Spell Slingin' Steve's page

44 posts. Alias of Extraordi-Nerd.


I am running this for a group of 4. Last night we just finished the battle with the bbeg and things have taken an interesting turn. I have also come up with something regarding Dusan to make the way out interesting.

In the final battle Iramine never got the chance to use the septer to change into elemental form. She was cut open by a crit for 39 damage a turn before she would have changed. She slumped down against the wall and our party summoner wrenched the septer from her hands, instantly becoming cursed. The party then spent almost an hour trying to decide what to do with the septer. My cursed player RP'd his role wonderfully.

After a while the summoner ( still holding the septer) was drawn to the pedestal. The key to the city started to glow and revealed a golden jeweled helm/crown. All the while he was hearing the whisperings off the staff but not communicating quite everything to the party.

After convincing him to leave the septer behind and flee the city, the party triggered the naga again. At which point the summoner ran back into the back room, grabbed the sepeter and transformed into a huge fire elemental. He beat down the naga and we ended the session.

Now comes a bit more of my own invention. Dusan, who on his previous visit to the city ventured into the pit and became inhabited by a dormant portion of tar baphon (which has allowed him to survive the island and has driven him mad) is subconciously leading a horde of undead into the center of the city. The spirit of tar baphon wills him to claim the septer, crown and key, which will be very bad news for Golarion. The party will run into this encounter on their way out and I'm excited to see what happens.

I usually like to allow the players to buy their own gear. Give them the GM Guide with all the magic items and let them go wild.

But Steve Geddes also have the right of it. It sounds like your group would be better off if you introduced the items slowly. It will make the magic items feel a lot more special to them.

Figure out how much gold each character has, this includes unspent coins and the value of their gear. Then make a list for each character of items you think they would like, the two lists should add up to around 6000 gp. Then over the next few sessions sprinkle these items into the treasure they find.

Tell us what the characters are and we can probably provide some better suggestions.

I tend to like this strategy:

Decide you want to do something "I'm going to try and intimidate that guard"
Roll, add your mods, find out your total. DO NOT find out if you succeed or fail yet.
Roleplay the situation according to how your roll turned out.

- got a 9 on my check. "I walk up and try to pull out my sword, but it sticks in my scabbard, after a couple pulls it comes loose and i glare at the guard"

-got a 17 on my check. "In one swift fluid motion i unsheath my blade, flourish it, and let out a mighty roar towards the guard"

Then the GM can decide how you did, either way you might succeed or fail depending on where he has set the DC or any circumstance modifiers he chooses to add.

in short: roll dice, play it out, see how you did

Yup, here it is.

Divine spells are granted from the gods. You are the GM, you have just decided that this deity can grant Deep Slumber and Remove Curse.

For consistency allow any PCs who gain spells from this deity to also gain these spells.

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My first take on Hawkeye

Hawkeye (Elf)
Wizard 1 (Evocation: Admixture subschool, opposed: Necromancy, Enchantment)
Rogue 9 (sniper)
Arcane Archer 4

Rogue Sniper gives:
Accuracy - half range increments
Sneak attack 70ft +5d6
Improved uncanny dodge
Talents(4): Snipers Eye (sneak attack on concealed, 30ft), Snap Shot (always attack in surprise round), Ledge Walker, Expert Leaper
BAB +6

Wizard gives:
Ability to change Energy type of spells
Familiar: Hawk (mmm flavourful)
Ability to cast 1st level Arcane spells

Arcane Archer gives:
Enhance Arrows: Magic+1 PLUS Flaming OR Frost OR Shock special quality
Imbue Arrow: place an area spell where a shot arrow lands
Seeker Arrow: 1 per day negate cover and concealment
Cast spells as Wizard 4

Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus (Longbow), Weapon Specialization (longbow), Rapid Shot, Many Shot, Point Blank Master

Stats: Str 16, Dex 20 (+2), Con 10 (-2), Int 14 (+2), Wis 14, Cha 10

+5 Toaster wrote:
Spell Slingin' Steve wrote:


Iron Man: Requires some GM flexibility and might be a little imbalanced. I would build Tony Stark as a Wizard(Fire) lots of skills in Craft Weapons and Armor, Craft Construct. And here is where the flex is needed: He builds an Iron Golem that he is able to wear as armor. If i was actually to game with this i would need to make several pages of houserules.

construct armor is already in the rules so no gm fiat there, at least.

Could you point me towards that?

If you use the search you should be able to find an older thread on just this topic. But here is my take on it anyways... First off i wouldn't try and make the Marvel Superhero Avengers. Make Avengers inspired Fantasy Heroes.

I will agree with Gelrond on The Cap. Alchemist/ Master Chymist is also the best fit for Hulk (ragechemist Archtype), i'm not a fan of the bombs for him though.

Hawkeye: Rogue(Sniper)/Wizard(1 level dip)/Arcane Archer

Black Widow: (staying away from guns all together) Rogue(Knife Master)

Iron Man: Requires some GM flexibility and might be a little imbalanced. I would build Tony Stark as a Wizard(Fire) lots of skills in Craft Weapons and Armor, Craft Construct. And here is where the flex is needed: He builds an Iron Golem that he is able to wear as armor. If i was actually to game with this i would need to make several pages of houserules.

