Glove of storing: If you want to store something when theres already something in the glove?

[Grayfeather]

RAW says:
On command, one item held in the hand wearing the glove disappears. ...With a snap of the fingers wearing the glove, the item reappears. A glove can only store one item at a time. Storing or retrieving the item is a free action. The item is shrunk down so small within the palm of the glove that it cannot be seen. .. If the glove’s effect is suppressed or dispelled, the stored item appears instantly. A glove of storing uses up the wearer’s entire hands slot. ...

So if say i have a rod in hand and a rod in the glove when I snap my fingers do they swap or does the stored rod appear knocking my held item away or fall to the ground and no return the item in hand to the glove?

[Oladon]

I've asked this before, as well... there doesn't seem to be a RAW answer for it, so it would be up to your GM.

Although, if we can get an official answer, I'm all for it. :)

[Grayfeather]

Oladon wrote:

I've asked this before, as well... there doesn't seem to be a RAW answer for it, so it would be up to your GM.

Although, if we can get an official answer, I'm all for it. :)

If not by RAW I would like to get multiple GM weigh-in on the call then to help my GM lean one way or the other so we can have an understanding its behavior.

[Hopea]

I see three possibilities.

Quote:

If the glove’s effect is suppressed or dispelled, the stored item appears instantly.

Similarly, the old object would be pushed out (if you had enough free hands I'd let you "pick it up" as an immediate/free action).

Option two. The two items are swapped.

Option three. The glove "refuses" to store more items, as it is already full.

[Grayfeather]

Hopea wrote:

I see three possibilities.

Quote:

If the glove’s effect is suppressed or dispelled, the stored item appears instantly.

Similarly, the old object would be pushed out (if you had enough free hands I'd let you "pick it up" as an immediate/free action).

Option two. The two items are swapped.

Option three. The glove "refuses" to store more items, as it is already full.

So I dont think option 1 works because of the these two lines:

"With a snap of the fingers wearing the glove, the item reappears."

Leading one to think the item returns to the position is was in which is stated as "held in the hand".

"The item is shrunk down so small within the palm of the glove that it cannot be seen."

"Palm of the glove" suggested this isn't really in an extra-dimensional space, its just a size/tethering effect. Interestingly enough nothing in the item description even mentions its inside the glove (as in its interior), only that it "disappears". Very odd effect indeed.

I was leaning to the swapping train of thought or that it takes the new item in hand and the other drops to the ground.

[LazarX]

My ruling would be thus:

Nothing happens until the object that's in the glove is brought out.

Main reason: I'm not giving two actions for the price of one.

[SlimGauge]

How do you snap your fingers to activate the glove if you're currently holding something else in that hand ?

[BetaSprite]

My solution:
- Have two hands free
- Put new item into off-hand
- Retrieve old item with a free action
- Free action to swap items in your hands
- Store the new item with a free action

[Grayfeather]

LazarX wrote:

My ruling would be thus:

Nothing happens until the object that's in the glove is brought out.

Main reason: I'm not giving two actions for the price of one.

Its free actions so I can already take an infinite number of free actions in a round, how does this break the action economy?

SlimGauge wrote:

How do you snap your fingers to activate the glove if you're currently holding something else in that hand ?

Please read the item and/or first post:

On command, one item held in the hand wearing the glove disappears

BetaSprite wrote:

My solution:
- Have two hands free
- Put new item into off-hand
- Retrieve old item with a free action
- Free action to swap items in your hands
- Store the new item with a free action

Uggh thats messy metagaming. However that is helpful to argue that if thats legal then item auto-swap is no abuse of the rules.

[Spell Slingin' Steve]

My houseruling on this would be as follows:

You have to snap your fingers for the item to reappear so the hand needs to be free. If you tried to argue "Look i can hold this thing and still snap my fingers" i would say "OK, it reappears. reflex save to avoid dropping it, fail by 5 or more and you drop both items."

Now you are holding 2 things in your hand and you say the command to store one. 50-50 chance the glove chooses either item to store.

