Not going to say a word...
It was 6.
If we had access to Ultimate Combat I would say Gunslinger1/Rogue(Scout/Sniper)X.
Sadly, I have had the best luck with my Rogue(Scout)10/Assassin10 getting consistent kills...
Would Death Attack work with thrown Melee Weapons?
Don't listen to the naysayers that say "while you're sniping one shot per round, your party is 'down there getting killed' and you should be down there getting killed with them". If your character concept isn't to be in the thick of battle, then don't be in the thick of battle. That's like trying to chastise the mage for not being in frontline melee combat.
Ninja Assassin, Zen Archer Monk, Alchemist Bomber, Sorcerer Ray Specialist and Bushwhacker Gunslinger all make great long-range "snipers". The problem is, without access to the "Ultimate" line of books, and with a 15 point buy, you will not reach the potential necessary for a one-shot, one kill build. You simply won't have the feats, abilities, or equipment to make it viable.
Your best bet is going to be straight Zen Archer Monk and/or Arcane Archer. Use as many ranged feats/abilities from as many sourcebooks as you can, and play it as close to your sniper concept as you can. Talk to your DM about maximimzing sneak attack opportunities, ability to get greater invisibility, perhaps altering the interpretation/functionality of feats such as Vital Strike for maximum punch, etc...
Without any of the "Ultimate" books, you're too limited to do what you want to do. Which is always a tragedy (and why I never limit sourcebooks).
Are we looking at long ranger spec ops snipers or short range squad support snipers?
You can make Short Ranged Snipers using only the CRB & APG
My mistake. I thought the 7th level ability of the Crossbowman caused Flat-Footed ness, but it merely denies dex. C'est la vie.
@Pharmalade
Well u seem to have it pegged down. I do have 1 question for u and that is how are u gona get them flat footed to u with out wasting a full-round action in hopes that u can intimidate them. Also by extention leaving ur self open to being attacked since u will have to be within 30 ft of said target and btw cant ready an action since that takes a standard action on ur turn to do. Good luck being close range ill be waiting for ya up the hill 1/2 a mile away as u solve that problem.
Still, you can ready a standard action.
You can ready a standard action, a move action, a swift action, or a free action. To do so, specify the action you will take and the conditions under which you will take it.
And opponent that's a 1/2 mile away will be flat-footed to your attack. It does still make sense for a sniper, sadly not for every shot.
Simplest way to ensure you get your readied shot is to make sure one of your party members to get them to attack or move and have that feat that negates the penalty for shooting into melee.
Could you reasonably have it activate if they get Bull Rushed into a square so you shoot them when they get knocked into that square?
Spoilers are your friends.
Okay that class seems way all over the place thematically and way too complicated. It looks like you just shoved your favorite bits of Wizard, Rogue, Ranger, Arcane Archer, and Zen Archer into one small space and called it a day.
Back on topic, you absolutely want to go Rogue for this if you're looking for a Sniper playstyle. You can get off a really strong Sneak Attack shot at the start of combat and then fan out to try and get behind the guy, which will keep your sneak attack active via flanking.
Actually, do rogue still get their flanking sneak attack dmg with ranged weapons?
Considering that using a ranged weapon in melee provokes that would be risky if they do.
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If you play with traits there is an Andoran Faction trait in the PFS Guide to Organized play called "Hunter Eye" that let's you ignore the penalty for the second range increment with longbows or short bows and you are always proficient with one of those weapons (which may be relevant if you play a Rogue and want to use a longbow).
Not sure if this helps you with your build or not... Just throwing it out there.
If you do play with traits and you choose to play a Ranger you MUST select Magical Knack as one of your traits.
(Just kidding)
(Not really)
Considering that using a ranged weapon in melee provokes that would be risky if they do.
Well I meant when using a ranged weapon from a distance, but this (and taking another look at flanking in the Combat Rules) answer the question, anyway.
You can't Flank at range without some feat right?