Thor: Melee cleric, Domains: Air(Cloud subdomain), Weather. Take the weather channeling effect. Intelligent Hammer Mjolnir

thats my overview... will look into specific builds soon.

Question: Level Cap for the builds? Wealth limit for items needed?

Super sad panda

I really want to back this, but the shipping costs outside of the US are outrageous. I live in America's Hat and I have to pay an additional ~60% of my pledge for shipping?

+$70 on a $120 pledge? whaaaat? +$200 on a $260 pledge? WHAAAAT?

I think the Pathfinder Companion book Blood of Fiends has a bit about Tieflings in Absalom, cant really remeber though.
It will also give you lots of good advice for character building and roleplaying a tiefling. Check to see that the rules content is PFS legal first though! (I don't play PFS so i'm not sure)

I recently gave a 25 pt buy to my players and i had my tiefling player dump CHA. Gave it an 8, with his racial bonus it is a 6.

However he RPs it as such, he understands when everyone he meets instantly dislikes him. He is playing an Inquisitor with the archetype that allows you to use Wis instead of Cha on Diplomacy, Intimidate etc.

It has made for some interesting encounters with supposed "friendlies"

Brass knuckles have a handle that rests in the palm to stabilize and transfer the force of impact to the palm. This would interfere with holding another weapon in that hand.

He can only do one scroll per day normally. He has to prepare the spell in the morning and then he "loses" the spell when he scribes the scroll. (The spells energy is transferred into the scroll and he can no longer cast it that day, except by using the scroll)

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Beginner Box is one of the best intro RPG products I have ever come across.

Separate rule books for Players and GMs. Sample character sheets that explain everything, both premade and blank. Pawns printed on high quality card stock with fantastic art. Pre-made starter adventure and dungeon map that flips over to a generic grid. Dice.

This product is perfect for its target audience, and the value of what you get far exceeds it's price.

As Adelwulf said, there are products out there that will give you what you are after.
You want Tokens? There is always that other fantasy gaming system, but you are getting a superior product with Paizo. (I also cant see how tokens look better, but to each their own).

You can get pawns, maps, plastic minis, adventures, etc. all separately, however the idea here is that it is a BEGINNER box. A bundle to get you started. And with the low price point on this item, yes Paizo is trying to get you to buy more, but i hardly think that is an offense as all their products live up to the same quality.

You can even get the 4 iconics as plastic minis in a pack, though it is out of production so you may need to get it from after-market suppliers.

Also, this is not that other fantasy gaming product, so don't hold your breath for a new edition. (A boon in most eyes!)

And honestly, you cannot give a serious critique of a product you didn't even purchase on the basis of "pawns have a white background"

I will be running this adventure for a 2 person Gestalt party on Sunday.
They are level 3, Elf Rogue/Sorcerer and Tiefling Inquisitor/Cleric (Pharasma), 25-pt buy so they are pretty beefy.

But I am still concerned about this final combat. They are heading out of Galduria right now where the cleric failed to save the head priest of the village from some undead let loose by the Academy. I am considering having the acolyte who was studying under the priest tag along with them.

He can help with some buffs and heals i figure, also he can be the one to be captured by the cultists since he is pretty young and naive still.

This is only going to be our 3rd session, and this is the first game for both of them, so i really want to avoid killing either of them, (especially since, as a cleric of Pharasma, the teifling will not try to get anyone resurrected)

Should i consider allowing them to level up to 4 before they get to town?

Derek Vande Brake wrote:
I would suggest there would be penalties to wisdom, and possibly intelligence, not just dexterity.

Ooo I like that too... Not sure I would decrease Int, if so i would probably scale it to 1/4 of the rate of Dex loss. Booze just dosnet really make you that stupid. Or maybe make it so that if you fail your save you lose 2 Int.

Wis should decrease though, possibly at the same rate as Dex.

I also think there should be a Cha bump.... up to a point. As soon as you fail your save all Cha bonuses you have gained immediately reverse into penalties. And so i present my revised rules:

Drink Effects

#drinks = .5*CON MOD - -1 to Dex & Wis, +1 to CHA
#drinks = CON MOD - -2 to Dex & Wis, +2 to CHA
#drinks = 1.5*CON MOD - -3 to Dex & Wis, +3 to CHA
#drinks = 2*CON MOD - -4 to Dex & Wis, +4 to CHA
#drinks = 2.5*CON MOD - -5 to Dex & Wis, +5 to CHA
#drinks = 3*CON MOD - -6 to Dex & Wis, +6 to CHA
#drinks = 3.5*CON MOD - -7 to Dex & Wis, +7 to CHA
#drinks = 4*CON MOD - -8 to Dex & Wis, +8 to CHA
#drinks = 4.5*CON MOD - -9 to Dex & Wis, +9 to CHA
#drinks = 5*CON MOD - -10 to Dex & Wis, +10 to CHA

Saving Throws, DC = 5+#drinks

First Save at (2+2*CON MOD) drinks. DC = 5+(2+2*CON MOD)
Repeat save for every drink there after.
Failed Save by 5 or more, Pass Out.
Failed Save by less than 5, become nauseated for 1hour per # of drinks over max. If already nauseated become sickened. If already sickened, throw up, remain sickened. Additionally all CHA Bonuses reverse into Penalties, additional drinks bestow CHA penalties instead of bonuses.