BetaSprite wrote:

My solution:

- Have two hands free
- Put new item into off-hand
- Retrieve old item with a free action
- Free action to swap items in your hands
- Store the new item with a free action

Fair solution, however this is bordering on the limit for the reasonable amount of free actions per turn. If you want to retrieve and then store a new item on your turn it will cost you a swift action. However if you want to retrieve and then store the same item (ie. retrieve wand(free), cast spell(std), store wand(free)) that is fine.

[Grayfeather]

Spell Slingin' Steve wrote:

My houseruling on this would be as follows:

You have to snap your fingers for the item to reappear so the hand needs to be free. If you tried to argue "Look i can hold this thing and still snap my fingers" i would say "OK, it reappears. reflex save to avoid dropping it, fail by 5 or more and you drop both items."

Now you are holding 2 things in your hand and you say the command to store one. 50-50 chance the glove chooses either item to store.

BetaSprite wrote:

My solution:

- Have two hands free
- Put new item into off-hand
- Retrieve old item with a free action
- Free action to swap items in your hands
- Store the new item with a free action

Fair solution, however this is bordering on the limit for the reasonable amount of free actions per turn. If you want to retrieve and then store a new item on your turn it will cost you a swift action. However if you want to retrieve and then store the same item (ie. retrieve wand(free), cast spell(std), store wand(free)) that is fine.

Again snapping stores, command word retrieves. Debate is not over can you summon the item to your hand when its full trying a way the item clearly says it does not do. The debate is if the command word is used to summon what happens to the item in hand.

BTW there are no limits to free actions per turn. Zero. The RAW says "Free actions don't take any time at all, though there may be limits to the number of free actions you can perform in a turn.". However it never mentions a free action type with a limit.
If you want to be "reasonable" or "logical" in a game with magic and fairies go ahead and throw out all the RAW. ;)

[Malachi Silverclaw]

Greyfeather wrote:

Again snapping stores, command word retrieves.

It's the other way round: command word stores, snapping retrieves.

The glove can only store one item at a time. Saying the command word is a different thing than snapping your fingers. Therefore, saying the command word does not fulfil the condition to retrieve the stored item, therefore the item is still stored, and since it can only store a single item the new item cannot be stored, therefore the command word does nothing unless the glove is empty.

[SlimGauge]

Grayfeather wrote:

SlimGauge wrote:

How do you snap your fingers to activate the glove if you're currently holding something else in that hand ?

Please read the item and/or first post:

On command, one item held in the hand wearing the glove disappears

I did read it. More than once. Let me be more verbose.

On command, one item held in the hand wearing the glove disappears

That's how you store something.

A glove can only store one item at a time.

It is unspecified exactly what happens if you try to store something via the command word when there is something already in the glove. Usually, attempting something that's not allowed simply fails.

So we can't store an item in the glove if it already contains an item. How do we get the item back ?

With a snap of the fingers wearing the glove, the item reappears

This is the only listed way of getting the item back. I surmise that the finger snap was specified to avoid questions about what happens if you attempt to retrieve an item from the glove into a hand that already had something in it.

Conclusion:

The command word only stores an item in the glove. If there is already an item in the glove, the command word does nothing.

You cannot store an item in the glove if it already contains an item.
Therefore, you must retrieve the item already in the glove before storing another.

To get an item back from a glove of storing requires you to snap your fingers. You cannot snap your fingers while that hand holds another item.

[Spell Slingin' Steve]

Grayfeather wrote:

BTW there are no limits to free actions per turn. Zero. The RAW says "Free actions don't take any time at all, though there may be limits to the number of free actions you can perform in a turn."

Sorry but you just contradicted yourself.

The number of free actions you can perform in a turn is subject to GM interpretation. Mechanically free actions take such little time that most of the time they are insignificant in the way it will interact with other actions. They put that line in there "though there may be limits to the number of free actions you can perform in a turn" to give GMs something RAW to point to when a player starts listing off an unreasonable amount of free actions they are going to perform that turn.
Who gets to decide when the limit of "reasonable" is reached? The GM of course.

I'd think most GMs would see this debate as pretty cut and dry. The rules work exactly as SlimGauge described.