I'm just brain storming on an idea for a character who bounces around the combat arena. Mobility being the largest aspect to the character.
I'm taking this idea from a character that I built for the Champions RPG that was a fencer that had the main power of teleportation. He would teleport around the field of battle attacking where least expected. If he was knocked back or thrown it would also trigger his teleport ability so that he would vanish and could appear right behind his attacker to attack again and again.
While I'm aware that this isn't completely doable in Pathfinder, since it doesn't have nearly the freedom or flexibilty of rules that Hero does. Can anyone suggest ideas that would allow me to build something close to this idea, if it is even possible?
I've been looking at a race like Sylph, with their +5 movement racial ability. Barbarian and Monk can both get bonuses to movement. (I know movement isn't teleportation, but I'm trying to work withing the realm that is available). There is a cleric domain that will give extra movement, though I'm not sure if dipping cleric would be worth it. Unless I used it for say, an Inquisitor.
What do you all think? Any ideas? Is it doable?
Widj
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If we are really going all out, yeah dip into barbarian, monk, and inquisitor (travel domain), then stay in Synthesist summoner with a quadruped and just buy leg evolutions (half-elf for the extra evolution points). If every feat you take is fleet, that's 30+10+10+10+130+50=240. Whee!
I know that's almost certainly not what you are looking for, but there it is! If you take the run feat instead of fleet for one level, that's 1,175 feet in one round, which is 132 miles an hour, a little less than twice what a cheetah can do in short bursts.
I think I have found the perfect feat! The Dimension Agility line from Ultimate Combat book.
This looks perfect! However, it looks like in order to get the feats you either have to have Abundant Step or the ability to cast Dimension Door. Abundant Step looks to be a level 12 Monk ability. And to cast Dimension Door, you would need to either bee a level 7 Wizard or level 10 Bard. I can't see this really working for a Wizard though.
Can anyone thing of another way to get Dimension Door earlier? I think this could actually be something!
If you can convince your GM it's the same thing, you could use Shadowdancer (not legal by RAW, but I would allow it as a GM).
If all you want is movement, Dervish Dancer Bard gets a lot of movement and can move and attack, move some more, attack some more, so it worth looking into.
Gorik likes his mobility. Quite a lot.
This is a fairly high level build at 11 (and geared towards PvP), but an Oracle with the Wind mystery can grab Wings of Air at level 7 for 60 feet of flight with good maneuverability, which gets upgraded to 90 feet (perfect) at level 10. Usable in 1 minute increments for a number of minutes per day equal to your Oracle level.
Of course, that won't kick in 'til level 7, but it might be worth a consideration if the distinct lack of teleporting is not too big a deal.
-Darkwolf
At level 15 you can create heck of a teleportation master, using dimensional feats, spell perfection and echoing spell.
Just needs a bunch of feats to be pulled off (7-8)
Very possible to do what you are trying to do in Pathfinder. There are two ways.
At level 15 you can get spell prefection, choosing dimension door as the spell. This requires three other metamagic feats, one of which will be quicken spell. You will also need dimensional agility. Choose the other two metamagic feats as desired (Ex. still spell and silent spell). This will allow a quickened Dimensional Door and you can still preform other actions after the dimension door. Not a bad choice in a high level campaign if you wanted to play say a Sorc/Dragon Disciple.
The other way, and probably more in line with your concept is to pick up the entire Dimensional Agility feat chain - Dimensional Agility, Dimensional Assault, Dimensional Dervish, and Dimensional Savant. The fastest possible way I see to pick up this feat chain would be to go wizard 7, fighter 1, then move into the Eldritch Knight PrC. Start the feat chain at level 7 and you finish by level 13. It's alot of feats but you still have quite a few to play around with.
I'd go synth summoner.
And get echoing spell for infinit dim doors with spell perfection.
Built up a character up to level 13, 20 point buy. No items except a standard weapon. One thing I noticed when building him is Outflank. I wonder if it works the way I think it does with Dimensional Savant.
Dimensional Warrior
Human Eldritch Knight 5 Fighter 1 Wizard 7
CG Medium Humanoid (human)
Init +3; Senses Perception +13
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Defense
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AC 13, touch 13, flat-footed 10 (+3 Dex)
hp 86 (6d10+7d6+13)
Fort +8, Ref +7, Will +7
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft., shift (15') (8/day)
Melee Scimitar +13/+8 (1d6+5/18-20/x2)
Wizard Spells Prepared (CL 11):
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Statistics
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Str 10, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 20, Wis 10, Cha 8
Base Atk +9; CMB +9; CMD 22
Feats
Combat Reflexes (4 AoO/round)
Dervish Dance
Dimensional Agility
Dimensional Assault
Dimensional Dervish
Dimensional Savant
Fast Study
Martial Weapon Proficiency (Scimitar)
Outflank
Scribe Scroll
Weapon Finesse
Weapon Focus (Scimitar)
Weapon Specialization (Scimitar)
Skills Acrobatics +6, Appraise +9, Climb +4, Fly +11, Handle Animal +3, Intimidate +3, Knowledge (arcana) +21, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +10, Knowledge (engineering) +11, Knowledge (geography) +12, Knowledge (history) +12, Knowledge (local) +12, Knowledge (nature) +12, Knowledge (nobility) +12, Knowledge (planes) +12, Knowledge (religion) +12, Linguistics +9, Perception +13, Perform (dance) +1, Ride +7, Sense Motive +4, Spellcraft +21, Survival +4, Swim +4, Use Magic Device +12
Built up a character up to level 13, 20 point buy. No items except a standard weapon. One thing I noticed when building him is Outflank. I wonder if it works the way I think it does with Dimensional Savant.