Successful Save by 10 or more, regain CHA Bonuses if you have CHA penalties due to drinking.
Successful Save by 5 or more, remove Nauseated or Sickened condition.
Successful save by less than 5, if Sickened become Nauseated, if Nauseated remove the condition.

Also, every hour since having your first drink, reduce your #drinks total by 1. (may want to adjust this for the metabolism of different races)

I am a little confused by your wording but i think i puzzled it out. When you say "(each ale=+1 to Con save)" you mean "Increase the save DC by +1"

I am going to try and clear things up with the language. There is a "Con Modifier" a "Con Score" and there is a "Fort Save Bonus" there is no "Con Save"

So say we have a Con Score of 18, that is a +4 Con Bonus, and suppose with other modifiers the Fort Save Bonus is +7.
Then, by the addiction rules this character can drink 9(1+ 2*4) drinks before becoming sickened.

I like your idea though, because the number of drinks seems a little low and I like randomness. I would go something like this.
At 1+2*CON MOD you are safe, every drink after that you have to make a Fort save, DC = 5 + # of drinks consumed.
(if very strong alcohol DC = 2*#drinks consumed)
Fail by 5 or more, pass out.
Fail by less than 5, become nauseated for 1hour per # of drinks over max. If already nauseated become sickened. If already sickened, throw up.
(Note that sickened gives them a -2 on all checks and saves.)

I also like drinking games where there is some sort of skill contest involved. To accurately represent this i would adjust their Dex score and i would scale it like this:
#drinks = .5*CON MOD - -1 to Dex Score
#drinks = CON MOD - -2 to Dex Score
#drinks = 1.5*CON MOD - -3 to Dex Score
#drinks = 2*CON MOD - -4 to Dex Score
#drinks = 2.5*CON MOD - -5 to Dex Score
#drinks = 3*CON MOD - -6 to Dex Score
#drinks = 3.5*CON MOD - -7 to Dex Score
#drinks = 4*CON MOD - -8 to Dex Score
#drinks = 4.5*CON MOD - -9 to Dex Score
#drinks = 5*CON MOD - -10 to Dex Score
And so on,
You can then use Ranged attack checks, Acrobatics, Reflex saves or simple Dex checks to simulate a game.

So in our 18 Con example we have
9 drinks is -4 to dex
10 drinks is -5 to dex and make a Fort Save DC 15 (DC20 if Strong alcohol)
...assuming he makes all his saves...
16 drinks is -8 to dex and make a Fort Save DC 21 (DC38 if Strong Alcohol)

Additionally using any kind of magical bonus in these sort of games constitutes cheating.

I don't really have a problem with the population ratios of the core races. Seems to me like if you are the kind of person to leave your home and venture into a society that is strange and alien to you, then you would be much more likely to become an adventurer.
You are clearly well suited to adventure if you are going to leave your homeland, more so if you are leaving your isolated community.

So if you are in a city that is 85% human 15% other and your party is 25% human 75% other, well that kind of makes sense since those "others" in the town are exceptional members of their race and more likely to be adventuring than 75% of the humans in the city.

Well I thought I would post an update for anyone interested. We did character creation 2 weeks ago and we have our first session tomorrow.

Ended up going with 25pt buy, gestalt, 3rd level. I have an Elf Sorcerer/Rogue and a Tiefling Inquisitor/Cleric of Pharasma. Standard build gold for 3rd level (3000 each).

They are starting off in Magnimar under the assumption they know each other and have been working together for a couple of months. Mercenary for hire, guard duty, detective, and a little bit of working trades in the market. They have rented out a small, kind of run down store front just outside of the slums. A place to sleep, meet with clients and store their loot.

I didnt end up giving them apprentices yet but i might still do that.

Tomorrow is going to be an introduction to the city. The slumlord will send someone by for his rent, the cleric will have some interaction with the clergy of his church. I'm trying to instill a hatred for undead into the cleric, he will likely be sent by the church to investigate reports of undead in one of the cities cemeteries. They are going to witness a theft in the bazar, hopefully thwart it and get noticed by a magnimar clerk who needs help. She is a tax official who needs help collecting from one of the local businesses. If they are successful she will send them to ravenmoor.

I picked up the Magnimar: City of Monuments book so i will let them run around the city a little bit and explore if they want to, have them find the stone carved map of the city and tell me where they want to go.

All going well by the end of this session i will have them hooked for Ravenmoor, and get enough experience to put them well on their way to 4th level before the final encounter of that module.

That's awesome! Glad to hear it all worked out for you.

Keep us posted on how things go!

Hey Shadow, I ran the BB adventure for a group and the end fight is kind of disappointing. My suggestion would be to get rid of the dragon entirely, replace it with some other beast. Manticore maybe, perhaps the dragon is working with the manticore and flies away when the party arrives. "deal with this trash, i have no time for this" This would give you the hook for the party to hunt down the dragon.

Dragons are truly epic beasts, fighting a dragon at first level feels kind of cheap. Dragons are not only powerful but also smart and could easily dispose of a group of level 1s.

I also feel like you wouldnt have to hunt down the parent dragon if you killed its child. It would find you and raze whatever town you are currently occupying.

