After receiving my copy of Snows of Summer I just couldn't resist putting up a recruitment thread for a Reign of Winter Play-by-Post. Now I can't wait to get a group to Earth for these shenanigans!
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If it is immediately after WWI, during the Revolution, then maybe the PCs run into the Young Indiana Jones. :P
Young Indy Daredevils of the Desert.
World War 1 Indy.
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If it is immediately after WWI, during the Revolution, then maybe the PCs run into the Young Indiana Jones. :P
Whip specialist!
If it is immediately after WWI, during the Revolution, then maybe the PCs run into the Young Indiana Jones. :PYoung Indy Daredevils of the Desert.
World War 1 Indy.
Indy was in Russian during the Revolution in 1917. An episode that wasn't made, because the series was cancelled, was to have him back there in March of 1918, which is in the time period of Rasputin Must Die. It is actually feasible to involve Young Indy in this part of the AP.
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I actually really like the idea of going to Earth. It's going to be hilarious. Presumably book 6 will take into account clever players can try to take scientifically advanced items and weapons from book 5 and deal with it. The gaes from book 1 likely prevents the party from abusing the hut. Worst case scenario, hand wave that all items from Earth can't make it back with the party.
Low magic shouldn't be a concern either. Rasputin will have plenty of magic and magical minions to keep the party busy. Since its still the same plan of existance as Golarion, magic should still work.
I just love the idea of exploring away a historical mystery in this game. And if you're a GM that hates the idea of visiting earth, every other idea in this thread had good points. Just name the planet you go to something else, heck don't even tell the party it's another planet. GM fiat away things you don't like and hold onto the core of the adventure.
Just my two cents. Everyone's entitled to tweak the game a way they want to. I can't wait for Rasputin Must Die.
So I cant take baba yaga out with my M1918 BAR???? what farce is this?
So I cant take baba yaga out with my M1918 BAR???? what farce is this?
The trick is ... are any BAR's available to be acquired in Siberia, January-February 1918? I think the answer is no, but we won't be sure until this sees release. ;)
Why wouldn't there be? Russia was a US ally, Browning sold guns world wide. The BAR had a drum fed version that made it on to Bi planes... Im not positive about the Russian Bi Planes.... but it's Feasible.
Besides if there aren't any Ill take a lewis gun for 200, alex.
Why wouldn't there be? Russia was a US ally, Browning sold guns world wide. The BAR had a drum fed version that made it on to Bi planes... Im not positive about the Russian Bi Planes.... but it's Feasible.
Besides if there aren't any Ill take a lewis gun for 200, alex.
Seconds on grabbing the Lewis Guns!
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Another thought. Earth & Golarian are in the same universe, so that means you can insert Doctor Who, right?
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Another thought. Earth & Golarian are in the same universe, so that means you can insert Doctor Who, right?
As someone else on the board posted a while back: TARDICH (Time And Relative Dimensions In Chicken Hut).
Another thought. Earth & Golarian are in the same universe, so that means you can insert Doctor Who, right?As someone else on the board posted a while back: TARDICH (Time And Relative Dimensions In Chicken Hut).
Baba Yaga is the Rani?
Seconds on grabbing the Lewis Guns!Why wouldn't there be? Russia was a US ally, Browning sold guns world wide. The BAR had a drum fed version that made it on to Bi planes... Im not positive about the Russian Bi Planes.... but it's Feasible.
Besides if there aren't any Ill take a lewis gun for 200, alex.
Could a barbarian with jotun grip dual wield lewis guns?
"I'll be back!"
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Baba Yaga is the Rani?Another thought. Earth & Golarian are in the same universe, so that means you can insert Doctor Who, right?As someone else on the board posted a while back: TARDICH (Time And Relative Dimensions In Chicken Hut).
No, she's The Baba.
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I'd expect a plague of epic proportions to come with the PC's, with NO saving throw in this aspect, and NO magical cures.and of course, it would work the other way around...oh wait...I don't recall the new world plague that killed over half the world's population popping up in 1917-1922 time periods.
So the great influenza pandemic of 1918 was caused by travelers from Golarion!
Stuff.I get you :)
I just don't like the very idea of the D&D verse spilling into the real world at all.
Nothing says they have to use a completely cannon earth. In fact, most fantasy fiction that utilizes earth has something about it that violates the history, science, or facts of earth in some way shape or form. That is whhy it's fiction instead of non-fiction.
I don't think the heroes will be there long enough to learn about mass production to the point of replicating it themselves. plus they will be in the middle of the wilderness and nowhere near any factories that they could learn about it from.
all they could do is learn a little about medicine and find a way to reverse engineer what they are able to bring back. though what they do make of it will not be the same.
in short the heroes will not be there long enough to bring early 20th century type business and mass production back with them. it looks like as soon as they get there they are taken to the monastery, fight the soldiers and Rasputin and be back to the Hut in time for tea and the 6th part of the adventure.
