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For those planning to shoot a lot per turn, such as the two-gun pistoleros, misfires are a problem. If we got to level 13, we'd be fine, but that's just out of reach for PFS. Best solution I've found looks like the slate spider, but it only lasts for 1 minute per day. At 10k for the bug, that's a hefty chunk of change. (And weight. How does a statue small enough to crawl inside a gun barrel weigh a full pound?)
Would people recomend just buying multiple spiders, and swapping them out for each fight?
Reliable drops the odds of misfire a bit, and lucky lets you re-roll a misfire. Wand of stabilize powder will fix what's currently in the gun, but that's only good for your first shot or two. Any other ways to deal with misfires?
Heck, what I need is something like Sash of the War Champion or Bane Baldric, that worked on Pistol Training instead.
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In my experience, gunslingers just take the Quick Clear deed and handle it that way:
Quick Clear (Ex): At 1st level, as a standard action, the gunslinger can remove the broken condition from a single firearm she is currently wielding, as long as that condition was gained by a firearm misfire. The gunslinger must have at least 1 grit point to perform this deed. Alternatively, if the gunslinger spends 1 grit point to perform this deed, she can perform quick clear as a move-equivalent action instead of a standard action.
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Standard actions are pretty slow when you're throwing down 8 shots per round. And grit is a pretty rare commodity.Their has to be a disadvantage to the class. If you want to fire those 8 shots you have to take the chance your gun will explode on you.
I have yet to see any disadvantages of the class. After level 2 every gunslinger seems to treat the broken condition as a non-issue.
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Standard actions are pretty slow when you're throwing down 8 shots per round.
Can someone explain to me how this works? A lot of people have said that TWF pistoleros can get a ton of shots off. Sure you can get reloads down to a free action but I can't see how you can get past this line:
Loading a Firearm: You need at least one hand free to load one-handed and two-handed firearms.
You can use TWF (not ITWF or GTWF) and just drop one pistol after a single shot, but you're still looking at only 6 shots at level 11.
Main Hand (1)Off Hand (2)
Main Hand Haste (3)
Main Hand Rapid Shot (4)
Main Hand Iterative -5 (5)
Main Hand Iterative -10 (6)
Mind you, this is still a ton of (touch) attacks but for my money I'd take one less shot, have a +4 to hit on all my shots, save a feat, and save the cost of a second weapon.
There's a few items like the beneficial bandolier that can "do tricks" but don't actually help much when you start figuring out action sequences. Until and unless the Pistol of the Infinite Sky becomes legal (and you save up 147,000 gp) there's really no way to effectively TWF with pistols.
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Double Barrel Pistol. Each time you shoot with it, you can shoot twice at -4 to each.
The reloading issue is bypassed in interesting ways by dipping into alchemist or witch, or in lame ways with weapon cords.
I'm not sure yet how far down this road I'll go. I'll probably just stick to a double-barrel in one hand and the starter pistol in the other. I will not be using a double shot every time I could though, as the -4 is a pain. I might also switch the starter for a dragonpistol.
Hadn't planned on haste, but was looking at Improved TWF, so actions could get up to: (bonus calc includes dex 24, point blank +1, & deadly aim -3)
off hand (1) at +11
main hand a (2) at +7
main hand b (3) at +7
main hand a rapid (4) at +7
main hand b rapid (5) at +7
off hand iterative (6) at +6
main hand a iterative -5 (7) at +2
main hand b iterative -5 (8) at +2
main hand a iterative -10 (9) at -3
main hand b iterative -10 (10) at -3
Haste would give you another double shot at +7, a double-pistol in the other hand would be another two shots total but -4 on that hand now, so at 11 levels of gunslinger, you could have 14 shots in the air.
But, those 14 shots would cost at least 69.3 gold(after society discounts), and the tail end you're probably not hitting anything.
I hadn't intended to debate the merits of TWF here, was just seeing if people thought the spider was an efficient way of mitigating misfires compared to other methods out there.
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Double Barrel Pistol. Each time you shoot with it, you can shoot twice at -4 to each.
The reloading issue is bypassed in interesting ways by dipping into alchemist or witch, or in lame ways with weapon cords.
I'm not sure yet how far down this road I'll go. I'll probably just stick to a double-barrel in one hand and the starter pistol in the other. I will not be using a double shot every time I could though, as the -4 is a pain. I might also switch the starter for a dragonpistol.
Touch AC tends to drop as you level, so taking ridiculus penalties still makes you hit many enemies on a 2. This is how sorcs and wizards land so many scorching rays, and they're using a secondary stat and half bab.
I still see no downside to the class. You even have d10 hp. Yeah it's 3 or so gp a shot, but 1 charge of a level 1 wand is 15 gp. And wizards are happy spamming a mm wand all day long for the 1d4+1 damage. How much damage does a gunslinger do again? ;)
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I have a Mysterious Stranger double-barrel pistol build and getting Stranger's Luck is where this archetype shines in this type of situation. Using rapid shot + rapid reload + alchemical cartridges to fire 6 shots from a double-barrel pistol normally nets you a whopping 62% chance of getting a misfire during one of those shots, which ends the shooting spree immediately and prevents you from doing it again the next round. A Mysterious Stranger with a high charisma can ignore that.
As far as the spider goes, the rules are unclear on exactly how it works with a double barrel led weapon so expect table variant headaches.
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I prefer to go the way my musket master goes. I infuse alchemical effects into the bullets, and use things like Deadly Shot, and other bonuses like vital strike (in coming levels) rather than filling the air with lots of expensive lead.
Admittedly I'm worried about my gunslinger/alchemist build will do at higher levels but for now I do pretty good.