The talisman does seem a little over powered for a level 1 party, but that should be fine for you goals. Just make it work on Magical Creatures. remember Detect Magic does not tell you what an item does, only the type of magical aura. They have to make a Spellcraft check to determine properties. Maybe a little Knowledge (Arcana) will have someone remember hearing about a set of these talismans that effect different creature types. They can track down the Dragon talisman before going to fight the Dragon.

The Goblin King scene was tough for me too, my party just rushed ahead swords drawn. My suggestion is to try and humanize the goblins, they are emotional little creatures, maybe the king is really broken up and sulking, crying even. Have the others start groveling at the party's feet, begging for help for their king. You just need something to diffuse the "kill it first and then ask if we should have killed it" attitude that comes from playing video games with infinite retries.

As for getting them to the island, have them make a perception check to notice something glimmer across the water. Or maybe they find a cryptic note left by the mage. And if they cast detect magic for long enough they should pick up on the aura of the talisman.

Good luck!!

I just see HP as one of the many resources the party must manage. I don't see the CLWW being a big problem. as everyone has said, it is a big money sink, and only heals an average of 4.5 hp per 6 seconds. And if its not on your spell list you cant use it without a UMD check.

You guys wanna buy wands? sure, no new shinys for you. Also the monsters are getting harder and you are starting to take more damage, buy more wands? sure but you aren't decreasing damage taken, just wasting your gold on consumables.

The world is living, its not waiting for you. If you take too long trying to heal up you might just get bushwhacked by the patrols.

Another thing, I agree with the idea that divine magic shouldn't be made into wands, think i just found myself a new house rule. Scrolls and potions yes, but wands just seem a little too mundane to be channeling the power of a god.

That would increase the availability of CLWW. How many Bards really take Craft Wand, few i'm thinking? How common are witches? They are generally outcast due to their strange magic.

The once per day ruling also gets kinda sticky here due to the ambiguous nature of a spellcaster's "day"

Does the pearl regain its power when you have had 8 hours of rest and re-prepped your spells? In that case if it was longer than a day before you got to re-prep you wouldn't have use of your pearl again until you had done so.

I would probably rule that it functions like other magic items and refreshes 24hrs after being used.

That's another interesting thing to consider, when do your 1/day items become usable again? 24 hour cool down or everything refreshes at 12:01 am?

RedDogMT wrote:

This means that when the sorcerer hits 4th level, he won't get a second level spell. He will have to wait until 5th. This occurs every time the character gains a new spell level.

Remember though that you would still get your bonus spell from high CHA (if you have it).

Normal you get 1 spell, plus your bonus
Now you get 0 spells, plus your bonus

("0 spells" is not the same as "- spells")

ShadowSketch wrote:
Bearded Ben wrote:
It's either one or the other. Usually you can't exclude your allies from the channel (I'm not sure if the Beginner Box includes the feat that lets you do that.)
So say the PC's are fighting some bandits, and they've all taken some damage. If the cleric channels her energy for healing, do the bandits get healed as well, since it doesn't specify "friendly" or "allied" living creatures? And, if by a freak turn of events, one of the PC's or their allies becomes undead, would the harm undead channel injure them too?

If you choose to heal, it heals all living within the area, friend or foe. If you choose to damage it damages all undead in the area, friend or foe. There is a feat called "Selective Channel" that allows you to choose your targets, but I am unsure if this is in the Box rules.

ShadowSketch wrote:
Bearded Ben wrote:
Power attack isn't an action at all, it's an option you can use when you attack.
Therefore it functions exactly like a regular attack, except that it gets +3 damage for -1 attack bonus?


ShadowSketch wrote:
Bearded Ben wrote:
Stowing a carried weapon is, IIRC, it's own move action, but the fighter could drop it as a free action.
Okay, so if a character wanted to switch weapons completely they have to take a full round doing so, or drop their previous weapon to the ground to retain a standard move. On that note, can a standard action be swapped for a move action?

You can take an extra move action in place of a standard action. But you cannot take an extra standard action in place of a move action.

So drop weapon for free, draw new weapon as a move (You can also move one square as a "5-foot step" as part of this), and then attack as your standard action.

Globetrotter wrote:

That's is the point. You guys are talking about interactions in a square and this thread is taking about distance between two squares.

Actually we are talking about the distance between two entities (characters, creatures, objects etc) that are IN two different squares.


O is an EMPTY square

Trikk wrote:

This effectively means that a large creature that is standing somewhere in a 3x3 grid, completely surrounded by enemies fighting him, can never be in melee combat to avoid getting shot without penalty. In fact, anyone being attacked with or attacking with reach is never in melee combat.

That, to me, is completely absurd and only works if you count people standing adjacent to you (i.e. at minimal distance from you) as standing 5' away, which is the consequence of interpreting 10' away as standing with one square between you.

First off, a Large creature stands in a 2x2 grid, and if he is surrounded by characters with reach weapons then technically he is not engaged in melee for the purposes of "Firing into Melee".

As you say, "In fact, anyone being attacked with or attacking with reach is never in melee combat." For the purposes of "Firing into Melee".

And actually I interpreted 1 square between is 10' away as a consequence of the rules that adjacent=5' away

Grayfeather wrote:
BTW there are no limits to free actions per turn. Zero. The RAW says "Free actions don't take any time at all, though there may be limits to the number of free actions you can perform in a turn."