Okay I think I'm using the wrong wording:
I'm talking about sneak attack damage. In the Sniper archetype, it says the range at which sneak attack damage can be applied increases by 10ft, but I didn't see a reference to range in the rogue class page, so I assumed it meant melee only, so a 3rd level sniper can apply sneak attack damage from 15ft away.
30 feet is the range.
"Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet."
AH, must have glanced over that bit.
In that case, taking the Sniper's Eye feat once with the Sniper archetype would bring that distance out to 70ft, which is plenty of space to get consistant sneak attacks in if you have natural cover. If a guy is busy having a sword fight it's not going to be as easy to spot where that crossbow bolt in his shoulder came from, and as soon as he looks as doesn't immediately see the threat he's probably going to turn back to the swordfight.
You mean Rogue Talent not Feat.
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If I recall correctly, the Sniper Goggles are in Ultimate Combat, which the OP stated isn't allowed (I wanted them for my Rogue too and then realised that they're not in the books allowed).
The Greater Sniper Goggles are in the UE, but the Sniper Goggles are in the APG and thus legal for the OP (and a must have for any sniper really).
You mean Rogue Talent not Feat.
Right
You mean Rogue Talent not Feat.Right
Be glad it wasn't Ravingdork who seen that.
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Ok with a 15 point buy, no magic gear, excluding the "Ultimate" books all together, and using strictly pathfinder material the following is the best i can come up with.
-Race-
Human
-Class-
Rogue (Spy Scout)
-Stats-
STR 12(base 12)
DEX 23(base 16)(racial 2)(leveling 5)
CON 10(base 10)
INT 14(base 14)
WIS 10(base 10)
CHA 08(base 08)
-Feats-
01 Rapid Reload Heavy Crossbow, Point-Blank Shot
02 Talent - Combat Trick - Rapid Shot
03 Crossbow Mastery Heavy Crossbow
04 Talent - Bleeding Attack
05 Precise Shot
06 Talent - Fast Stealth
07 Deadly Aim
08 Talent - Ledge Walker
09 Vital Strike
10 A, Talent - Improved Evasion
11 Weapon Focus Heavy Crossbow
12 A. Talent - Stealthy Sniper
13 Skill Focus Stealth
14 A. Talent - Skill Mastery
15 Improved Vital Strike
16 A. Talent - Feat - Improved Critical Heavy Crossbow
17 Improved Precise Shot
18 Talent - Expert Leaper
19 Bullseye Shot
20 Talent - Nimble Climber
U will need the Sniper Goggles to make it work
Seranov:
Without houseruling it Snap Shot does not allow a ranged attacker to flank. However, it will allow a ranged combatant to provide a flank. The problem is not within snap shot, it is within the rules for flanking since to benefit from flanking the rules state you must be using a melee weapon. To provide flanking the rules only state that you must be threatening.
- Gauss
Interesting, the way the rules work together eh.
Azaelas Fayth: Yup, I houserule that Snap Shot will allow the shooter to flank. It just makes sense that if you can threaten, you can flank.
- Gauss
Simpler way to say it: If you threaten you can get the flanking bonus. Making a well built Archer devastating...
The Greater Sniper Goggles are in the UE, but the Sniper Goggles are in the APG and thus legal for the OP (and a must have for any sniper really).If I recall correctly, the Sniper Goggles are in Ultimate Combat, which the OP stated isn't allowed (I wanted them for my Rogue too and then realised that they're not in the books allowed).
Yeah, you're actually right, I found them last night on a "shopping tour" for my characters. Now I need to wait on my GM's decision on whether they're available in the town my AP is set in, or not.
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Azaelas Fayth: Yup, I houserule that Snap Shot will allow the shooter to flank. It just makes sense that if you can threaten, you can flank.
- Gauss
I have a similar house rule. I rule that you only get the +2 flank bonus with a melee as normal, but a Rogue with Snap Shot or Improved can use Sneak Attack when flanking/threatening with their bow - but they do it without the +2.
Wait hold on I think I have missed something.
I thought flanking only made the foe flat-footed?
Flanking just provides a bonus. It doesn't make them Flat-Footed.
