| 2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Can they be brought back with a "Breath of Life" spell, assuming it's within a round?
Breath of Life excludes "Death Effects" but says nothing about illusions/fear affects so I am guesing it would work but because this spell also heals damage we were thinking it might only work on character "beaten to death" rather than "spelled to death".
Just checking as this may become more and more common in our game.
I guess it depends on your definition of "death effect."
If you think it applies to spells with the [death] descriptor, then it works if they are killed by Phantasmal Killer. If you think it applies to spells that instantly kill you, then no, it won't work.
My guess would be no. Phantasmal Killer doesn't do any HP damage, just kills the person outright. Breath of Life only brings people back to life via the hit points it restores.
You could RAW-lawyer it and say instant death effects bring you to negative con score, and then that Breath of Life will heal you back to even above 0. But this feels like abuse to me and not RAI.
This is exactly the grey area we were in friday. The GM did allow it but we did not run into the question until after the fact.
Maybe we think to much sometimes.
Think too much? Never!
I was scratching my head with this one, too, being tempted to unleash it upon my party ... regarding the phrase, "die from fear."
Dunebugg, you touched on it, as I was uncertain as to how "bad" a death was implied ... down to -1 HP? ... down to -CON HP? ... just DEAD-dead with HPs not even factoring into it?
Based on what Dunebugg said, and the fact that they don't specify, it would seem to be the worst-case scenario for the player ... yowza.
My guess would be no. Phantasmal Killer doesn't do any HP damage, just kills the person outright. Breath of Life only brings people back to life via the hit points it restores.
Case in point: A person reduced to 0 Constitution, for example, via poison, dies. Similarly, a person with negative levels equal to his hit dice dies.
I'm not sure breath of life would restore either of these, despite the fact that they're not death effects.
Death Attacks
In most cases, a death attack allows the victim a Fortitude save to avoid the effect, but if the save fails, the creature takes a large amount of damage, which might cause it to die instantly.
Raise dead doesn't work on someone killed by a death attack or effect.
Death attacks slay instantly. A victim cannot be made stable and thereby kept alive.
In case it matters, a dead character, no matter how he died, has hit points equal to or less than his negative Constitution score.
The spell death ward protects against these attacks.
The subject gains a +4 morale bonus on saves against all death spells and magical death effects.
The target first gets a Will save to recognize the image as unreal. If that save fails, the phantasm touches the subject, and the subject must succeed on a Fortitude save or die from fear.
I think that Phantasmal Killer falls under the "Death Attacks" category. Slays instantly, grants a fort save. Death ward would still provide a +4 on the fort save due to it being a "magical death effect". It is not a [death] spell.
Creatures slain by death effects cannot be saved by breath of life.
I think phantasmal killer is a death attack, but not necessarily a death effect (it lacks the [death] descriptor.). Therefore, breath of life could work, and the victims HP would be at -Con score.
Death spells have the "death" descriptor. If PK has it then is a death effect otherwise it is not.
Death spells have the "death" descriptor. If PK has it then is a death effect otherwise it is not.
I agree with this. PF does not have [Death] descriptior, it is not a death effect.
That said, I think PF does qualify as a "Death Attack" under the Core book glossary.
I think PK ought to be a death effect, but isn't.
Therefore BoL shouldn't work, but will, and Death Ward should provide a +4, but doesn't.
It would take an errata to change that at this point.
I agree. Death effects are called out as such either by descriptor or explicit text. Phantasmal killer has neither. Note that the character might still be dying due to the usual "in case it matters, dead characters have -Con or less hit points" rule.
|
I agree. Death effects are called out as such either by descriptor or explicit text. Phantasmal killer has neither. Note that the character might still be dying due to the usual "in case it matters, dead characters have -Con or less hit points" rule.
After a BoL, the PC would not be dying, but stable, if the hp were to remain below 0, since it is a magical healing effect, so it would stabilize the PC.
So, get targeted by a phantasmal killer, fail not one but two saves, and die from fear. Due to rules, your hit points would be reduced, at this point, to a value equal to your negative Con score, and then an ally casts BoL on you, which would automatically bring you back to life, since it only needs to heal 1 point to bring you above your negative Con score.
Since BoL does 5d8+9 points of healing, at minimum CL of 9, averaging 31.5 points of healing. At 9th level, given standard races and point buys, maximum possible Con score would be, 18 +2 racial, +6 belt, +5 inherent (tome), so 31 or so, and that is for someone pushing Con and above WbL limts, and it would still likely leave the PC conscious, if only barely.
At higher levels, that temporary negative level is going to be a bigger speed bump, given higher additions to the BoL healing done, plus Maximize or Empower. Healing domain, for instance.
Death spells have the "death" descriptor. If PK has it then is a death effect otherwise it is not.I agree with this. PF does not have [Death] descriptior, it is not a death effect.
That said, I think PF does qualify as a "Death Attack" under the Core book glossary.
The rules do say death attack or effect, so I guess something can be one without being the other. It is just not common to do so. That changes my argument from a long ago debate on coup de grace being a death attack if that is the case.
For what its worth, I do consider CDG to be a Death Attack.