grappling at higher levels


Advice


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howdy, i'm thinking of making a grappling tetori monk for a pfs game, but i was a little worried a about grappling's viability in the higher levels, and if in order to be good enough at grappling to be effective i would be too gimped in everything else to do much once we're rarely fighting anything that can be grappled.
any insights would be greatly appreciated.


I think a big limiting factor her is size. You can only grapple creatures of a certain size, and once they are larger than that, it is no longer a tactic, so being able to get the ability to grapple larger creatures, (or become larger yourself) would be a big bonus.

Another thing to consider is your goals behind grappling. If you're trying to tie up all the bad guys, you'll be more or less in the way of everyone else who's trying to do combat.

As for higher levels, I'm not exactly sure what the effects of grappling would be.


are there soft cover issues with grappling that aren't written down? i could understand that, but from reading others' posts on their grapplers it sounded as though grappling folks up helped their teammates as it made the foe's ACs and such worse and worse.


As far as I am aware you can grapple any size creature, it just gets harder against larger creatures due to their size bonus to CMD

(you can only Trip a creature up to one size larger to you without special feats)

A lot of it will depend on your campaign and the creatures you are coming up against. Humanoid and smaller creatures which don't have special touch style attacks will be easy meat, but larger creatures with natural attacks and creatures who can disease or drain you with a touch can limit your options dramatically

I have a monk that I thought would specialise somewhat in grappling, but I rarely use it - partly the opponents, partly the GMs dislike for grappling and partly the ineffectiveness of grappling


hmm, bummer. thanks for the feedback. that's making me think twice.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Check out the new Order of the Penitent (from Knights of the Inner Sea) - likely worth a 2 level dip for many grappling centric builds (netting you a bunch of other things as well actually - could also be a Samurai since they can take Cavalier orders). The key for a grappling build is:

Quote:

Expert Captor (Ex)

At 2nd level, as long as he has rope, the cavalier can tie up a grappled opponent, even if the opponent is not pinned, otherwise restrained, or unconscious, and he does not take the usual –10 penalty on his combat maneuver check to do so. When determining the DC to escape bonds secured by the cavalier, the cavalier's Combat Maneuver Bonus increases by 1/2 his cavalier level.

Which is great action economy - though it depends, slightly, on how "as long as he has rope" is interpreted (i.e. as a DM I'd assume having rope on you is enough but some would require you to have spent actions to get the rope out.

With the right Monk classes and feats this build would be able to grapple and tie up in the same turn - which is exceptional action economy indeed (especially since the escape DC would likely be very very high). A grappler with this and the right build could be an asset to even a high level party.

Like any maneuver specialist you will have to very tactical in how you approach battles and figure out the best ways to leverage your party's capabilities (and buffs) and how to best position yourself for impact. With monks this often means opening with a dash across the battlefield to close quickly with a key BBEG and at higher levels this also means having some alternatives in case you have to fly, swim etc. Though grappling is stronger at high levels than trip since it can work when you shift from a mostly 2D world to a likely 3D battleground. But you also have to figure out ways to deal with enemies with dimension door etc types of abilities.


Kaelizar wrote:

I think a big limiting factor her is size. You can only grapple creatures of a certain size, and once they are larger than that, it is no longer a tactic, so being able to get the ability to grapple larger creatures, (or become larger yourself) would be a big bonus.

Another thing to consider is your goals behind grappling. If you're trying to tie up all the bad guys, you'll be more or less in the way of everyone else who's trying to do combat.

As for higher levels, I'm not exactly sure what the effects of grappling would be.

I believe pathfinder removed the size limitations on grapple. Grab is limited though.


You could always be friends with a wizard who can make you bigger. I kind of would love to see a giant monk put a dragon in a headlock XD.

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