IMO compared to Wolves and Big cats I won't compare them to saurians as they are not mamals or fanstay birds like rocs or griffins/huppogriffs. BTW wolves get trip. The Wolves and bugh cats would be balanced if bears stared off as medium and went to large size.
Besides what self respecting Bear Shaman would take a cub adventuring where he knows big animals and other big monsters would be able to kill his freind.
Just because in real life, there are bears who can grow to even Huge Size (Kodiak or Polar), there are plenty of bear species that never get larger than medium.
Additionally, just because the animal companion version of the Bear doesn’t equate to the large and huge bears we are used to in real life (or even are in the Bestiary) does not mean its broken.
The fact that the bear AC was made small in the first place, means that having a medium starting Bear would be broken.
So what you are actually asking the developers to do, is to create a broken AC. That isn’t a fix, that creates a problem.
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I am not asking for a Huge AC. I want bears to start out as medium and in crease to Large. Not Biggier than large. Kodiak and Polar Type bears are Large or Large Long not huge. Some times I think that the DEV's think overly much about game mechanics and not about how things are sized. Why not adjust the bears starting strength 18 for a medium bear and 22 for a large bear that would make a large bears bite 1d8+9 and claws 1d6+6 or 1d6+9 [I am not sure if secondary natural attacks get x1 strength or 1.5 times strength. I am more intrusted in having the bear be the right size as opposed to having the bear have a high strenth and having the bear be an uber killing machine. Besides if you want you bear buddy to have a higher strenth use your buff spells
The reason that I wnat a large bear are two fold I have a real good mini from Rise of the rune lords of a large bear and I found another figure of a mounted dwarf on a bear that I want to get and it would be real cool to have a mounted dwarf in PFS and to to be used as a mount the mount has to be 1 size larger than the rider.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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Hi Lou,
I empathize with your frustration in trying to work within the confines of rules that don't always make it easy to create the kind of character you want. And it is odd that bears are a size smaller than wolves. That said, you aren't going to find a resolution here.
Daniel the Dev for the Animal Archive answered a question I asked hiim in the product page for his Product. Both Mark and Mike communeicate with all the DEV's and simply would have to ask them if my question were ok then implemnet it for PFS thus they would not be changing the rules w/o approval from the othe DEV's
In regards to this, well, here is the response from the developer.
If we were going to make a change to the bear animal companion, we would implement the change into the next printing of the Core Rulebook and make it part of the official errata, so your suggestion would be better pointed toward a thread in the Pathfinder RPG subforum.Patrick Has the Bear animal companion been fixed? As it is now it starts small where a wolf starts aa medium that is just wrong. I hope this has been fixed.
So what Patrick is saying, and what others here have been trying to clear up is that, right or wrong, the ruling is what it is, and it isn't going to be fixed in an FAQ or PFS ruling. If such a change was to occur, it would be monumental enough that it would be errated into the next printing of the core.
So if a change will be made, it's not going to be decided on these boards. And honestly, such a change will likely never be made.
The reason behind that, mechanically speaking, the bear is already a fine AC. It is a shock trooper of a companion, even without getting to a larger size. While this is regrettable for your character concept, it is what it is. Not all concepts are viable within the rules of PFS.
Here are some other ways to make use of your cool minis in PFS play:
- The spell Animal Growth
- The spell Summon Nature's Ally VI, to get a dire bear
- Summoner with the quadruped base for their eidolon, that is modeled to look like a bear
- Stonelord, the paladin archetype for dwarves -- describe your earth elemental as being bear like in form, and at level 11 he'll become large enough that you can ride him. He's not a quadruped, but easily has enough strength to make a viable riding creature.
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Why is it so hard to get somthing fixed when it so logical that it is broken. Bears are bigger than lions tigers and wolves. Put aside what the stat changes there are for a bear are think what the physological changes between the species are. After one year the bear wouold go from small [cub] the size of a wolf to between medium to large depending on what type of bear it is. Even if a bear has a higher strength which bears do, Big cats get pounce and rake and bears don't get grab. Bears are not balanced IMO compared to Wolves and Big cats I won't compare them to saurians as they are not mamals or fanstay birds like rocs or griffins/huppogriffs. BTW wolves get trip. The Wolves and bugh cats would be balanced if bears stared off as medium and went to large size.
Besides what self respecting Bear Shaman would take a cub adventuring where he knows big animals and other big monsters would be able to kill his freind.
I just wanted to mention that on average bears aren't bigger then tigers. Even lions are a bit bigger on average then a average sized bear. The AC seems to represent the smaller varieties of black and brown bears as the larger bears species like Grizzly bears and polar bears have their own separate entry in the bestiary from the black bear which is only medium.
I agree Wolves shouldn't be medium, they should be small.
Now I'd love to have a Grizzly Bear as a AC option, all the devs would have to do is delay the level that it's open for. I'd be willing to wait for 4th level.
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Adam with the WBL it is not feaseable to use Animal Growth as it costs 1100 gp per casting and you cannot cast it once and use permancy as that is not allowed in PFS.
Perhaps a feat could be added to make animal companions Dire animals of thier type spending a feat IMO would be a good idea to increase an Animal companions size w/o unbalancing AC's
Wlater I agree with you about that a change is unlikely to be made but if it is not brought up then I will not happen either.
If this is for PFS then you will just have to go with the existing rules. In order to provide a level playing field for everyone they adhere very strictly to existing rules.
That much being said, if this were for a home game I don't think it is a huge deal to allow your bear to start at Medium sise at level 1 with the same stats. The difference between small and medium is pretty well balanced.
After all, you'd gain:
+1 Improved die type for damage
+1 CMB/CMD
But you would lose:
-1 to hit
-1 to AC
-4 to stealth
I think the kicker is when the bear gets bigger. The bear probably starts at small to make sure that he isn't large at 4th level. If I was going this route as a GM I would allow your bear to start at medium but at 4th level he would not get bigger; he would just get the improved stats.
It's clear that the bear companion is not intended to get to large. So if you really want to ride one take a small character. Like I said there's no need to change that.
Though I am inclined to agree with the OP that it seems very weird that the bear starts as small, since bear cubs only a few months old still get to be big enough to be called medium. They don't remain small for very long.
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Adam with the WBL it is not feaseable to use Animal Growth as it costs 1100 gp per casting and you cannot cast it once and use permancy as that is not allowed in PFS.
Perhaps a feat could be added to make animal companions Dire animals of thier type spending a feat IMO would be a good idea to increase an Animal companions size w/o unbalancing AC's
Wlater I agree with you about that a change is unlikely to be made but if it is not brought up then I will not happen either.
So be a druid with a bear. You can go high strength, and if you're a dwarf you get battleaxe proficiency for free.
I understand you're upset about having to make compromises, but all we're trying to do is help you realize your concept within the scope of PFS rules.
At 9th level, grab Mounted Combat and a rod of extend; cast animal growth and ride around for 20 minutes on a large-sized bear with a phenomenal strength score. That's my best attempt at reproducing your miniature. Walter's summoner/eidolon idea has merit as well.