Sorry but you just contradicted yourself.

The number of free actions you can perform in a turn is subject to GM interpretation. Mechanically free actions take such little time that most of the time they are insignificant in the way it will interact with other actions. They put that line in there "though there may be limits to the number of free actions you can perform in a turn" to give GMs something RAW to point to when a player starts listing off an unreasonable amount of free actions they are going to perform that turn.
Who gets to decide when the limit of "reasonable" is reached? The GM of course.

I'd think most GMs would see this debate as pretty cut and dry. The rules work exactly as SlimGauge described.

As people have said before, a medium character does not take up an entire 5 foot square. Think about it, if i was taking up a 5 foot diameter area i would be almost as wide as i am tall. You are assumed to be in the center and you can shift around in that 5' square allowing you to reach into the adjacent squares. Think of it as planting one foot and taking a single step into your swing.

So two adjacent medium creatures at the least 0 feet apart (grappled) but strictly less than 10 feet apart. Since this is a game and we are approximating combat we average it out and call it 5 feet apart.

By the same argument you get the average of 10 feet apart when there is one square in between. Applying this logic to the RAW gives you the ruling that you do not take a penalty when creatures are not adjacent. Even if they threaten via reach weapons.

@MurphysParadox, where in the rules does it say to assume everything is a 5ft cube of flesh? Do we not have rules for cramming multiple creatures into a square? if everything was a 5ft flesh cube would this not be impossible?

@Trikk, party with all reach weapons is a completely valid tactic. your archers would never have to worry about the penalty as long as you can keep the enemy at bay. However most reach weapons are pretty useless once the enemy closes the gap so there is your cost-benefit trade off. Also, if the language was always consistent in the rules we would eliminate more than half of these type of threads. That is simply not the case however.

My houseruling on this would be as follows:

You have to snap your fingers for the item to reappear so the hand needs to be free. If you tried to argue "Look i can hold this thing and still snap my fingers" i would say "OK, it reappears. reflex save to avoid dropping it, fail by 5 or more and you drop both items."

Now you are holding 2 things in your hand and you say the command to store one. 50-50 chance the glove chooses either item to store.

BetaSprite wrote:

My solution:

- Have two hands free
- Put new item into off-hand
- Retrieve old item with a free action
- Free action to swap items in your hands
- Store the new item with a free action

Fair solution, however this is bordering on the limit for the reasonable amount of free actions per turn. If you want to retrieve and then store a new item on your turn it will cost you a swift action. However if you want to retrieve and then store the same item (ie. retrieve wand(free), cast spell(std), store wand(free)) that is fine.

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Abilities and Spellcasters wrote:
The ability that governs bonus spells depends on what type of spellcaster your character is: Intelligence for wizards; Wisdom for clerics, druids, and rangers; and Charisma for bards, paladins, and sorcerers. In addition to having a high ability score, a spellcaster must be of a high enough class level to be able to cast spells of a given spell level.

He only gets the additional spell slots if he could cast spells of that level. So if he is 4th level with say 16 CHA then he gets an additional 1st and 2nd level spell slot to use per day. But since he cannot yet cast 3rd level spells he dosent get an additional spell slot at that level.

Note that these "bonus spells" do not let him learn a bonus spell, it just gives him additional casts of the spells he knows.

It is also kind of confusing to talk about spell slots for a sorcerer. They have a set number of spells they can cast per day. At 4th level (with high CHA) he can cast his 1 known 2nd level spell 4 times per day, and some combination of his 3 known 1st level spells 7 times. Or, any of his 4 times available for 2nd level spells could be used instead for a 1st level spell.

Buri wrote:

I've never actually set the words themselves. I just meta-sum it up by saying I know and if someone asks what it is then I "tell" them.

I had a feeling most people used command words in this way.

Kolokotroni wrote:

I tend to use greek for arcane spells, and latin for divine spells.

I really like that, the latin seems very appropriate to divine spells, though that is due to western culture. I like the Ancient Greek too since it would have that same antiquated feel, but still distinct from latin. (though i don't know how distinct as I am no linguist)

I know a fair amount of French, might start using that for command words. Maybe objects that have come from different regions use different languages for commands.

Command words seem to be one of the more ambiguous topics in the rules and I am looking to get a perspective on what other people like to use and how they rule command words.

When a character creates an item they can set the command word to anything they like. But what about found/purchased items? How do you like to come up with command words for Items? Do you have a favorite (real-world) language that you like to mine? Do you just like to use common words or phrases? Do you use some sort of online generator for fantasy words? Do you just hand wave it, assuming the character knows the command once taught?

What about verbal components for spells? It would be needlessly tedious to come up with words for each spell, but sometimes you might want some arcane words for dramatic effect rather than saying "the BBEG recites some words, make a spellcraft/arcana check, you do/don't recognize them." Does anyone ever do this?

Gathering materials for my new Rainbow Gnomeskin Cloak

I see it like this: Regeneration happens once a round, on the creature's turn. If the creature takes any fire damage at all it must spend its next turn "healing the burn" before it is able to heal any damage whether it is fire damage or otherwise.

Here is how i read it, RAW:

Paralyzed and winged: fall immediately.

