Did I break my druid?


Advice


Yesterday I took part in another session of our now long running Kingmaker campaign. We are starting book 5 and are only 9th-level, which is a few levels lower than we should be.

I don't know if this encounter was actually part of the campaign path; certainly the monsters weren't. (The DM applied the half dragon template to some lycanthropes, and ouch. So much burning.)

Our party consisted of (on that day) a magus, a paladin who uses a lucerne hammer and has ridiculously powerful charge attacks (reach weapon) plus Smite Evil, a witch, an overpowered barbarian/alchemist, and me, a druid (bear shaman). My druid PC generally uses Wild Shape to turn into a Huge bear and does good damage. He has low Wisdom though. Having just reached 9th-level, I was excited at the prospect of casting Animal Growth on my animal companion (I only have 1 5th-level spell) and finally matching the barbarian's damage numbers. That didn't happen.

We had met with some guys from Mivon, and while we were trying to impress them and so forth, a group of five draconic lycanthropes dropped on us. (The DM didn't tell us what they were at first, and there were at least three different types.) At the last minute the DM removed a few monsters, for fear he'd TPK us. That's why there was only numerical parity.

They started combat by breathing fire on us while we were all clumped up. They didn't clump up as much, but unfortunately formed a line...

I intended to summon an elemental with Summon Nature's Ally V (I have Augment Summoning). It would form a whirlwind, and then I'd cast Call Lightning, which would do extra damage due to the whirlwind. Except I looked at the elemental's whirlwind. With Augment Summoning (the whirlwind save DC is based on Strength, and AS boosts the elemental's Strength) the whirlwind DC was 20.

So the elemental turned into a whirlwind and then swept across the battlefield, literally attacking all five creatures. (Even with one move action allotted to it, 100 feet is a lot, the whirlwind form doesn't draw AoOs, and it could simply move through their squares.) I forget exactly who got damaged, but the damage was minimal. Instead, three of the creatures got swept up and carried away.

Despite their saving throws (Reflex, so pretty poor, they only got extra saves because half-dragons can fly) they were being moved 100 feet per move action (so twice that each round after the first), essentially erasing them from the combat. One instantly died, because the barbarian had almost blended it down to about 3 hit points before the elemental sucked it up. Thus, blood was sprayed on the PCs, monsters, and our allies elsewhere on the battlefield.

Now of course there's nothing preventing the monsters, who dealt a lot of damage, from simply ripping the elemental apart from the inside, but it occurred to me after the battle that the elemental might be able to "run" in flight (flying 400 feet per round) or even fly straight up, the exact amount being a little confusing (can it only move up at half speed, and if so, that's still 100 feet per round), which would make killing it no better than not... and all they did was kill a summon.

On another note, the barbarian did far more damage than my druid did, still. It didn't help that the remaining creatures had decent DR, which even magic-augmented attacks don't cut through. (I think anyway. The druid had a +2 amulet of natural armor, using the very new pricing rules.)

So I'm wondering, did I make any rules errors there? Could this combo be nastier? Should my druid give up wildshaping, and from now on just focus on summoning as many air elementals as possible? We're taking on Armag's barbarians next session (we failed to kill him!), but I have serious doubts about his own effectiveness. The elemental could in theory whirlwind him four times (since the whirlwind lasts four rounds), and Armag could fail three saves, get sucked up the fourth time, then taken skyward and dropped somewhere. Of course, the earlier he gets sucked up, the worse it'll be for him. (Of course, he's probably capable of killing the elemental in one turn. He's lucky I can only summon one!)

Large Air Elemental
N Large outsider (air, elemental, extraplanar)
Init +11; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +11
DEFENSE

AC 21, touch 17, flat-footed 13 (+7 Dex, +1 dodge, +4 natural, –1 size)
hp 84 (8d10+40)
Fort +11, Ref +13, Will +2
Defensive Abilities air mastery; DR 5/—; Immune elemental traits
OFFENSE

Speed fly 100 ft. (perfect)
Melee 2 slams +14 (1d8+6)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
Special Attacks whirlwind (DC 20, 10–40 ft.)
STATISTICS

Str 22, Dex 25, Con 20, Int 6, Wis 11, Cha 11
Base Atk +8, CMB +15; CMD 33
Feats Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Flyby Attack, Improved Initiative, Mobility, Weapon Finesse
Skills Acrobatics +15, Escape Artist +15, Fly +21, Knowledge (planes) +5, Perception +11, Stealth +11
Languages Auran
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Air Mastery (Ex)
Airborne creatures take a –1 penalty on attack and damage rolls against an air elemental.

Whirlwind (Su)
Some creatures can transform themselves into whirlwinds and remain in that form for up to 1 round for every 2 HD they have. If the creature has a fly speed, it can continue to fly at that same speed while in whirlwind form; otherwise it gains a fly speed equal to its base land speed (average maneuverability) while in whirlwind form.

The whirlwind is always 5 feet wide at its base, but its height and width at the top vary from creature to creature (minimum 10 feet high). A whirlwind’s width at its peak is always equal to half its height. The creature controls the exact height, but it must be at least 10 feet high.

