Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
They could also maybe get a little stronger with each kill...That's a really good idea, but you need something better than "each kill" or griefers will simply send wave after wave of throwaway alts against them to make them super-powerful. The Fibonacci sequences is great for this kind of thing, and shows up in nature in things like the growth of sea shells.
Something along those lines, only with a system that evolves and learns:
Enemy AI threadWhat if NPC monsters could learn and evolve their behaviour? If a creature has a number of different attack actions, it could try some random ones along with its basic attacks, and the survival time of the creature and the amount of player damage it manages to cause could be tracked. When a new 'high score' is reached for a monster type, others of its type will adopt more of its behaviour into their default scripts, and vary from there. Over time, the system should learn to play that type of creature better.
For example, imagine a creature has options including a slow but powerful attack, a series of quick jabs, a healing power, and fleeing. One creature might power attack and jab 50% of the time each, while another might make a 75/25% split. The distribution could vary between 100/0 to 0/100, and whichever ones produce the best results would push the others closer to their distribution.
Some creatures of the type in the example may heal when they've hit 50% HP, while others might start at 75% or 25%. A similar but lower range could be set for the creature's morale breakpoint, when it flees and runs towards a safer place or others of its kind. The creatures that live the longest while producing the most player damage would again influence the rest of its type.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Corpses laying around is messy for the players and the system. Satisfy everyone at once by giving a day or two to find your corpse and then let monsters loot it as a means of system cleanup. Enterprising players might sit on a soon to expire corpse and wait for these loot monsters to come to them ;) Obviously this would have to be addressed somehow, to get the corpse gone and avoid any kind of exploitation, but it's simple enough to have beetles consume the thing if the looter can't do its job.
I'd just as soon just let the corpse 'poof' out of existence (Be lost to the sands of time?). It takes more out of the economy, creating more work for crafters so the economy doesn't stagnate.
I guess there could be creatures that destroy a character's husk when they die. I hadn't really considered that before. I like the hoarder idea more because it creates more interesting gameplay in that it actually gives people a reward for destroying the hoarder (their personal loot, as well as removing a threat to others' husks).
Again, I don't see hoarders as a very common thing. I think it would stop being a unique/rare/special opportunity (hoard-hunters traveling the world for personal gain and to help fledgling settlements with their big problem?) and many people would be annoyed to have to bump up against these guys constantly.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
To have a full response to this thread, I have to recount a little of my mmo experiences.
My first ever such experience was on World of Warcraft, long before they started introducing all the little things that annoyed me to tears. I began play as a human mage, Vulrathia I believe her name was. Focused on fire. After defeating the monsters in the starter area and moving on to Goldshire (or whatever its called), I spent a good four hours simply roleplaying the character. Two hours of that was spent in conversation with an elderly gentleman who was crafting bags for people. I had six pieces of linen on me and politely asked if it was enough for a bag. (I later learned that it wasn't.) I did not try to metagame at all (other than combat), and had few if any desires on how specifically to play the game. I was entertained and in awe of the newness of the experience. I also remember the human capital city Stormwind. Before the auction house was put in. It was still very much a social hub (perhaps not as big a one as Ironforge). People were buying and selling wares. Sometimes lesser wares that were not at all difficult to make or sell in quantity. And the prices were affordable for starting players. (:P). And everyone had a story, a unique perspective on the world, on the city, on their race, and on other races. On the first trip to Stormwind, I stopped and watched a duel take place outside the gates. And there was much roleplaying... then. The classes were based on stories. Quests were actual quests other than "Go talk to your trainer.". A druid had to perform quests to gain his alternate forms, commune with nature and with the beasts of the wild. A mage had to eventually find better instructors in the capital or perhaps even out in the wilderness. It was designed around storytelling, or at least so it seemed to me, and there was much of it. What happened to World of Warcraft since then was a travesty. And if any of you still play it, you might see a strong difference between how it was when it was first played and how it is now.
I also need to recount a little of my PVP experience in Warhammer Online. Also an enjoyable game, specifically for its PVP which was amazingly balanced unlike the PVP experience in World of Warcraft. I did not think I would like PVP as I had never enjoyed it in World of Warcraft. I've played a Chaos Magus called Casohnnabus. I can't tell how many times he died in combat, but I think overall he killed more than he was killed.
I do not think that PFO's PVP will be like WAR's. It seems much more intense. But if the story elements can be maintained and expanded on, I think it will be worth it. I would like to see a character record of some type that shows the deaths that a character experiences and from whom/what. It might also be nice to see a little record when you log on.
CharacterA killed you X days ago. Since then, CharacterA has been killed X times. Just for a little mental revenge boost. This might be especially useful if you have a bounty out on CharacterA.
I have not yet experienced the type of PVP that PFO is currently working toward (based on the blog), but I am already anticipating my first character on the game, and I had already intended him to be a little on the evil side. So if you happen to see a red-turbaned sorcerer in the woods one day, you might want to offer him refreshment, gold, or magic lest he make you regret your miserly ways.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
@Keovar - I responded in that thread to that post.
I also like the idea of dragons having actual hoards with loot in their lairs, so that if a rogue wants to sneak in and steal stuff, they don't have to try to fight it. The dragon could still have some loot it drops (notably dragon scales/hide/bone that could be rare and valuable), so there's still plenty of reason to kill it. It could also go all Beowulf Dragon on the hex it's in if it discovers something missing.
I also need to recount a little of my PVP experience in Warhammer Online. Also an enjoyable game, specifically for its PVP which was amazingly balanced unlike the PVP experience in World of Warcraft. I did not think I would like PVP as I had never enjoyed it in World of Warcraft. I've played a Chaos Magus called Casohnnabus. I can't tell how many times he died in combat, but I think overall he killed more than he was killed.