Gravity Bow IIRC only works with Bows not Crossbows.
You do realize that Snipers originally would be Elite Archers that would fight around 30 feet or less. Think The Patriot.
But Harsk(Iconic Ranger) just became awesome.
Just wanted to pop in and ask if anyone mentioned to the OP: The Genius Guide to Archer Archetypes?
Has substitutions that would benefit the one shot per round style instead of the massive arrow volley style.
Alchemists get access to a discovery named explosive missile: you load and fire an ammunition with a bomb inside as a standard action.
Get a heavy crossbow, the vital strike chain and with a couple of discoveries and feats you will be at least decent in damage, with some options for stealth (spells, dex based and lots of skills).
Your BAB is not impressive, but you don't care about iterative attacks as a sniper, and dex is very high (thanks to mutagens).
Special bombs offers some nice options (smoke bomb, the entangling one etc.)
I don't think it's an optimal option but should be a fun one.
On a side note, cheap poisons (thx to master alchemist) can be applied as a swift action from low-mid levels and allow you to target another save, kind of useful against spellcasters.
Hmm...
Fighter(Crossbowman) with all the crossbow feats. Focuses entirely on getting the drop on the enemy then fallback and repeat.
Alchemist is in APG. Explosive Missile though is in UC therefore illegal.
Hmm...
Fighter(Crossbowman) with all the crossbow feats. Focuses entirely on getting the drop on the enemy then fallback and repeat.
Alchemist is in APG. Explosive Missile though is in UC therefore illegal.
I see. It's a pity, the UC is full of interesting stuff
Yeah it has a lot Especially for a Sniper.
Using CRB+APG I built a Scout Sniper Rogue that could really do well as a Vital Striking, Deadly Aiming, Sneak Attacking, etc Skirmisher.
When I get the chance I will post up a Stat Block of Her. Though that might not be for a Few days or even nearly a week with my current schedule.
Anyone consider a Sorcerer/Eldritch Knight or Sorcerer/Arcane trickster?
I normally wouldn't go sorcerer, but if you are just focusing on rays, than the increased spell slots per day becomes an issue.
IN any case, I have seen some Ek's with some pretty intense damage with rays via maximizing, empowering, etc. metamagic. I know Arcane tricksters have the potential, but i also feel like their BAB is too low for my personal tastes...
plus you get all of the great escape/utility spells, in case your plan goes awry.
It was 6.
If we had access to Ultimate Combat I would say Gunslinger1/Rogue(Scout/Sniper)X.
Sadly, I have had the best luck with my Rogue(Scout)10/Assassin10 getting consistent kills...
Would Death Attack work with thrown Melee Weapons?
Given the exact wording, I think it would, yes:
If an assassin studies his victim for 3 rounds and then makes a sneak attack with a melee weapon that successfully deals damage, the sneak attack has the additional effect of possibly either paralyzing or killing the target (assassin's choice).
So there's that, at least.
byron34: Refine your concept, work with the formatting, and try again later. Sadly, it doesn't work for the OP, as he's limited in what he can select, but keep trying.
Examples:
Sniper
d10, Best Base Attack, Best Fortitude and Reflex, Worst Will
Skill ranks per level: 6+INT modifier
- Level 1: Accuracy, Snipers Eye 1d6, Perfect Strike
- Level 2: Combat Style Feat or Expert Archer
- Level 3: Deadly Range, Point Blank Master
- Level 4: Hawkeye, Ki pool, Ki Spells
- Level 5: Snipers Eye 2d6
etc.
- Accuracy: Halves all range increment penalties.
- Perfect Strike: Must declare before attack is made. Once per day, per level, may roll twice for a single attack, taking the greater. Only usable once per round.
- Snipers Eye: May add precision strike damage, but only with ranged, up to 30’. Starts at 1d6 at 1st level, at 5th level, and every 5 class levels beyond that, it increases by an additional d6 (max 5d6 at 20). This ability is the same as Sneak Attack for rogues, however with ranged weapons.
