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It's legal. It's found in Chapter 1 and:
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate EquipmentAll items from Chapter 1 are legal for play except as noted below. Some rules elements are legal but function differently in Pathfinder Society Organized Play, as described here.
Equipment: No Large or larger firearm is available for purchase. The double hackbut, culverin and any advanced firearms on Table 1–10 are not permitted in Pathfinder Society Organized Play. No character may purchase a firearm unless she possesses the Gunsmithing feat and firearms are never considered Always Available; a character must possess enough Fame to purchase any firearm not found on a Chronicle sheet or granted by a class feature. All ammunition except metal cartridges may be purchased.
Special Materials: All special materials, except angel skin and living steel, are legal for play.
It's the older versions of the scorpion whip that aren't legal anymore, I believe. The weapon has changed 3-4 times.
Venture-Agent, California—San Francisco
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By RAW from UE, it is either a light exotic performance weapon that does lethal damage but without the reach, trip, and disarm of the whip, or "you can use a scorpion whip as a whip."
This last statement needs clarification. Many people are wielding scorpion whips as light lethal reach weapons with the trip and disarm properties, and that is not explicitly supported in the rulebooks.
From my understanding it is a light exotic performance weapon that does lethal damage but without the reach, trip, and disarm of the whip. However, if you are proficient with a whip it also gains disarm, reach, and trip.
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It has two 'modes' you can use it as.
1st 5ft reach, threatens, Lethal damage, and performance(not relevant for pfs)
2nd 15ft reach, does not threaten, non lethal damage, trip, and disarm.
The 2nd 'mode' is only available if you are proficient with whips.
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That's not what's written in UE.It has two 'modes' you can use it as.
1st 5ft reach, threatens, Lethal damage, and performance(not relevant for pfs)
2nd 15ft reach, does not threaten, non lethal damage, trip, and disarm.The 2nd 'mode' is only available if you are proficient with whips.
In the spirit of Christmas I will be nice.
It is not what UE says because anyone can easily look up what it says in UE. I am breaking down how the whip will work in combat so people can go to their table knowing how to use their weapon.
UE says:
SCORPION WHIP
PRICE 5 GP
TYPE exotic
This whip has a series of razor-sharp blades and fangs inset along its tip. It deals lethal damage, even to creatures with armor bonuses. If you are proficient with whips, you can use a scorpion whip as a whip.
Light, One-Handed, and Two-Handed Melee Weapons
This designation is a measure of how much effort it takes to wield a weapon in combat. It indicates whether a melee weapon, when wielded by a character of the weapon's size category, is considered a light weapon, a one-handed weapon, or a two-handed weapon.
So when a scorpion whip is wielded as a whip does it also change from being a light weapon to a one-handed weapon to reflect a greater difficulty in wielding a disarming, tripping reach weapon?
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PS: Scorpion whips and armored kilts make my head hurt.
Learnt nothing from the Brass Knuckles farago. Nothing.
(Thanks for the link)
And now to ruin that link -- since he's "just" the creative director his word isn't law. You may find people that argue against his rulings.
Such is life :(
why cant you get the whip mastery chain?
What archetype? straight bard?
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If you're proficient, you can use it as a whip. So ... it's a whip with a chance of dealing lethal damage with it, albeit at close range.
A big setback for bards who specialize in scorpion whips. Rebuilds?
Is that before or after the rebuild for whip wielders who have been affected by the recent addition that whips, like rapiers, don't do 1.5 Str damage when wielded two-handed?
Sorry, had a PC who, just as he reached the point he could use his whip for AoOs, and therefore go for wielding his whip two-handed, instead of wielding whip and dagger, got hit by the whip change in UE.
And he is a Lore Warden, so, yes, he IS trained in Knowledge (History).
Although it IS amusing during games when my Fighter is rolling Knowledge skills every time they come up...
well if you made some off choices already, why worry about discordant voice? whip away my friend, whip away!
It's the older versions of the scorpion whip that aren't legal anymore, I believe.
Source?
Pathfinder Player Companion: Adventurer's Armory
Only the 2nd printing of this book or the 1st printing augmented by the current errata (released 7/21/11) are legal for play in Pathfinder Society Organized Play.