What Warhammer did was a evolution of DAOCs RvR, a little different then the chaos hat makes up normal PvP. I don't really enjoy PvP as its normally done in games. But I'm used to the type of PvP that's being planned in PFO having played it in old games like Drakkar and UO.
Can't stand arena type PvP, but I'm really looking forward to the type we will encounter in Pathfinder :)
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
@Arazni I think something like that in-game would break immersion a little much. A website for limited metagame information, like leaderboards, might be interesting but invasive to privacy. After all, a person may not want other people to know that he's the most accomplished player killer on the server, and put forth great effort in keeping such rumors at bay.
Great idea, could be loads of fun, probably wouldn't fit well with the end goal of finding these things out for yourself though. ;) I wonder if in all of their cataloging whether 7th Veil will keep track of people reporting kill contracts and such.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I like the way the game is heading, even enough to support it with my own money, but I am still very wary at the same time. These saftey nets to avoid a sheer gank fest are a good start, but birds of a feather flock together. I just see all the gankers banding together and having a huge raiding party in the wilderness killing everyone that enters. It will be large enough that all the deterents they have in the game will have no effect on them. I hope it doesn't go that way but previous experiences have shown me otherwise.
While I understand your concern, this is exactly what I hope is possible in a sandbox game like this. This is the type of activity I would expect from a Choatic Evil settlement. I'm hoping this does happen because it gives players who play in Good settlements an excuse to band together to take out the threat, or at least keep them on the fringes.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Those worried about a gankfest have maybe three options. Only one of those is to not take the risk altogether.
The other two are to join in.
Of those two, one group is the passive, who seem like they will be setting themselves up as victims waiting for the rest of the game to play itself out for them.
The third alternative is to be proactive, to not expect the game to play itself for you but instead to take up arms with the Lawful and the Good, and possibly Neutrals and Good Chaotics, to crush the criminals altogether. And that is playing the game.
This is not factoring those who join in on the side of the Griefers.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Those worried about a gankfest have maybe three options. Only one of those is to not take the risk altogether.
The other two are to join in.
Of those two, one group is the passive, who seem like they will be setting themselves up as victims waiting for the rest of the game to play itself out for them.
The third alternative is to be proactive, to not expect the game to play itself for you but instead to take up arms with the Lawful and the Good, and possibly Neutrals and Good Chaotics, to crush the criminals altogether. And that is playing the game.
This is not factoring those who join in on the side of the Griefers.
Those who wish to have help versus the griefers or wish to help take the fight to them are welcome to join The Empyrean Order.
I dont see myself being happy that all my gear is lost except threaded items if I'm looted while dead. I like what your doing, but I think whatever items the looter doesn't get should remain with the husk to be retrieved by the player.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I dont see myself being happy that all my gear is lost except threaded items if I'm looted while dead. I like what your doing, but I think whatever items the looter doesn't get should remain with the husk to be retrieved by the player.
As far as I know, it goes something like this:
1. I am killed. My threaded gear takes some damage and I "depart" for my bind point or possibly a choice of several.
2. As soon as I die, a random 25% of my unthreaded, carried stuff is destroyed.
3. The killer or someone can loot from the rest. What is left sits in my "corpse" for me or someone else to get. There will be a timer (duration unknown by us yet) before the corpse decays. Whoever is first there. "Thief" flag or something similar will probably apply to side looters.
So if you wish, you can go back to try and retrieve anything left. That is what has been implied or is assumed, so far. YMMV
Well that's good I guess. I still don't see a reason to destroy any of it at all, I mean you'll lose some of it to anyone who loots you anyway, but at least it won't all be gone everytime.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Well that's good I guess. I still don't see a reason to destroy any of it at all, I mean you'll lose some of it to anyone who loots you anyway, but at least it won't all be gone everytime.
There is some "sink" in the damage to threaded items. I believe that the idea behind the "25% destroyed" is to take things (sink) them from the economy to spur gathering and crafting for replacement, even more so.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I am positive that we haven't heard the last word yet about looting, corpse-retrievals and the percentages that are currently mentioned, but fantasizing about other options is probably not very productive at this point.
Basically it comes down to: there needs to be a tangible reward for winning a fight, resources and items need to leave the economy at a certain pace, there needs to be a downside for losing a fight(to foster community and create incentives for settlement building) and most important of all, this has to be done without having players leave the game in droves, since this is not going to be a 1-5k subscriber niche game.
So numbers and methods TBTH (To Be Tweaked Heavily) in my opinion.
Fantasizing about other options seems to be exactly how this game is being created
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Actually, I agree with you, was not really trying to stifle anyone in wanting to discuss other possibilities. As a matter of fact, I started this thread about an alternative for corpseretrievals not so long ago, because I feel that they are going to be pointless and even less fun then they are already in PvE games.
My proposal concerning corpseretrievals
You have to understand that a lot of speculation has been going on already, we all want to get a grasp on the mechanics, but there are so many unknowns still. So sometimes I just resign to the fact that I have to wait untill we are in the game and get to try out some of these mechanisms. Hence my somewhat defeatist phrase of "not very productive" in my previous post.
I can understand that you may have read that as trying to silence you or some. I actually meant to say with my post, that I think we will see several iterations of the loot system still, and in fact I am dubious about how people will experience the current loot-rules, which are quit drastic.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I kinda thought the same thing as I voiced my opinion about the action bar. I'll just have to try it and go from there. I'm a to late to to the game to have my opinions change what's already going on, but that's the nice part about getting in early enrollment. If I try it and don't like it I'll have a voice to leverage change.
After the tedious task of reading several years of blogging in a few days to catch up, I just felt the need to comment lol. I'm like the guy that shows up super late for the party with a ton of energy.
"Let's do it!" (In my best Joe Swanson voice)