Stunned/dazed and either: nothing immediately. On your turn you can take no actions, so you cannot move 1/2 speed. You must make a DC15 fly check to remain hovering at the end of your turn since you did not move. you can do this because:

fly wrote:
Action: None. A Fly check doesn't require an action; it is made as part of another action or as a reaction to a situation.

This is where i see the difference between "can take no action" and "cannot move or act." Since you cannot take an action to move you must "react" and make a hover check. Keep in mind, paralyzed and stunned reduce your dex and make this check harder.

Paralyzed and Magical: fall on your turn. since you cannot "move or act" you cannot even "react" and make the hover check.

Here is where it gets tricky because by RAW there is no explicit consequence to failing a check listed in the Flying Maneuver table when you are using magic. Hover being one of those.

If you are winged and fail by 5 or more you plummet, but it does not say anything for magic, nor does it say what happens if you fail by less than 5.

I am seeing some holes in the fly rules.

Thanks again everyone for your input. I'm meeting with my players over the weekend to sure up some of the details. For sure the rogue is in to stay but if i can sell them on gestalt hopefully he will take a caster.

Going to let them hire lower level mercenary help. No rich lady friend buy it yourself. For equal level help they will have to negotiate division of loot or some other form of deal. But they will probably get enough gold for a 3-4 person party as Exocrat suggested.

Going to give them the option for a squire/protege for free and a free upgrade to Leadership at 7th.

I'm not running an AP, just some modules im going to link together with my own content. Ive reread them again to try and identify pitfalls for a 2 man and ways i could introduce a npc to help them.

Does anyone know of resources for adjudicating running their business?

Thanks Shimesen, this is one of the things I will be trying however the goal is for this role to be filled by multiple NPCs depending on the mission/situation. They will likely grow attached to certain NPCs but they will quickly learn never to depend on an NPC. Character development is going to focus on the player's characters, my npcs take a back seat.

I am depending on the pally's character to come up with a good motivation for himself that we can grow on, as i mentioned he is a writer and will be able to concoct something.

The rogue's business plans should provide me with lots of hooks, and he is planning on lining up his goals with what ever the pally is doing in order to leverage the paladin's status. The Paladin in turn will see the rogue's business ventures as a good thing since a portion of the profits are donated to his church.

I like the idea of lots of low level play to form a bond... however, at our heart the three of us are gamers and there is nothing more satisfying than getting stronger so you can beat up bigger and badder things. I'll be sticking to the standard gold and xp advancement track i think.

Thanks for all the advice guys. I'll address a couple of things.

3rd players isnt going to happen for the time being, we will start with 2 and maybe add a 3rd when we have gotten the campaign rolling.

25pt buy is in, thanks KatoCha04.

I have confidence the pally isn't going to be lawful stupid. He is a bright guy and a writer, wants to develop his character.

A DMPC won't be happening, I want the focus to be on the players. At most i will go with Mazlith's suggestion. Many, many NPCs, maybe they can recruit them on occasion, but they are not to become full on party members.

I am liking more and more the gestalt option (especially since i can build a gestalt BBEG). Ive read the rules for gestalts and was worried it would be too much for my players. I will have to check with them, they might prefer to stick to one class.

I will have to see about how the paladin feels about a squire... might give it to him as a bonus feat. I Do have a question about the feat... It says "is always at least three or more levels lower than yourself" but it starts at level 1 when you are level 3. Might do something similar for the rogue, give him a Protege. If i do give these as bonus feats i will require them to spend a feat for full Leadership.


You attract a protege to aid you in your roguely endeavors.
Prerequisite: Rogue/Bard level 3rd*, Cha 13.

Benefit: This feat acts similarly to the Leadership feat, with several exceptions. You can only attract a 1st-level cohort (referred to hereafter as a protege) with this feat, and cannot recruit followers until you have the Leadership feat. You determine your Leadership score according to the rules presented in the Leadership feat, but your protege is always at least three or more levels lower than yourself.

A protege can only take levels in either rogue or bard, which ever class you are. She cannot multiclass, though she may take any archetype she qualifies for.

If a protege gains enough XP to bring her to two levels lower than your level, the squire does not gain the new level until you gain your next level—until then her new XP total is 1 less than the amount needed to attain the next level and she gains no additional XP until you advance.

If your protege leaves your service, you may gain a new one by scouting for potential candidates in a city or large town. which requires at least 24 hours of uninterrupted scouting. This act can also replace a protege who has perished.

Graduation: When you reach 7th level, this feat automatically upgrades to the Leadership feat (meaning that you effectively lose this feat and replace it with Leadership).

Graduation Benefits: You gain all the normal benefits of the Leadership feat, except that your protege must remain at least three levels lower than you and must continue to take levels in her first class. In order to remove this restriction your protege must be at least 4th level, and you must witness her as she singlehandedly defeats a foe with Hit Dice equal to or greater than her own (or perform some other extraordinary roguish deed). Protege graduates to partner and acts as a normal cohort; she may begin taking levels in other classes if she so chooses, and she may increase in level to up to two levels lower than yourself.

Hopefully with the addition of the cohorts/gestalts we will be just fine. I'm considering revising the starting location to Magnimar straight away so i can send them off to Ravenmoor after some in-town interactions and maybe a few odd-jobs around town.

