Transformative: This ability can only be placed on a melee weapon. A transformative weapon alters its shape at its wielder's command, becoming any other melee weapon of the same general shape and handedness; the weapon's categorization as simple, martial, or exotic is irrelevant. For example, a Medium transformative longsword can take the shape of any other Medium one-handed melee weapon, such as a scimitar, flail, or trident, but not a Medium light or two-handed melee weapon (such as a Medium short sword or a Medium greatsword). It can even take the shape of comparable weapons of different size categories. For example, a Small greatsword is a two-handed slashing weapon for a Small character, but is a one-handed slashing weapon for a Medium character, which is very similar to a Medium longsword; a Small transformative greatsword can become an actual Medium longsword, usable by a Medium creature without the –2 penalty for using a weapon of the wrong size. The weapon retains all of its abilities, including enhancement bonuses and weapon properties, except those prohibited by its current shape. For example, a keen transformative weapon functions normally in the form of a piercing or slashing weapon, but cannot use the keen property when in the shape of a bludgeoning weapon. When unattended, the weapon reverts to its true shape.
The Transformative weapon property is not technically disallowed from being placed on an Amulet of Mighty Fists. But the way that the Transformative property works is that a medium light weapon can become any other medium light weapon, a one- handed weapon a one-handed weapon, and a two-handed weapon a two-handed weapon. An unarmed strike, however, is none of these - it is it's own category of weapon class - called Unarmed Strike, which includes only "Gauntlet" and an "Unarmed Strike". So yes, you could get a Transformative Amulet of Might Fists and turn your fists into gauntlets. But that's it.
Where are you pulling that from? When you quote things, it helps to list them - with a link, if necessary (something I forgot.)
Also, unarmed strikes being "considered light weapons" does not MAKE them light weapons. Without any more information about where you're pulling that from or what it's in reference to, I can't possibly contribute anymore than to say "no, you're wrong" - which, I'm fairly confident you are in this case, but I'd like to provide something more than that, since it takes clear logic and reason (or at least it should) to prove a point to someone else.
I'll repeat myself, an unarmed strike "being considered" a light weapon DOES NOT make it a light weapon, it's considered a light weapon for certain purposes, which are listed immediately following the short quote you copied...
Strike, Unarmed: A Medium character deals 1d3 points of nonlethal damage with an unarmed strike. A Small character deals 1d2 points of nonlethal damage. A monk or any character with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat can deal lethal or nonlethal damage with unarmed strikes, at his discretion. The damage from an unarmed strike is considered weapon damage for the purposes of effects that give you a bonus on weapon damage rolls.
An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon. Therefore, you can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with an unarmed strike. Unarmed strikes do not count as natural weapons (see Combat).
Also, while I use d20pfsrd.com as a reference, it is not an official source and does sometimes have errors. Just an FYI.
The weapon description on the Pathfinder PRD lists the Unarmed strike under the "Unarmed Attacks" category. It is NOT a light weapon, it is an "Unarmed Attack" and therefore cannot be turned into anything other than a "Gauntlet" via the Transformative property since it's the only other weapon under the same category. See the chart at the following link:
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/equipment.html#weapon-descriptions
Two more things:
1) Turning your fist into a scythe is possible by your interpretation. This is (from a very logical and obvious perception) very silly...
2) The phrase "is considered as" literally MEANS that it falls into a different category...
I'm going to respectfully allow someone else to clarify why you are incorrect because I'm unable to successfully help you see the rules more clearly. I am, however, 99.9% confident that your interpretation is incorrect.
Yes, I know that magic is the answer, and that part is fine. What I disagree with is that an Unarmed strike is CLEARLY under a different category of weapon, it's own specific category and being considered a light weapon does not ACTUALLY make it a light weapon. It's like saying that "a light truck is considered a car for the purposes of vehicle registration & licensing." This does not actually MAKE a light truck a car for other purposes.
Let me ask you a question though - Why do you want this to work? Is it just because you think it should work that way, or are you trying to accomplish something specific? For your info, Boar style and Tiger style both allow you to turn your unarmed strikes into slashing weapons and Snake style allows you to turn them into Piercing weapons - if those things were your All three of these have other abilities that are generally useful for an unarmed combatant - Monk or otherwise.