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Dash, a lot of your logic doesn't really stand up though...
- It's not like everyone in Golarion can go to Earth. It seems to only be possible by incredibly powerful individuals, and there are very few of those on Golarion.
- There's no (or very limited/hidden) magic on Earth. So Earth can't come to Golarion either.
- Okay, sure, if you get shot by a gun, you should probably die, but the heroes likely have magical defenses that will stop those bullets from hitting them completely. Using a more abstract idea of HP helps too (i.e., losing HP isn't "getting hit", it's representing strain and stamina and minor injuries/scratches)
- I think this issue is mentioned up thread, but I'm not sure how a PC is going to bring home a plane or tank and be able to reproduce it entirely - it won't fit in the hut. Besides, why bother? Create an aeroplane, or alternatively just cast fly...
The extreme result of technology into a magical world is likely to look more like Eberron than Earth, anyway.
- Columbus and the Europeans going to the New World was, uhh, a little more than 4-6 people coming for a brief stint... you know that there's always going to have been minor contact between different continents and countries that didn't result in much more than them appearing in their cultural fairy tales, right?
- Why wouldn't remove disease work on an Earth-borne disease?
@Dash: Sure, guns won vs swords and arrows.
But would guns win vs swords, arrows, and MAGIC (and all kinds of crazy ass EX abilities too)?
The easiest way to suspend your disbelief is this: Are you any less dead if I chop your head off with a sword than shoot you with a gun?
No?
Then the same rules apply to both.
Strangely, I have a feeling about this AP that is vice versa from many reservations voiced here. I'm thrilled about going to Earth and Rasputin, also going to Triaxus, but what really doesn't get me are the first two adventures that are already out. I mean, both are very solid adventures—I'm not trying to discredit Neil Spicer or Jim Groves at all here—but somehow these adventures fail to wow me, the "certain something" seems to be missing to me. Also, the "grim fairy tale" aspect, particularly in The Shackled Hut does nothing for me, and its winter-wolves-as-humans-thing turns me off. I think wolves are dramatically overused in fantasy anyway.
And the whole "we are only doing this because of this geas" aspect bothers me too. As a player I would hate it if the GM inflicted something like this on my character.
I was planning to run this after my current Kingmaker campaign concludes in a few weeks, but now I'm not so sure. Even though I'd love to go to Earth.
Hm.
ON Earth when someone gets shot with a gun and dies, thats because, generally, they are a 1st level commoner.
The PCs are a lot more than that. On Earth your 8th Level Fighter would be the equivalent of 1920s era superman.
Someone shoots the 8th fighter right in the chest with a gun, he has 85 hp, the weapon did 12 damage, to on lookers they might say... "Did you see that?? It bounced right off!"
Erm 1918 is not only 30 years from the nuke. The atom bomb which was used in Japan to hasten the end of WW2 is not a "nuke", as in world destroying, that we are 'familiar' with today.
The difference is between a fission and fusion reaction.
A 20th level sorcerer could pull off what happened in Japan in '45. Some might argue lower level casters could as well.
Having been to war with the US Army, I have seen plenty of people get "shot with a machine gun" and not instantly die. Stop watching so much TV/movies and making it 'fact' when it's not.
Actually, the thing to recall is this: while the players know about Earth, the characters have no idea about it. Thus you don't say "you see a tank" you say "You see this strange metal behemoth rattling toward you. You can smell the foul stench of its breath coming out as twin plumes of smoke and steam from the other end of the beast; obviously the nose of this twisted monstrosity is facing away from you. It turns a huge metal limb toward you, and you can see the limb is strangely hollow. The creature lets out a strange whine that sounds like metal protesting its movement as its limb points in your direction..."
Aircraft could be considered strange buzzing dragons that don't flap their wings... and the riders burrow into its body. If they can fly themselves the GM can go on to say "you find that this is a golem or construct of some sort with fabric covering its frame..."
In short, you don't tell people "you're on Earth" and "You're fighting a tank." You make this mystical and mysterious. You turn this into a truly alien environment. And if the players go "It's just a tank..." say "Yes, but your characters have never seen one before. To them, it's a golem or some other monster."
There was a story of a man during the Battle of Concord and Lexington who was fired upon by the Redcoats in a field. He ran to safety without getting hit once. His coat, on the other hand, was riddled with bullets. They all hit the coat... but missed him. :)
There are literally thousands of men and women home from war in the US and other countries that have been shot and blown up and they aren't dead. And they aren't playing with pop guns in the middle east.
Every war or battle has had people that survived grievous wounds, even while they still battle on, stories about this is what made viking berserkers so infamous.