Everything in this book is legal for play with the following exceptions: a pseudodragon is not legal for purchase unless you're a wizard with the Improved Familiar feat, elephants are never legal for play, and armored kilts are not legal.
The errata doesn't change the scorpion whip, so isn't it still legal? Even if the (broken confusing) new version is supposed to be an update, UE isn't core assumption, so if a player has the Adventurer's Armory, I don't see why it wouldn't be allowed.
For anyone interested in an official response on how the new UE scorpion whip works, there's a FAQ request thread here.
By that same logic I should be able to use the old version of brass knuckles with a monk, if I didn't own or bring a copy of UE.
Well, yeah. The brass knuckles from APG are legal, and SKR isn't campaign leadership so his board posting about fist-type weapons doesn't apply.
Without a FAQ, errata, or campaign leadership post, we're required to run the item as written, and APG Brass Knuckles still says monks can use their unarmed damage with them.
The easiest way for PFS to fix this, I think, would be to append the additional resources and say that any item with the same name that was changed in a more recent book is the correct version to use. This gets into the problems with people being required to use books they don't own (and aren't on the PRD) but the alternative is the leadership making exhaustive posts to agree with the developers on every minor issue. (Or just leaving it be since it probably doesn't really matter)
In otherwords, it doesn't work that way.
That's not helpful without explaining your reasoning. I've explained mine, now it's your turn. If there's a campaign leadership post about the issue I've missed, I'd like to see it, as I'd rather the games be run as intended.
And while we have a clear statement of intent with the knuckles (not supposed to work as written) we don't have a clear intent of the whip. We know how the old one works, but we don't know if the new one was really supposed to change all that, or if it was just badly written, because the only feedback we have to go on are contradictory posts by James (here and here).
I'd feel a lot more comfortable crippling someone's character if I knew that's actually how the developers wanted it. But I still doubt the intent was to completely remove the reach/disarm/trip weapon abilities and turn the weapon into a dagger that inexplicably shares proficiency with a whip.
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@Jiggy:
That Monks don't do unarmed damage via Brass Knuckles.
Well, some things will have table variation. For instance, PFS GMs are supposed to run things "by the book", but also use good judgment. If the book says X but a designer has made it very clear that it should be Y instead, then some GMs will go each way.
Personally, I run all glove-style weapons the way Sean K Reynolds says they're supposed to work: no relation to unarmed strikes at all; they're just light weapons like any other. But other GMs might do differently, and I'd respect their position. I might (away from the table) make them aware of SKR's clarification in case that affects their practices, but I wouldn't push it either.
Glove weapons are a mess, and each GM must choose their own method of working within that mess, and players must accept that different GMs will deal with that mess differently.
If you want less ambiguity, play a fighter. ;)
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You've been told that what, specifically, isn't the case?Wait, what... I've been told several times at conventions this isn't the case.
I am so confuse.
I believe he's referring to the statement that non campaign leadership clarification posts are not considered rules for PFS.
For James Jacobs, I'd agree.
But if a Developer clarifies how something should be used, then I'd say it should apply for PFS.
"But I'm using the beta version of the summoner, who can still have summons from the SLA and the eidolon out at the same time!"
I wouldn't consider this a valid argument even if there wasn't the text saying the playtest versions couldn't be used. Same situation as brass knuckles.
"But I'm using the beta version of the summoner, who can still have summons from the SLA and the eidolon out at the same time!"
I wouldn't consider this a valid argument even if there wasn't the text saying the playtest versions couldn't be used. Same situation as brass knuckles.
You're saying the assumption is that the Additional Resources page doesn't require that you use the most recent edition of the resource (or older version coupled with complete errata)?
Because otherwise, your point doesn't really make sense, since the playtest document wouldn't be a valid additional resource, unlike the APG.
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Y'know, I was going to get a scorpion whip for my shiny new magus character, but after looking at this debacle, I'm just going to use a whip and a scimitar for closer range, and suck up the non lethality until I can get whip mastery.
Seriously. NO-ONE know what they do. It's a mystery to everyone.