Now, I'm not saying that allowing it to function the way you are suggesting is game breaking, it shouldn't be that big of a deal. It is, however, not the way I interpret the rules and therefore I would say it's a house rule (of which, I use plenty).
It would not work by RAW (rules as written) unless someone else can explain to me why an unarmed strike "being considered" a light weapon would actually change it's category to BEING a light weapon. If that was the case, why wasn't it simply PUT into the "light weapon" category when they released the core rulebook. No, the fact that it's placed into it's own category and then considered a light weapon for certain purposes was 100% the intention of the designers.
tl;dr - "considered a light weapon" =/= IS a light weapon.
If you concede that it isn't a light weapon, then we can go back to the original quote and answer the question...
Transformative: This ability can only be placed on a melee weapon. A transformative weapon alters its shape at its wielder's command, becoming any other melee weapon of the same general shape and handedness
Since the rest of the quote goes on to reference light, one-handed, and two handed-weapons regularly, I interpret those categories as being the "handedness" that the Transformative property is referring to. (I am, again, 99.9% sure this is the "handedness" that's being discussed - think two-weapon fighting penalties.) If those are the categories that Transformative is bound to (which they are) and we've established that an unarmed strike is NOT a light weapon (which it is not) then it can only transform within it's own category, in the tiny "Unarmed Attacks" category which includes only the Gauntlet, and therefore cannot do anything other than turn metal and ruin a monk's scaling damage.
Again, I do not think that allowing your fist to change into a light weapon is necessarily over powered. It is, however, not possible by a reading of the rules as written (RAW). At least as I see it.
But seriously, does anyone else have any feedback here? lol. I'd like some backup on my position, or if I'm wrong, please point out why that is...
If I wanted to be pedantic, I could argue that a hand is only an unarmed strike when it is in the act of attacking - that is it is making a strike. Waving your hand around in the air is not a strike (unarmed or otherwise). Or taking any other action with your hand that is something other than attacking with it means it does not currently qualify as an unarmed strike, and therefore is not currently considered a light weapon as only 'unarmed strike' counts as a light weapon. Therefore when you are not attacking with your hand it cannot be transformed to something other than your hand. When you are attacking it follows standard magic item rules in that it would take a standard action to activate the transformative property (since the property doesn't specify, it defaults to standard action), and therefore you don't have a standard action available to transform it in the same round you attack with your unarmed strike.
So... get a hook in place of your hand with interchangeable hardware to swap to the weapon type you want?
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From what I have read, you can use this to turn your unarmed strikes(and possible natural attacks) into attacks with a weapon. Unarmed strikes are labeled as light weapons, so with this property you could turn your hands into daggers(as both are light melee weapons and the example shows that you can turn a longsword "into any other Medium one handed weapon") and flurry or natural attack with that. I think it sounds pretty cool.
The rules about unarmed attacks also refer to people armed with only unarmed attacks as unarmed. In other words, the rules either contradict themselves on whether unarmed strike is a weapon, or use English poorly.
But for the sake of argument, let us suppose that a transformative Amulet of Mighty Fists can turn hands into copies of light melee weapons. Transformative only changes shape, it does not change material. For example, it cannot change a steel dagger into an alchemical silver dagger nor an adamantine dagger. Thus, hands transformed into daggers would become daggers made of skin and bone.
Skin cannot hold an edge. For the transformation to be effective, the edge would have to be bone. Human bone is not designed to be exposed to dirt and open air. As a GM I would be very tempted to make the character roll for a change of getting a nasty infection in the bone. Which fortunately can be easily cured by a cleric with a Remove Disease spell, but it would be an expensive side effect of using the transformative amulet.
Worse, an Amulet of Mighty Fists applies its abilities to only unarmed strikes and natural weapons. Once some fool transforms his hands into daggers, they no longer count as unarmed strikes nor natural weapons. Definitely unnatural. The amulet could not affect them to transform them back. The user would be stuck that way.
But whoever enchanted the amulet would have known of those drawbacks. Therefore, I would houserule that the wizard who made such amulet would have used some common sense and designed it so that body parts would transform only into sensible natural weapons instead of silly weapons like daggers of flesh.
Thus, hands could transform into cat claws or crab pinchers for natural claw attacks. Feet could transform into hooves for natural hoof attacks. Heads could grow horns for natural gore attacks. I would even let humanoid teeth, which are not mentioned in the unarmed attack rules, grow into fangs for a natural bite attack or tusks for a natural gore attack.