The whirlwind form does not provoke attacks of opportunity, even if the creature enters the space another creature occupies. Another creature might be caught in the whirlwind if it touches or enters the whirlwind, or if the whirlwind moves into or through the creature’s space. A creature in whirlwind form cannot make its normal attacks and does not threaten the area around it.

A creature that comes in contact with the whirlwind must succeed at a Reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 the monster’s HD + the monster’s Strength modifier; 20 in this case) or take damage as if it were hit by the whirlwind creature’s slam attack. It must also succeed on a second Reflex save or be picked up bodily and held suspended in the powerful winds, automatically taking the indicated damage each round. A creature that can fly is allowed a Reflex save each round on its turn to escape the whirlwind. The creature still takes damage that round but can leave if the save is successful.

Creatures trapped in the whirlwind cannot move except to go where the whirlwind carries them or to escape the whirlwind. Trapped creatures can otherwise act normally, but must succeed at a concentration check (DC 15 + spell level) to cast a spell. Creatures caught in the whirlwind take a –4 penalty to Dexterity and a –2 penalty on attack rolls. The whirlwind can have only as many creatures trapped inside at one time as will fit inside the whirlwind’s volume. As a free action, the whirlwind can eject any carried creatures whenever it wishes, depositing them in its space.

If the whirlwind’s base touches the ground, it creates a swirling cloud of debris. This cloud is centered on the creature and has a diameter equal to half the whirlwind’s height. The cloud obscures all vision, including darkvision, beyond 5 feet. Creatures 5 feet away have concealment, while those farther away have total concealment. Those caught in the cloud of debris must succeed on a concentration check (DC 15 + spell level) to cast a spell.

This air elemental has Augment Summoning, boosting some stats.


You can also turn yourself into an air elemental. Its a good way to deal with encounters with large numbers of enemies.


That sounds like a great strategy to use against enemies with low reflex saves.

Shadow Lodge

Pretty sure that's legit (except I'm not sure that a flying creature can run - a creature using the Fly spell certainly can't).


Quote:
Instead, three of the creatures got swept up and carried away. [...]On another note, the barbarian did far more damage than my druid did, still.

Are you kidding me? You essentially removed 3 (three, THREE) foes from battle while he was dealing with 1 (one, ONE) foe.

It's not always about OMFG-so-high-FF-numbers-on-the-screen. From what you did, you did your job very well. Battle field control proved to be (again) very effective in this encounter.

I do not see wildshaping and summoning as contradictory but rather complementing each other. You can summon creature(s) to deal damage, block squares (again: battlefield control!), help flanking etc. and then you bring your AC and yourself to the table; with having taken Natural spell (you did, right?), you can wildshape and still cast spells.

So much versatility here! And the barbarian does what? Damage - that's his shtick, that's (the only thing) what he is good at; and he should be.

You played the druid just fine, IMO.

Ruyan.

PS: Sorry, if this comes around as a rant, it wasn't meant to be (I'd rather like to think about it as a prep talk).

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32

I'm with RuyanVe on this one, for a Doodad and 'Zard the main role should always be battlefield control. Let the barb revel in his ability to output damage, a win for him is making something go splat a win for you is keeping the team alive but foiling the baddies from from doing their thing.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
RuyanVe wrote:
And the barbarian does what? Damage - that's his shtick, that's (the only thing) what he is good at.

BARBARIAN RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE, PUT LANCE THROUGH FACE.

...

WAIT. BARBARIAN SENSE TRAP.


AM BARBARIAN wrote:
RuyanVe wrote:
And the barbarian does what? Damage - that's his shtick, that's (the only thing) what he is good at.

BARBARIAN RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE, PUT LANCE THROUGH FACE.

...

WAIT. BARBARIAN SENSE TRAP.

Priceless...

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32

A barbarian with a lance, say it ain't so...


Look up the thread about AM BARBARIAN going ragelancepounce on his giant bat and blanch at the damage output.

Besides: any word from the OP?

Ruyan.

Sovereign Court

So can you "Run" in other flying forms than the Fly spell? For example with the Elemental Body spell?

Also, can you actually melee-attack creatures in whirlwind-shape?


I don't know if you can run while flying, but apparently not. Also, can an air elemental fly upward at the same speed as it flies horizontally?

The air elemental in whirlwind shape cannot attack, except by swirling.

Incidentally, it's better to summon an elemental than do it yourself as a druid. My druid is actually one level short of being able to turn into a Large air elemental (bear shaman delays non-bear wildshaping), but an elemental is disposable, while the druid is not, and an elemental is vulnerable to attacks from whatever it is swirling. (My druid would rather turn into an earth elemental in any event.)

RuyanVe wrote:
Are you kidding me? You essentially removed 3 (three, THREE) foes from battle while he was dealing with 1 (one, ONE) foe.

The DM wasn't the only one looking stunned at the table. So was I.

Since we failed to kill Armag, I think the next time we see him, the witch will hex his saving throws and I'll swirly him with the elemental.

Armag was so badass he did more damage than our barbarian last time (KOing him), so trading hits with him would be suicidal.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Did I break my druid? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Advice