Machine guns are not the ultimate weapons, FBI ballistics report the impact of a set of nunchucks impacting out measure the destructive force of a .45 caliber bullet. Similar reports from the FBI state a knife is more deadly than a gun if the altercation takes place within a short distance (cant recall how far)
The idea of a machinegun being a weapon noone can escape from is disproven both in real life and game mechanics.
This is edging into gun politics - please don't cross the line.
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D&D is a game of fantasy abstraction, not realistic simulationism. IRL a T-rex would kill a human with one bite , but in D&D you take 35 damage out of 107 hp you have and you proceed to retaliate with 5 sword swings that cut the T-rex into shish-kebabs in 6 seconds.
IRL a direct hit from a lightning bolt will fry you in seconds, in D&D it does level/d6 damage which usually makes hardly a dent in a mid-level PC.
IRL when you contract anthrax you will likely die, In D&D you cast remove disease until it's gone.
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You should read this if you want to discuss realism in DnD (and by extension Pathfinder). Whether Rasputing Must Die! is going to try to work by this essay or not is uncertain. That being said, this will still help you wrap your head around Realism and Pathfinder whether or not this adventure does try to keep this essay in mind.
TL;DR: The math of 3.0 is an excellent portrayal/simulation of the real world from level 1 to level 5. After level 6, the characters start becoming super human in capabilities and by 10th level, could probably be considered to be of the same level of power of many of superheroes out of various comic books. From 11 onwards, it's just getting crazier. The essay shows the full math.
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We're arguing about something that's not even in the game yet. For all anyone knows, the high-caliber machine guns will be extra-lethal, doing 4d10 damage per hit with a crit range of 15-20. There is no reason to complain about this UNTIL THE GAME IS RELEASED.
Seriously. People are fretting about eggs laid by chickens hatched from a chick that just emerged from the shell.
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Seriously. People are fretting about eggs laid by chickens hatched from a chick that just emerged from the shell.
I don't know what you did but I think you're driving the Dancing Hut really incorrectly.
Heh
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Dash Jones, I understand you have experience with real weapons, but do remember medival weapons are very lethal as well. I remember having a chance to shoot with a bow once (compound, it was called). The target was ptinted on a page stuck on a block of straw thicker than a grown man. The arrow went so deep into it that the tip came out of the other side - a person hit by such a missile would be dead, no question about it.
How is a man taking a hit from a giant axe and shrugging it off any more realistic than a man taking a gun shot and shrugging it off? And there are things far worse than mere weapons that can harm PCs in Pathfinder - bites from giant monsters, exploding fireballs, or, for example, falling 150 feet. PCs survive all that, and modern day weapons should be no exception - they don't require a special mechanic, only needing to deal a lot of damage to convey how dangerous they are.
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Seriously. People are fretting about eggs laid by chickens hatched from a chick that just emerged from the shell.I don't know what you did but I think you're driving the Dancing Hut really incorrectly.
*slow clap*
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If you want a more realistic combat system the GURPS is the game for you.
Hit Points in D&D are an abstraction of Skill, fitness, and luck.
So when the fighter with 100 HP takes on the TRex the 30 points damage may not be any physical damage at all.... It could be the fighter getting tired and running out of luck.
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It is mildly amusing that people always forget this:
Hit Points (hp): Hit points are an abstraction signifying how robust and healthy a creature is at the current moment.
ON Earth when someone gets shot with a gun and dies, thats because, generally, they are a 1st level commoner.
The PCs are a lot more than that. On Earth your 8th Level Fighter would be the equivalent of 1920s era superman.
Someone shoots the 8th fighter right in the chest with a gun, he has 85 hp, the weapon did 12 damage, to on lookers they might say... "Did you see that?? It bounced right off!"
Erm 1918 is not only 30 years from the nuke. The atom bomb which was used in Japan to hasten the end of WW2 is not a "nuke", as in world destroying, that we are 'familiar' with today.
The difference is between a fission and fusion reaction.A 20th level sorcerer could pull off what happened in Japan in '45. Some might argue lower level casters could as well.
Having been to war with the US Army, I have seen plenty of people get "shot with a machine gun" and not instantly die. Stop watching so much TV/movies and making it 'fact' when it's not.
Oddly enough, I've served with the military too, and with the "machine guns" of today, normally they don't just die, they pretty much evaporate. The Weapons we normally use, are used on burst setting and even that is enough to kill easily enough in trained hands. In untrained hands it stands a good chance of not killing, but then again, those types wouldn't be serving in the armed services.
Artillery then and now, it doesn't matter how many "HP" you have...you will die from a hit.
And I've never seen a bullet bounce off anyone. I had an instance where I got dang lucky and it must have reflected off the protection and ended up in my clothes...but never actually bounced off.