However, the amulet's user cannot get claws, hooves, horns, and fangs all at the same time. Transformative lets something transform into one weapon. It won't transform a dagger into a combination handaxe, kukri, light hammer, and starknife. The user has to pick one. The same principle would apply to natural weapons. Claws or hooves or horns or fangs, no combinations.
Claws on an ape do 1d4 damage but get two attacks. Hooves on a pony do 1d3 damage but get two attacks. Bite on a wolf does 1d6 damage, one attack--which means the strength bonus to damage gets a 1.5 multplier. Horns on a bison do 2d6 damage, but those are the large version. Medium horns would scale down to 1d8, one attack plus the 1.5 multplier on strength bonus.
One more complication: the spells that give someone a natural weapon automatically grant proficiency with that natural weapon. But transformative is only a reshaping effect. It does not grant weapon proficiency; for example, a character with simple weapon proficiency cannot transform a dagger into a siangham and still wield it with proficiency. Thus, a character who used a transformative amulet to give himself horns for a 1d8 attack would take a -4 penalty to attack rolls for nonproficiency, unless he took the Weapon Proficiency(Horns) feat. I would rule that a sorcerer who can grow claws or fangs due to his bloodline would have proficiency in those natural weapons. The transformative amulet would be a good way to extend the use of those proficiencies.
In short, the transformative Amulet of Mighty Fists could turn body parts into natural weapons, only one kind of natural weapon at a time, and does not grant proficiency. That seems balanced. And rather amusing.
Think about that.
I've thought about it and my conclusion is that using a Merfolk with one of these to play a hammer-head shark would be awesome.
I would just make it allow alternate damage types for it.
But I wouldn't allow it to begin with as Unarmed Strikes are outside the normal weapon charts.
A Transformative Gauntlet would work.
So with this transformative AoMF, can he simultaneously turn all of his hands and feet into knives? Walk around like The Shrike from Hyperion?
Oh, better question. Lets not forget the AoMF was originally intended for Druid use. Can a wildshaped druid with a transformative AoMF turn each of his eight Giant Octopus tentacles into a large falchion? Because lol.
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Actually, the unarmed strike is just one weapon, consisting of multiple parts.
This would mean all parts of the body capable of making an unarmed strike, would become the one chosen weapon, and not multiples of that weapon, but just one.
You become the knife, and nothing more.
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The "same general shape and handedness" part makes this unable to work.
What weapons are the "same general shape" as an unarmed strike?
Answer: The unarmed strike.
How about this?
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShapeshifterWeapon
Turning a fist into a hammer is no more different than turning a longsword into a trident. Or turning octupus arms into whips.
The unarmed strike consists of more than a fist. It is your body.
Even an Ooze can make an unarmed strike.
By RAW, you turn all parts of a weapon into another single weapon.
To get what you want, consider the Grasp of Droskar, with the Transfomative property.
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I'll repeat myself, an unarmed strike "being considered" a light weapon DOES NOT make it a light weapon, it's considered a light weapon for certain purposes, which are listed immediately following the short quote you copied...
Strike, Unarmed: A Medium character deals 1d3 points of nonlethal damage with an unarmed strike. A Small character deals 1d2 points of nonlethal damage. A monk or any character with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat can deal lethal or nonlethal damage with unarmed strikes, at his discretion. The damage from an unarmed strike is considered weapon damage for the purposes of effects that give you a bonus on weapon damage rolls.
An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon. Therefore, you can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with an unarmed strike. Unarmed strikes do not count as natural weapons (see Combat).
Also, while I use d20pfsrd.com as a reference, it is not an official source and does sometimes have errors. Just an FYI.
The weapon description on the Pathfinder PRD lists the Unarmed strike under the "Unarmed Attacks" category. It is NOT a light weapon, it is an "Unarmed Attack" and therefore cannot be turned into anything other than a "Gauntlet" via the Transformative property since it's the only other weapon under the same category. See the chart at the following link:
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/equipment.html#weapon-descriptions
Two more things:
1) Turning your fist into a scythe is possible by your interpretation. This is (from a very logical and obvious perception) very silly...
2) The phrase "is considered as" literally MEANS that it falls into a different category...Originally I was referencing the ultimate equipment guide, but I can't link that to you. So I went with the PRD.
