Intelligent Items and Caster Levels

[Sarf]

So, after using our healthy search function I have been unable to locate a definitive answer on this. I would like to craft an intelligent item. As far as I can tell, they aren't that expensive. However, there is no explanation behind caster level of spells intelligent items can cast at. Lets say I want to craft a weapon that can cast Mage Armor as a 20th level caster (Increasing the duration to 20 hours).

According to the intelligent item rules, It would cost 1200 gp to cast a 1st level spell 3 times per day.

300 Masterwork cost
2000 +1 enhancement cost
500 base cost for intelligent item
200 to increase casting stat to 11
1200 to cast Mage Armor 3/day

Total Cost - 4200

This however states that the spell is cast at the caster level of the item. How to determine this is unexplained. Numerous people have stated you use the minimum caster level required to create the item. For items such as bracers of armor, ring of prot, etc. this makes sense. However if I'm using a weapon, shield or armor this tends to get a little hazy. Minimum caster level to craft a +1 Magic Sword would be caster level 3rd (5th for the feat, but crafted at 3rd). If I make this a +2 sword at a later time, does this improve the caster level of the weapon to 6th?

In addition to this since a +5 enhancement bonus on a weapon is the maximum, does this mean it is impossible to make an intelligent weapon cast at anything above 15th level?

As well along these lines is there anyway to improve the caster level without improving the enhancement bonus of the weapon. For example a +1 sword that can cast 20th level mage armor.

Thanks in advance, I apologize if this was already gone over, but unfortunately search failed me, and thusly I need you, the great community, to come to my aid.

EDIT - By my calculation to apply a Command Word enhancement to it would cost 7200 gp. This would allow me to use my own action to cast a 1st level spell as a 20th level caster, once per day. If I did it this way would this allow the intelligent item to cast all it's spells at 20th level? In addition, would the magic item be able to use it's own actions to active the command word, as it does get it's own actions per round?

As well if I added an additional command word enhancement to this item like invisibility would I be forced to pay the cost as though it was added by a 20th level creator, even if I only needed it to cast at say 6th level? By my count casting it at 20th level would increase the cost to 14400 whereas adding it at 6th level caster would only make it about 1/3rd of that. Thanks as well for my random edits!

[Nightskies]

I want this answered.

Also.

Does an intelligent item actually need the mental stat to match spells it has, or does it simply use the item's spell like one uses a horn of fog? In other words, if an intelligent item has cure light wounds set into it, does it need CHA or WIS at 11?

[Nightskies]

And another question. Can an intelligent item have more abilities added to it, like more spells?

And if so, does the mental stat need to be high enough to match?

And if so, can the mental stats be upgraded?

[VRMH]

Sarf wrote:

300 Masterwork cost

2000 +1 enhancement cost
500 base cost for intelligent item
200 to increase casting stat to 11
1200 to cast Mage Armor 3/day

Total Cost - 4200

Not quite. You missed the costs of the base weapon - say 15gp for a Longsword. And there's no need to increase the Intelligence to 11, since per the rules an Intelligent Item can always use its own powers.

Quote:

If I make this a +2 sword at a later time, does this improve the caster level of the weapon to 6th?

Probably. The rules are hazy, so just go with whatever makes sense to you.

Quote:

In addition to this since a +5 enhancement bonus on a weapon is the maximum, does this mean it is impossible to make an intelligent weapon cast at anything above 15th level?

No, you could simply create items at a CL higher than their minimum. Even a regular +5 weapon can be made at CL 20 - it just wouldn't serve much of a purpose.

Quote:

As well along these lines is there anyway to improve the caster level without improving the enhancement bonus of the weapon. For example a +1 sword that can cast 20th level mage armor.

That should work just fine, but the CL doesn't influence the +5 part in any meaningful way.

Quote:

EDIT - By my calculation to apply a Command Word enhancement to it would cost 7200 gp. This would allow me to use my own action to cast a 1st level spell as a 20th level caster, once per day. If I did it this way would this allow the intelligent item to cast all it's spells at 20th level?

Yes. There is no evidence that I know of suggesting Intelligent Items can have more than one CL. Everything runs off the same Caster Level.

Quote:

In addition, would the magic item be able to use it's own actions to active the command word, as it does get it's own actions per round?

Yes. Intelligent Items can always activate their own powers. It would make sense to require the sword to have a voice and actually speak the Command Word too, but that isn't spelled out in the rules.

Quote:

As well if I added an additional command word enhancement to this item like invisibility would I be forced to pay the cost as though it was added by a 20th level creator, even if I only needed it to cast at say 6th level?

I believe so: one CL per Intelligent Item. And besides: do you really want a situation where your sword has to make a handful of separate Caster Level checks in response to an attack, and then figure out what happens?

[VRMH]

Nightskies wrote:

Does an intelligent item actually need the mental stat to match spells it has

No.

Nightskies wrote:

Can an intelligent item have more abilities added to it, like more spells?

Yes.

Quote:

And if so, does the mental stat need to be high enough to match?

No.

Quote:

can the mental stats be upgraded?

Yes.

In Pathfinder's precursor, 3.5e D&D, the stats were significant in that there were minimum requirements for certain powers. Not so in Pathfinder, where the mental abilities of an Intelligent Item are largely irrelevant.

[Tiny Coffee Golem]

Dot

[Nightskies]

I would like to see the sources used to come to these rulings, so that I can refer them later and remember them. Not merely the link to the intelligent item rules, but what parts of it or other rules that come to the conclusions.

[Nightskies]

Link for intelligent items in the hope someone can come up with the answers where I can only guess RAI like VRMH, most of which I'm in agreement with.

If I'm not mistaken, questions that have answers only in 3.5 material is considered acceptable for Pathfinder, emphasis that only when Pathfinder rules don't answer it. They're not, however, RAW answers.