Hello and thanks for taking the time to read this. I am starting a game in the new year with only 2 PCs, I will be GM. The three of us are all fairly new to the game, only a few sessions actual play experience, though I have read a whole lot.

I was wondering if anyone has any tips or things to look out for when running a 2 PC party. Should i really be looking hard to add another player or will it work out ok? Can I use modules with 2 people or will it require alot of adjustments? (I currently own the 3rd level Feast of Ravenmoor and 5th level City of Golden Death) Are there any APs suitable for a party of 2? I am really leaning against running a GMPC, but I might let them hire help from time to time.
Background info that I have so far:
20pt buy High Fantasy, standard advancement.
PCs will be a Rogue (CG or NG) and a Paladin.
I was planning on starting them at level 3 to avoid the super squishy first levels and account for there only being 2 of them.
This is a Golarion game, and they will be starting in Sandpoint since that is the city i am most familiar with.
The rogue player wants to start some sort of business in game with the paladin as his business partner (a la Acquisitions Incorporated).
I haven't had a chance to sit down with the pally to discuss his deity or code yet. I'm going to nudge him towards the oaths I think as i feel like that kind of provides a framework to build your code around and it gives me a starting point for adventure hooks.
Is the lack of a magic user a real problem or can it be sufficiently mitigated by the rogue having a really good UMD?

Any ideas for how and why i can bring a paladin and a rogue together? I don't want the rogue to constantly sneak around doing his unlawful (but not evil) things so that the paladin dosen't have to imprison him. Greater good argument as long as the rogue is not hurting anyone?

I'm thinking that some urban adventuring would work nicely for 2 players, any suggestions? Magnimar is a likely destination, it provides lots of "evil" for the paladin to oppose and a underground market for the rogue to play in.

Any other suggestions you guys might have are also appreciated. Thanks!

Bill Lumberg wrote:

By your reasoning Carrot-top exists in the Golarion universe. That's depressing.

Jackpot, I didn't know this was the "How to piss off your players" thread.

Exciting! How many players will you have at the table.

I ran Black Fang for a party of 5 and it took us about 2 hours.

I would recommend having some RP time in Sandpoint before heading out to the dungeon. Talk to the barkeep, the mayor, the sheriff. Drop some info about rumors of increased goblin activity around the dungeon site. play up the reports of mauled animals, make the villagers seem really fearful and in need of help.

You could even send the party off to investigate a report of a mauled creature. Have a farmer walk into the bar looking terrified. He can explain how his farm was attacked last night, a creature swooping down in the darkness, snatching up his animals and destroying anything it touched. The party can go out to investigate, maybe the farmer left some important heirloom while fleeing his farm. The PCs can retrieve it and discover on of Black Fang's iconic black fangs. You can even throw in an encounter with come scavenging wolves and/or goblins.

Bring this info back Belor and he can send you out to the dungeon, increased goblin activity and sightings of a large black creature tipping off the location.

Also check out the Beginner Box Bash Demo scenarios, these are small 1 hour scenarios that you could slot in to extend the session a little bit without much prep.

By the way, make sure the dragon gets away, and hopefully injures one party member pretty badly. Killing a dragon at level 1 is kinda anti-climactic, but turning him into a recurring villain will motivate the characters.

Took a quick look at the GMG

GMG wrote:
Base Value and Purchase Limit: This section lists the community's base value for available magic items in gp. There is a 75% chance that any item of this value or lower can be found for sale in the community with little effort. If an item is not available, a new check to determine if the item has become available can be made in 1 week. A settlement's purchase limit is the most money a shop in the settlement can spend to purchase any single item from the PCs. If the PCs wish to sell an item worth more than a settlement's purchase limit, they'll either need to settle for a lower price, travel to a larger city, or (with the GM's permission) search for a specific buyer in the city with deeper pockets. A settlement's type sets its purchase limit.

So by this i would say that you were in the wrong here.

A village can offer any one item costing up to 500 gp (75% chance of them having it). As long as a single component is less than 500gp roll a d4, on a 1 it is not available, on 2-4 the shop has it.
The Purchase limit for a Village is 2,500 this applies to the PCs SELLING items, but I could also see it being an acceptable baseline for total value of items available.
You can also look at it this way, Village Base 500gp, 2d4 minor items 1d4 medium items. That is 7.5 items avg. at max 500gp, so that is 3750 gp available on average. Use something like this to determine how much they can spend in any one village.
Or roll your 3d4 and if the total is less than the total number of components the player gets most of it but is missing some key components.

It dosent seem like it was your intention to nerf his item creation and it was just a misinterpretation of the rules.

You have 2 options at this point, as the GM you have final say, if they dont like it they can leave. However this does not seem to be your attitude or style, good.

Talk to the player, explain you have reviewed the rules and that you were wrong. Be willing to apologize and work with them next session.
I wouldn't go back and over turn your rulings, don't give them the items they feel they should have gotten, but maybe give them a little extra leeway in a future situation to compensate.
You should also explain to them that any rulings you make at the table are final and arguments at the table are unacceptable. But that you are willing to review any rules that they may call into question, but ONLY after or between sessions.