You have an odd experience if what you relate is your experience. Normally I didn't see people shot with a machine gun, though a suppose a 50 cal could be considered one. With that, people don't just die, if they are in the path of it it's more like a bloody pulp is left than a person.
Most of the injuries of being "Shot" are normally not from...
Dash.
The Machine Guns of "today" ARE the same weapons from the WW1 era not enough has changed to classify them differently.
The M2 browning was invented at the end of ww1 and the BAR was as well, if nothing lese they fire larger calibers than what we are used to today.
So our weapons are not "more lethal" than the era being discussed.
As far as "bouncing off" non of us are 8th level fighters with 85 HP and the ability to do things PCs can at that character level, so no, you wouldnt see that kind of stuff IRL. I made that quite clear.
You haven't seen people shot, more than once and go home?
I find that hard to believe if you have served in combat in the last decade or so.
I have personally witnessed that more than I care to recall, and none of us were getting shot at by hand guns. Everything there can be classified as 'machine guns; for the purposes of this discussion.
I dont see how you would think that explosives are somehow less lethal than gunshots?
IEDs/boobytraps/mines accounted for more deaths in vietnam than gun shots. I have not seen any Iraq/afghan stats but if scuttle butt is accurate, I think it would be fair to say the same is true today.
IF one can survive being exploded, one can survive being shot.
"Trained" hands is a relative term. If every soldier killed everyone they ever shot, we wouldnt need medics on either side.
WW1 had many more conscripted/drafted "citizen soldiers" fighting during that time than professional soldiers, with the standard rifleman having less than 1 year experience on average and from 4-6 weeks of training.
Crew serve machine guns are largely suppression type weapons and statistically aren't credited much for single person kills. So you are back down talking about light machine guns/assault rifles. which is the same stuff we use in the field today.
I'm not really sure where you get your "bloody pulp" experiences from, but I have seen more than a few 'normal' people get back up and keep fighting after getting more than a "burst" from a weapon, requiring some follow up wet work.
and again, none of those people are 8th level fighter superheroes.
And as far as 'nukes' again...dont underestimate the destructive power of casters, they have plenty of ability to wipe out masses if they so chose.
Dash Jones, I understand you have experience with real weapons, but do remember medival weapons are very lethal as well. I remember having a chance to shoot with a bow once (compound, it was called). The target was ptinted on a page stuck on a block of straw thicker than a grown man. The arrow went so deep into it that the tip came out of the other side - a person hit by such a missile would be dead, no question about it.
How is a man taking a hit from a giant axe and shrugging it off any more realistic than a man taking a gun shot and shrugging it off? And there are things far worse than mere weapons that can harm PCs in Pathfinder - bites from giant monsters, exploding fireballs, or, for example, falling 150 feet. PCs survive all that, and modern day weapons should be no exception - they don't require a special mechanic, only needing to deal a lot of damage to convey how dangerous they are.
This
Developer
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Just to add something here...
It's completely okay if this particular part of the Adventure Path doesn't appeal to everyone. I can understand how the introduction of the idea of visiting a remote part of real world Earth can put people off in their fantasy game. And if someone is for sure that the slightest hint of that kinda thing could seriously disrupt the fun of their group, then by all means find something different to run. I'm here for the fun, like I imagine everyone else is.
If it doesn't jazz someone, it doesn't jazz someone. You can't force that kinda thing.
All said and done, I *DO* hope people at least read the adventure. I'd hate to think that people thought we lost our minds and came at this out of the blue. Baba Yaga's history in the game has always interjected strange bits of the real world, and I'd like to think we've preserved some of that nostalgia while cutting our own path with the folklore and what you can do with it.
Just to add something here...
It's completely okay if this particular part of the Adventure Path doesn't appeal to everyone.
It is? Oh! Oh, I mean, It is! ;)
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Be that as it may, I'm still wondering about how to sell these chicken eggs I got from Baba Yaga's hut. She really should have provided better driving instructions, I swear... ^^;;
If it doesn't jazz someone, it doesn't jazz someone. You can't force that kinda thing.
All said and done, I *DO* hope people at least read the adventure. I'd hate to think that people thought we lost our minds and came at this out of the blue. Baba Yaga's history in the game has always interjected strange bits of the real world, and I'd like to think we've preserved some of that nostalgia while cutting our own path with the folklore and what you can do with it.
yeah it (amongst other things ) "jazzed" me out of subscription having played the original "mace of St Cuthbert adventure (back at dragon #100), for terrible effects on our campaign world....... nope, not really up my alley, part of town or even city. That and "Wrath of the Righteous" =/= bad jazz
That and "Wrath of the Righteous" =/= bad jazz
Are you aware that =/= usually means "not equal"? You seem to want to say the opposite.
And what's wrong with Wrath of the Righteous?