** spoiler omitted **
Wow, that's pretty bad ass! Thanks for the write up. I'm going to start breaking it down and studying it. I'm fairly new to pathfinder so I have to figure it out per level. lol
Thanks everyone for all of the awesome suggestions and ideas! There are some great ones here!
Widj
Is Warrior ideal for the 1 level dip for the weapons prereq for Eldrich Knight or would Magus be just as good to get spellcombat?
armored hulk 5/ mobile fighter 11
armored hulk 5/ mobile fighter 11
I'm not sure what the "armored hulk" is in refrence to. Is that a prestige class?
OK, where I'm at with the idea so far is lvl 1 Magus, this gives me Spell Combat, which if I'm reading it correctly, will allow me to cast wizard spells that are on the Magus Spell List using the Spell Combat ability. Though, I think the ability to cast magus spells while wearing light armor will not effect the wizard spells. At which point, would it be better to stick with Fighter and use the bonus feat for Arcane Armor or forgo armor completely, stick with Magus for Spell Combat and use Mage Armor and Shield spells as regular spells cast before combat?
As for the Wizard, I was thinking that spec in Conjuration (Teleportation) would be ideal. This would allow a fast mobile teleport around the battle field and once at lvl 8 you could Dimension Door at will for quite a bit.
Opinions?
armored hulk 5/ mobile fighter 11I'm not sure what the "armored hulk" is in refrence to. Is that a prestige class?
barbarian archetype, essentially lets you fast move in heavy armor by level 5. Mobile fighter does the rest.
OK, where I'm at with the idea so far is lvl 1 Magus, this gives me Spell Combat, which if I'm reading it correctly, will allow me to cast wizard spells that are on the Magus Spell List using the Spell Combat ability. Though, I think the ability to cast magus spells while wearing light armor will not effect the wizard spells. At which point, would it be better to stick with Fighter and use the bonus feat for Arcane Armor or forgo armor completely, stick with Magus for Spell Combat and use Mage Armor and Shield spells as regular spells cast before combat?
As for the Wizard, I was thinking that spec in Conjuration (Teleportation) would be ideal. This would allow a fast mobile teleport around the battle field and once at lvl 8 you could Dimension Door at will for quite a bit.
Opinions?
Spell combat will not work with wizard spells like you want it to, you'll need magus arcana for that. IF you don't take any levels of wizard, and just take levels of magus you can always take arcana for the spells wizard has that you don't get as a magus but want.
In fact, im missing why do the wizard/fighter/ek thing at all? why not just stay magus?
I guess the main reason at this point for the wizard is to take the Conjuration (Teleportation) school so that eventually when the wizard get the dimension door at will it will work with the ideo of taking the Dimension Agility line of feats which the character would work off of.
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Though it means teleporting less frequently than a Wizard, being a straight Magus makes the character much more survivable and effective. With Spell Combat, you can cast Dimension Door and proceed to make all of your attacks; you cannot take further actions, but a full round action is only a single action, and you'll have already taken it. You dont even need the Dimensional Assault feat chain. Alternatively, you can be a Wizard with low BAB and d6 hit points, teleport behind an enemy, and get slaughtered. That idea sounds really neat, it's an extemely easy way to get killed.
Until you get Dimension Door on a Magus, you can cast Bladed Rush in your spell combat, which lets you move 30 ft. without provoking, make one attack, then make your full contingent. If you want mobility, Magi really are the way to go.
I agree with you, I'm just stuborn. =\ lol
I really love the school abilities for Conjuration (Teleportation) and it feels like there has to be a way to make that viable for melee combat!
At level 6 the Magus can take an ability to let them use spells from other classes with their abilities, but that seems like an awful lot of levels to invest just for that. However, a level 8 Wizard / lvl 6 Magus would be able to teleport at will and use spells from both classes with the Magus abilities.
14 levels just seems like a ton to invest. I'm willing to invest it, I'm just not sure if our campaign would ever see it since we are only at level 4. =\ lol
That being said, if we did make it to level 14, would it still be a viable combination? Once at 14, just stick with Magus from then on out or with Wizard from then on out?
Sorry if these seem like silly questions. However, I love the idea of the character and I would like to find out definitively if it is just a pipe dream or actually doable. Some of the feats that exist seem awesome but with no viable way to put into actual use!!!