My only regret is that I can't combine explosive missile with a 2 handed guns since it would make things like tanglefoot bombs and other effects more useful than infusing alchemical weapons like alchemist fire into them.
Had I gone with a pistol based gunslinger/alchemist (grenadier) I could be a much more terrifying dps guy thann I am.
Contributor
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I prefer to go the way my musket master goes. I infuse alchemical effects into the bullets, and use things like Deadly Shot, and other bonuses like vital strike (in coming levels) rather than filling the air with lots of expensive lead.
Admittedly I'm worried about my gunslinger/alchemist build will do at higher levels but for now I do pretty good.
My only regret is that I can't combine explosive missile with a 2 handed guns since it would make things like tanglefoot bombs and other effects more useful than infusing alchemical weapons like alchemist fire into them.
Had I gone with a pistol based gunslinger/alchemist (grenadier) I could be a much more terrifying dps guy thann I am.
Why not take one-handed firearms as a feat and give yourself more options? (musket for distance shooting, explosive bomb pistol for up close / other)
By the strict letter of the rules, you can have Pistolero and Musket Master at the same time.
I strongly suspect this is due to a typo on the part of the Pistolero, though, so I would not expect this loophole to be there for long.
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Why not take one-handed firearms as a feat and give yourself more options? (musket for distance shooting, explosive bomb pistol for up close / other)I prefer to go the way my musket master goes. I infuse alchemical effects into the bullets, and use things like Deadly Shot, and other bonuses like vital strike (in coming levels) rather than filling the air with lots of expensive lead.
Admittedly I'm worried about my gunslinger/alchemist build will do at higher levels but for now I do pretty good.
My only regret is that I can't combine explosive missile with a 2 handed guns since it would make things like tanglefoot bombs and other effects more useful than infusing alchemical weapons like alchemist fire into them.
Had I gone with a pistol based gunslinger/alchemist (grenadier) I could be a much more terrifying dps guy thann I am.
I did. I just feel that it wouldn't be a 'game breaker' to do it with my musket. Most of the gunslinger cheese actions are with pistol builds but the only clear nerf of this type is put on the 2-hand weapons. Yes, I do d12 and have a touch range of 40-50 ft or up to 90 with a grit point but what sort of dips could a human gunslinger/grenadier do @ 6th level around a pistol build compared to my typical 1 shot & move (or free action with paper carts) that I am doing now?
I keep a MW Pepperbox for close in work (and spent the feat for the rest of the guns).
There are a few things I'd like, such as access to a Pepperbox Rifle, BUT I know that the chances are others would find a way to abuse them. So I keep quiet mostly and look for ways within the rules to better myself as a harrying long range type that helps the party.
I see little difference from infusing an explosive missile into a pistol bullet vs a musket round. I do see that letting us gain access to a Pepperbox Rifle could be used as a club to mug folks over for the other advanced firearms. So, as much as I think it would be alright, I don't push it.
By the strict letter of the rules, you can have Pistolero and Musket Master at the same time.
I strongly suspect this is due to a typo on the part of the Pistolero, though, so I would not expect this loophole to be there for long.
It's an iffy technicality at best. Both archetypes alter the same feat so they aren't compatible.
Also I feel it's a bit cheesy to try it. I know Kries role. It's not to fill the air with a lot of lead but to put precise hard hitting shots into a foe and to use other things to impede the enemy. A tangle foot bag (or bomb ) infused in a bullet does that, as well as other bombs. Adding explosive missile to a musket doesn't seem game breaking, particularly when I hear about 8 shots a round four armed mutants running around.
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Also I feel it's a bit cheesy to try it. I know Kries role. It's not to fill the air with a lot of lead but to put precise hard hitting shots into a foe and to use other things to impede the enemy. A tangle foot bag (or bomb ) infused in a bullet does that, as well as other bombs. Adding explosive missile to a musket doesn't seem game breaking, particularly when I hear about 8 shots a round four armed mutants running around.don't feel too bad, there are wizards in the game
True but I like the idea of a mobile, lightly armored type who can run and gun. Last thing I played in was 'You only Die Twice'
Except you can't, because both alter your weapon proficiencies.By the strict letter of the rules, you can have Pistolero and Musket Master at the same time.
Ahah, I knew something didn't feel right when it was suggested to me. I kept focusing on the gun training bit.
-j
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I did. I just feel that it wouldn't be a 'game breaker' to do it with my musket. Most of the gunslinger cheese actions are with pistol builds but the only clear nerf of this type is put on the 2-hand weapons. Yes, I do d12 and have a touch range of 40-50 ft or up to 90 with a grit point but what sort of dips could a human gunslinger/grenadier do @ 6th level around a pistol build compared to my typical 1 shot & move (or free action with paper carts) that I am doing now?
I've got two gunslingers - one is a pistol guy (but not pistolero) who is more of a jack of all trades kind of thing - but I refuse to use two double-barrel + weapon cord + unrealistic cheese, so I just keep it to one double-barrel pistol and he keeps his other hand free to do all his reloading and etc.
Also I feel it's a bit cheesy to try it. I know Kries role. It's not to fill the air with a lot of lead but to put precise hard hitting shots into a foe and to use other things to impede the enemy. A tangle foot bag (or bomb ) infused in a bullet does that, as well as other bombs. Adding explosive missile to a musket doesn't seem game breaking, particularly when I hear about 8 shots a round four armed mutants running around.
My other one is a musket master that I'm thinking to make into a Shieldmarshal eventually, but I have enough Int on him that I was debating doing a few levels of Grenadier too. Can Alchemical Weapon work for Tanglefoot bags? Being able to shoot one of those at 50-or-90 ft could be pretty neat...