Question about aid another verbage

[Xavier319]

Alright, so I know that when determining bonuses to swift aid and aid another, something that syas you change the bonus for aid another to +X, by RAW, doesnt help swift aid, since the bonus starts at +1. and if it just says that is adds +x to aid another, like fools for friends trait, that it DOES add to swift aid. now... what about this...

Aid Allies (Ex)

At 2nd level, whenever an order of the dragon cavalier uses the aid another action to assist one of his allies, the ally receives a +3 bonus to his armor class, attack roll, saving throw, or skill check. At 8th level, and every six levels thereafter, this bonus increases by an additional +1.

It uses the changing of the bonus to a set number verbiage in the first part of the ability. but in the second part, it implies that it's a +X bonus, not a changing of the base number. Which would you use?

[Xavier319]

no one has any clue?

[Derrick Winters]

Well, despite many people reading Aid allies as "replacing" the normal +2 bonus of a standard application of Aid another, or +1 bonus of a specific application of Aid another in case of Swift aid, that is not the case by RAW.

As written, here is what happens:

1) You aid another. This is where Stuff like Helpful(Combat), Helpful(Halfling), Improved Aid or Swift Aid apply; the standard +2 bonus from Aid Another is replaced.

2) Relevant bonuses to Aid another are applied.
This is where stuff that "increases the bonus of aid another" triggers, usually under very specific circumstances:

In Combat, to AC/Atk only
Improved Aid

In Combat, when an ally is Attacked and you use the Bodyguard feat to aid another as AoO:
Honor Guard

If you are an Halfling opportunist and someone else uses the Aid another action on you:
Excellent Aid

3)Other bonuses trigger "when the aid another action is used", under specific circumstances. These are NOT modifying the normal Aid another bonus, as it is not written that they do. Instead, they are completely seperate abilities that apply when aid another is used.

When using Aid another to increase AC:
Gloves of Arcane Striking
Benevolent armor special ability

Note the wording: Both times, the "aid another bonus" isn't modified. Instead, "the ally also adds the wearer's Arcane Strike Damage bonus to
his AC against the opponent". So the ally gets the normal bonus (+2, possibly modified by step 1), possibly improved by step 2)), then an additional, untyped bonus equal to the Arcane Strike Damage bonus from the Gloves of Arcane Striking.

In case of Benevolent armor:
When the wearer of a suit of benevolent armor uses the aid another action to give an ally a bonus to AC against an opponent's next attack, he also adds the benevolent armor's enhancement bonus to the ally's AC.

This time, the wearer adds the bonus to the ally's AC, not the ally himself. Notably, this is an ENHANCEMENT BONUS, and doesn't stack with any enhancement bonus the ally might benefit from already(So, if you have a +2 benevolent fullplate and aid another guy with a +1 chainshirt, he gets a +2 bonus from aid another, and a +2 enhancement bonus, but his AC only improves by 3 vs the next attack).

When using Aid another to increase Atk:
Benevolent weapon special ability

This example is more clear-cut: The seperate effect doesn't provide an untyped bonus to AC(as the example above), but an untyped bonus to damage.

--------------------------------------------

Finally, your original question:

The Order of the Dragon Ability "Aid Allies"...

At 2nd level, WHENEVER an order of the dragon cavalier uses the aid another action to assist one of his allies, the ally receives a +3 bonus to his armor class, attack roll, saving throw, or skill check. At 8th level, and every six levels thereafter, this bonus increases by an additional +1.

Let's run a few examples:

1) A Cavalier Honor Guard is a member of the Order of the Dragon.
At 1st level, he can aid another for +2 to atk/AC/skill checks. He may also use aid another to wake someone who has been enchanted with a sleep spell.
Deep Slumber, Mythic Sleep and the Slumber hex all reference Sleep, and you can similarly wake affected targets.

At 2nd level, he gains his first order ability!
Now, whenever he aids another...he provides a +2 bonus. Then, his order ability triggers(seperately) and "the ally receives a +3 bonus to his armor class, attack roll, saving throw, or skill check".

Why is the ability seperate, and why doesn't it just replace the +2 bonus?
Because you cannot aid another to boost a saving throw, and Aid allies does not explicitly allow you to do so.

[Jadeite]

Derrick Winters wrote:

In case of Benevolent armor:

When the wearer of a suit of benevolent armor uses the aid another action to give an ally a bonus to AC against an opponent's next attack, he also adds the benevolent armor's enhancement bonus to the ally's AC.

This time, the wearer adds the bonus to the ally's AC, not the ally himself. Notably, this is an ENHANCEMENT BONUS, and doesn't stack with any enhancement bonus the ally might benefit from already(So, if you have a +2 benevolent fullplate and aid another guy with a +1 chainshirt, he gets a +2 bonus from aid another, and a +2 enhancement bonus, but his AC only improves by 3 vs the next attack).

There's a difference between an enhancement bonus to AC and an enhancement bonus to the armor bonus of an armor. A character can get an enhancement bonus on his armor bonus, shield bonus, natural armor bonus and AC and they all would stack.

[Manimal]

I use Aid Another: Thread Necro!