- Combat Style Feat: If they choose this ability instead of Expert Archer (see below), the sniper's expertise manifests in the form of bonus feats at 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th levels. He can choose feats from the below list each time he gains a Combat Style Feat, even if he does not meet the normal prerequisites, Deadly Aim, Deadshot¹, Far Shot, Focused Shot*, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Reload, Rapid Shot, Way of the Bow²ˑ³, and Zen Archery². At 6th level, he adds Crossbow Mastery*, Improved Deadshot¹, Improved Precise Shot, and Manyshot to the list. At 10th level, he adds Greater Deadshot¹, Pinpoint Targeting, and Shot on the Run to the list.
- Expert Archer: If they choose this ability instead of Combat Style Feats (see above), the sniper gains +1 to attack and damage rolls while using a ranged weapon they are proficient with. This bonus increases by an additional +1 every 4 levels beyond. This ability replaces all Combat Style Feats.
- Point Blank Master: Does not suffer attacks of opportunity when firing while threatened.
- Deadly Range: Can make precision strikes at greater distance. Add 10’ to max range, and an additional 10’ per 3 character levels beyond.
- Hawkeye: At 4th level, the Sniper gains +1 perception and increases the range increment of any bow he uses by 5’. Every 4th character level beyond it increases by an addition +1 and 5’.
- Ki Pool: The Sniper has tapped into an amount of hidden energy, called many things by individual snipers, but most often referred to as Ki by monks and similar ascetic students, equal to half his level plus his wisdom modifier (. The Sniper can use this hidden energy to perform amazing feats of ranged assault. By expedning ki, the sniper can extend the range of his bow by 50’ per point spent, for one round. 10’ of each 50’ is added to precision damage eligibility. For example, by expending 4 points of ki, the sniper would gain an additional 200’ to their range increment, and 40’ to their precision strike range.
- Ki Spell: By focusing their energy at the beginning of the day, a Sniper can actually craft spells to cast later. It requires one point of ki per level of the spell to be prepared. Preparing spells always takes one hour, regardless of how many spells are prepared. Once prepared, the ki cannot be returned to the ki pool until the ranger rests for the night. A sniper cannot prepare a spell unless their class level is at least four times the level of the spell; for example, a Sniper cannot prepare and cast first level spells until they have achieved fourth level, and they cannot prepare and cast second level spells until they have achieved eighth level.
- 1st Level: Alarm, Alter Winds*, Bombers Eye*, Endure Elements, Entropic Shield, Expeditious Retreat, Feather Fall, Glide*, Gravity Bow*, Obscuring Mist, Produce Flame, Silent Image, True Strike, Vanish*, Ventriloquism
- 2nd Level:
- Etc
Later (after all this), you can have a spoiler tag by level "first level spells", in listed form, then second level, and so on.
Doing it this way makes it vastly easier to read, and is a tremendously superior experience for those you're trying to show it off to.
Keep tweaking it, too. I made a few changes - generally putting things in "standard" order, but also cribbing a bit off of the quinggong monk archetype to retool your spells ability and how that interacts with ki (though I cribbed a little bit more towards how you had it originally; it's hasty work, I admit, and needs some retooling), and removing Shocking Grasp from the spell list (because why would a sniper have that, cool as it is?). Still, feel free to ignore the changes; they are, at most, meant to show "other ways" of looking at things, not "you're doing it wrong." I didn't bother looking through and trying to balance everything... too much work, with too little time.
If you're interested in posting various iterations as you hammer stuff out, may I offer my thread for such things (made specifically to put ideas there and get feedback)? Anyway, it's a nifty concept, definitely needs some work, but a very nifty concept. Keep hammering away at it!
I'd make a Ninja since at level 9 they get assassinate which can be used at range, and get all the vital strike feats since you can also use those at range. Than you can just add whatever you want such as deadly aim and furious focus so you don't take the to hit penalty from deadly aim on your attack roll.
He doesn't have access to any of the Ultimate Books.
And assasinate is a master trick that comes at level 10 earliest.