Tadeus |
Hi guys,
One of my players, who is playing a sorcerer has some questions which I'm not sure how to answer.
1. "I have 2 lvl-2 and 0 lvl-1 spells left for the day. Can I just cast any lvl 1 spell I know by using a lvl-2 slot?"
The rules say:
"These openings for daily spells are called spell slots. A spellcaster always has the option to fill a higher-level spell slot with a lower-level spell"
This seems like it's written more for wizards and not for sorcerers, cause the second ones don't really "fill slots".
But also:
"Sorcerers and bards cast arcane spells, but they do not use spellbooks or prepare spells."
So, the sorcerer doesn't prepare spells, so he cannot "fill" a slot. But can he just cast it without preparing it? Or does this imply he has no way to fill a higher level slot with a lower level spell cause he cannot decide what he wants to put in what slot?
And the second question:
2. "I'm lvl 4 and can only cast 2nd lvl spells. But I also get some bonus higher level slots from my high charisma. I know I cannot put higher level spells in these slots right now, but can I fill those higher level bonus slots with lower level spells?"
Here I'm almost sure he can't but I'm looking for in the rules.
ZZTRaider |
1) Yes, you can always burn a higher level spell slot for a lower level spell. There's just no benefit to doing so, unless you're using Heighten metamagic as well. A Fireball cast from a 9th level spell slot is still a 3rd level spell. (If it were Heightened to 9th level, it would be an actual 9th level spell for Save DCs and any other effects based on spell level.)
2) From d20pfsrd's page on Ability Scores, with the table for bonus spells: "In addition to having a high ability score, a spellcaster must be of a high enough class level to be able to cast spells of a given spell level."
Slacker2010 |
He cant use his bonus spells recieved from high charisma bonus until he can cast spells of that level.
Look at the Paladin, at 4th level he gets a 0 for 1st level spells. But if his Charisma was high enough he could cast them. You need some number in that level to be able to access the extra spells.
Spell Slingin' Steve |
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The ability that governs bonus spells depends on what type of spellcaster your character is: Intelligence for wizards; Wisdom for clerics, druids, and rangers; and Charisma for bards, paladins, and sorcerers. In addition to having a high ability score, a spellcaster must be of a high enough class level to be able to cast spells of a given spell level.
He only gets the additional spell slots if he could cast spells of that level. So if he is 4th level with say 16 CHA then he gets an additional 1st and 2nd level spell slot to use per day. But since he cannot yet cast 3rd level spells he dosent get an additional spell slot at that level.
Note that these "bonus spells" do not let him learn a bonus spell, it just gives him additional casts of the spells he knows.It is also kind of confusing to talk about spell slots for a sorcerer. They have a set number of spells they can cast per day. At 4th level (with high CHA) he can cast his 1 known 2nd level spell 4 times per day, and some combination of his 3 known 1st level spells 7 times. Or, any of his 4 times available for 2nd level spells could be used instead for a 1st level spell.
Tadeus |
He doesn't want to CAST the spell of this level. He wants to use it to cast a lower level spell he can cast at his level.
He wants to use the 3rd level spell slot to cast a 2nd level spell. It's not forbidden by the rules. Only 3rd level spells are forbidden.
The question is: Do you get your bonus spell slots even if you cannot cast spells of that level yet?
There is no answer to this question in the rules. It only says you cannot cast 3rd level spells as long as you don't reach character level 5. Thats something completely different.
Slacker2010 |
He wants to use the 3rd level spell slot to cast a 2nd level spell. It's not forbidden by the rules. Only 3rd level spells are forbidden.
I think the problem here is you are thinking that he slots are different from the spells. They use the reference "slot" to so you can see the difference with Spells "known" and "the resource". For a sorcerer, he can use a 3rd level spell to instead cast a 2nd level spell.
Maybe the wording is a carry over from 3.5, I would have to go home and check the wording in my 3rd edition players hand book. Needless to say, he cant use his 3rd level spells (or slots) until 6th level. If your the DM, then you don't need to justify it or you can hand wave it and let him do it. Its your game so it would be your call. You are not the DM, you can point him to the message boards and he can start a thread.
Googleshng |
He doesn't want to CAST the spell of this level. He wants to use it to cast a lower level spell he can cast at his level.
He wants to use the 3rd level spell slot to cast a 2nd level spell. It's not forbidden by the rules. Only 3rd level spells are forbidden.
The question is: Do you get your bonus spell slots even if you cannot cast spells of that level yet?
There is no answer to this question in the rules. It only says you cannot cast 3rd level spells as long as you don't reach character level 5. Thats something completely different.
Short answer, no, you flat out don't get your bonus spells until you're the appropriate level.