I made Captain America as a 11 Shielded Fighter / 1 Monk
+2 Ricochet Heavy Adamantine Shield with Bashing (30000)
He uses the shield and unarmed strikes as his weapons.
I took the dip in monk for better unarmed strikes and good class skills.

I played around with a pally build and cavalier but it just didnt feel right. Cap cant cast spells or channel energy and he has no supernatural abilities, and he doesn't ride a horse. He is strong, agile, good at close combat and has a shield that wont quit.
The only thing i feel like I'm missing is some battle field control.

Going to put the build in a spoiler if you want to see it.

Captain America:

Captain America
Human Male
LG Medium
11 Shielded Fighter / 1 Monk
Init +7;
(Init: +3 dex, +4 feat)

AC 29, touch 15, flat-footed 24 (+7 armor, +5 dex, +6 Shield, +1 deflection)
HP 119 (11d10, 1d8, +48 con, +11 fc)
Fort +14, Ref +10, Will +6 (+3 vs fear)

Spd 30 ft
Melee: Shield Bash +21/+16/+11 (1d8 +9, +Bull Rush [+1d8 vital strike])
Unarmed Strike +19/+14/+9 (1d6 +7)
Vital Bash/Punch/Bash/Bash +19/+17/+14/+9 (2d8+9/1d6+7/1d8+9/1d8+9)
Flurry of Blows +17/+17/+12/+7 (1d6 +7)

Ranged: Shield Throw +19/+14/+9 (1d4 +8) (10ft)
Ricochets to hit upto 3 people, must be within 10ft of eachother, returns to hand at start of next turn

Str 21, Dex 20, Con 18, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 14
(25 pt buy, +4 belt of physical might)
BAB +11/+6/+1, CMB +15 CMD 37

Fighter: Weapon Training 1 (Close), Active Defense +3 AC when defending,
Shield Fighter +2 bash att/dmg, Shield Buffet (move action, CMB check to give enemy -2 Attack/AC)
Monk: Flurry of Blows, Stunning Fist (3/day, DC 17), Unarmed Strike (1d6)

Fighter: Shield Focus, Greater Shield Focus (+2 Shield AC),
Imp. Shield Bash (Keep AC Bonus), Missle Shield (Block 1 projectile),
Sheild Slam (free bull rush with bash), Sheild Master (add enchancement bonus to attack/dmg)
Monk: Combat Reflexes, Imp. Unarmed Strike (bonus)
Human: Point Blank Shot (+1 att/dmg ranged)
Regular: Heavy Shield Specialization (add shield bonus to CMD), Two Weapon Fighting,
Intimidating Prowess, Endurance, Imp. Initiative,
Vital Strike, (+1 dmg dice for highest BAB attack)

Skills:[50 ranks] Perception[10] +14, Profession (soldier)[5] +10,
Acrobatics[7] +14, Intimidate[11] +20, Diplomacy[11] +17, Climb[6] +13

Languages: Common

Favored Class: Fighter
Favored Class Bonuses
+11 HP

Traits: World Traveller (+1 Diplo, class skill), Veteran (+1 Prof(Soldier), Class skill)

+3 Mithral Scale Mail (+7 AC, -1 ACP, +5 max dex) (13400)
(The lightweight scale mail that makes up the Cap's armor)
Belt of Physical Might +4 (40000)
(to represent the enhancements to his physical body)
Amulet of Mighty Fists +2 (20000)
(devastating punches)
Ring of Protection +1 (2000)
+2 Ricochet Heavy Vibrainium(Adamantine) Shield, Returning, Bashing, (+4 AC) (30,000)
(The Shield requires some leniency in the rules)

Coin: 2600 gp
Total Weight:

Jeraa wrote:
Lobolusk wrote:
how do I make a Shovel Masterwork?
A masterwork tool costs 50gp, according to the core rulebook, and that should apply to shovels. However, that won't work. It would be a masterwork tool, not a masterwork weapon.

Houserule! Assuming non-PFS game.

So a +1 Zombie Bane Shovel would cost 50(mwk tool)+8000(+2 enhancement price).

I don't think it should get the +300 for a mwk weapon since it is not a weapon. It is an improvised weapon at best and the wielder would still take the penalties associated with using an improvised weapon. (mitigate with feats)

You might need some skill in Craft(Tools) and spellcraft, and i'd say you still need Craft Magic Arms and Armor since you are adding weapon enhancements. But with the precedent noted by Jeraa Craft Wonderous might be the way to go.

I have a character in mind that will be using lots of rods, scrolls and wands and I am trying to figure out the most efficient way of storing all of these items while having the easiest access to them all.

Handy Haversack: More storage space than needed. Retrieve any item is a move action, does not provoke AoO. Is there any way to quicken this time?

Efficient Quiver: Could the argument be made that wands/rods are about the same size and shape as an arrow? If so there is space for 60. Scrolls perhaps fit in the javelin pocket for 18 scrolls? Drawing one is as drawing from a quiver or scabbard, does this mean the Quick Draw feat could apply?

Glove of Storing: Could be nice for that wand that you are going to need over and over. A little confused on the wording "Takes up the whole hands slot." Does you can only wear ONE glove of storing (not allowed one on other hand) and you can't wear other gloves or gauntlets. OR does this actually mean you cant hold anything else in that hand while something it stored.

Is there anything else I am overlooking as a must-have storage item?