In any case, if its "always considered a light weapon." then it would be considered a light weapon for...
Read the whole page of the Equipment guide you are using as a reference (p. 17) instead of reading only the part that will allow you that:
Light: A light weapon is used in one hand. It is easier to use
in one’s off hand than a one-handed weapon is, and can be used while grappling. Add the wielder’s Strength modifier to damage rolls for melee attacks with a light weapon if it’s used in the primary hand, or half the wielder’s Strength modifier if it’s used in the off hand. Using two hands to wield a light weapon gives no advantage on damage; the Strength modifier applies as though the weapon were held in the wielder’s primary hand only.
An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon.
but, same page, the table:
UNARMED ATTACKS PRICE DMG (S) DMG (M) CRITICAL RANGE WEIGHT TYPE SPECIAL
Unarmed strike — 1d2 1d3 ×2 — — B NonlethalLIGHT MELEE WEAPONS
Battle aspergillum 5 gp 1d4 1d6 ×2 — 4 lbs. B See text
Brass knuckles 1 gp 1d2 1d3 ×2 — 1 lb. B Monk, see text
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My point is that the category doesn't matter.
For the sake of argument, I will concede that the unarmed strike isn't a light weapon. It is still "always considered a light weapon". That means that feats, spells and magic weapon properties that apply to light weapons would also apply to unarmed strikes. This applies for piranha strike(light weapon only) and for Transforming one light weapon into another. Not because the unarmed strike actually is a light weapon, but because it is considered a light weapon. Its an explicit statement written into the unarmed strike page.
Try using Magic weapon on it or making it masterwork.
The category matter and the two examples I made show that in this instance "always" isn't always. The piece you are using as a reference speak about the effort needed to use a weapon.LIGHT, ONE-HANDED, AND TWO-HANDED MELEE WEAPONS: This designation is a measure of how much effort it takes to wield a weapon in combat. It indicates whether a melee weapon, when wielded by a character of the weapon’s size category, is considered a light weapon, a one-handed
weapon, or a two-handed weapon.
The piece of text that you cite originally came from the last row of the Two weapon-fighting rules in the Combat section of the CRB:
if your off-hand weapon is light, the penalties are reduced by 2 each. An unarmed strike is always considered light.
for simplicity sake and word count it was repeated in the UE without giving it a special header but it is fairly clear that unarmed strikes are treated as light weapon only for some of the feats or effects you can get in the game, not for all of them.
Edit:
another example of the Unarmed attacks not being light weapons:
when you use unarmed attacks without Improved unarmed strike or a equivalent ability you provoke an attack of opportunity. If it was "always" a light weapon you wouldn't.
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By the way, they reduced the price of the AoMF.
See here.
So that "but, but, but the poor Monk" stuff is false.
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No DM will allow it.
It's not going to break the game, and it's ridiculously cool. Why wouldn't I allow it?
It deals regular damage to the guy's hit points. There, ruling made, the game continues.
I like how your example is something that can't even come up unless I choose to make it come up.
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No DM will allow it.It's not going to break the game, and it's ridiculously cool. Why wouldn't I allow it?
The way he seems to want it to work, it would never actually change the unarmed strike, but simply add another weapon.
You have a "Dagger hand", but still have the rest of you body to make unarmed strikes.Also, you create a situation in which you have "Dagger hands", "Dagger feet" "Dagger knees", "Dagger elbows" and a "Dagger head", all at the same time.
Add the Speed enchantment, and get 8 or more extra attacks, as you body is covered in multiple Speed Daggers.
Now, turn all those into Natural weapons, and who needs the Speed enchantment, when you have 9 or more Natural Attacks.
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Why do I suddenly want to build a Monk inspired by Gajeel(spelling?) From Fairy Tail using a Tattooed AoMF with the Transformative property...
His piercings transform into Spikes and Blades to deal alternate damage types!...
OK seeing as Unarmed Strike is its own category I am just going to have this combo as changing the Damage Type of the Attack. But only if they can describe it in a clever and unique way.
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It deals regular damage to the guy's hit points. There, ruling made, the game continues.
I like how your example is something that can't even come up unless I choose to make it come up.
So he get a weapon that can't be disarmed or sundered, but allow him to avoid the problems of using his fists against some target. Neat.