Let me explain - the reason I made a wizard/EK was because it was the fastest possible way (that I was able to see) to get the dimensional agility feat chain. Magus can only start it at level 11, which means they finnish it at level 17. Completely doable though if you get into those higher levels.
Quoting myself
The fastest possible way I see to pick up this feat chain would be to go wizard 7, fighter 1, then move into the Eldritch Knight PrC. Start the feat chain at level 7 and you finish by level 13.
I then posted said build. Some of the feats even may look a little odd (weapon proficency simitar for example) until you look at the build as a whole and see that certain feats can only be picked at certain levels if your goal is to finnish the build as early of a level as possible.
A few additional notes - You'll want Keen Edge spell or Keen Weapon Enchant on your weapon. Failing that get improved critical as your next feat. Since you count as your own flanking buddy with Dimensional Savant and I believe that every crit you get with Outflank also gives you an additional attack. Almost sounds overpowered, but you did sink 5 feats in order to be able to do it, as well as the need to cast a spell. Haste spell is obviously very good with this build.
I'll post a level by level analysis if it is wanted.
hmmmm thanks for the enlightenment. So magus cant get into it until 11th because.... DD is a level 4 spell, they dont get level for until 11?
They get 4th level spells at 10th level, but a feat to spend at 11th level.
I'm currently using the dimensional agility feat line as in my pathfinder game. My GM allowed me to use my dimensional door ability from the travel domain to qualify for the feats. The ability to telepop around the battlefield while unleashing a full round of attacks is insane to say the least.
so 8th level cleric?
I really see this as something a shadow dancer SHOULD be able to qualify for.
I'll post a level by level analysis if it is wanted.
Actually, if you're still willing to do that, I would greatly apreciate it. I would love to see your breakdown of that build. I'm very interested in it! :D
Widj
so 8th level cleric?
I really see this as something a shadow dancer SHOULD be able to qualify for.
I agree. Currently, shadowjump is close, but no cigar :( "As if" dimension door spell is pretty darn close. But not the same as using Dimension Door spell
If someone in my games, played a Shadowdancer, I would allow it as a house rule.
Shadow Jump (Su): At 4th level, a shadowdancer gains the ability to travel between shadows as if by means of a dimension door spell. The limitation is that the magical transport must begin and end in an area with at least some dim light. A shadowdancer can jump up to a total of 40 feet each day in this way; this may be a single jump of 40 feet or four jumps of 10 feet each. Every two levels higher than 4th, the distance a shadowdancer can jump each day doubles (80 feet at 6th, 160 feet at 8th, and 320 feet at 10th). This amount can be split among many jumps, but each one, no matter how small, counts as a 10-foot increment.
Greg
Simple , problem solved. Inquisitor with the travel domain, has solo tactics, doesn't need the "ally"
Simple , problem solved. Inquisitor with the travel domain, has solo tactics, doesn't need the "ally"
I didn't think that the Inquisitor would get the spells from the cleric domains? However, a cleric with the travel domain gets Dimension Door as a spell.
8th level ability in the travel domain....
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Not sure if it helps now (considering the emphasis on Dim Door), but I once imagined an Elf Monk 18/Cleric 1 (Travel)/Oracle 1 (Flame) who could reach a base speed a 195 with 2 Eldritch Heritage chains : Elemental (Fire) and Efreeti (which conveniently share the same Skill Focus requirement).
Those chains also allow him to benefit from fun abilities (such as unleashing a blast of fire or turning into an efreeti)
^ I don't think you can take eldritch heritage twice, can you?
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My preferred build for this character type would be a Magus with the Spelldancer archetype, using Scimitar/Dervish Dance for the fighting style. You start out as a lightly armored, high dexterity, mobile fighter with Acrobatics as a class skill, and you never give up any of that. You gain additional mobility related powers at 1st, 5th, 7th, 9th, and 13th level.
Best of all, you can cast Dimension Door as a swift action at 9th level, allowing you to take the feat Dimensional Agility at 9th level and start using it immediately to teleport into position and attack on a single turn.
Not sure about that. I found nothing preventing you from taking the same feat twice, only that its benefits do not stack unless indicated otherwise.
I thought the general idea was that, if the feat doesn't note that you can gain it more than once, you can't usually take it more than once. That was the impression I got from some of the threads around here.
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Not sure about that. I found nothing preventing you from taking the same feat twice, only that its benefits do not stack unless indicated otherwise.I thought the general idea was that, if the feat doesn't note that you can gain it more than once, you can't usually take it more than once. That was the impression I got from some of the threads around here.
Actually, you can get the same feat multiple times from different sources. For example, a Cleric (Undead Lord)/Wizard (Necromancer)/Oracle of Bones can get Command Undead 3 times. But its effects do not stack per se. For example, you do not get 3 Charisma checks to assert control of a disputed undead.
You do get the additional Channels to command undead though (as they are part of the class features and not of the feat itself).
Sent a PM but I figured I'd post it here -
A couple of quick points - as I mentioned in the thread the build was meant to get dimensional agility and the rest of it's feats at the earliest possible level.
Second I wanted to build up the character so it's flavor evolves. Similar to many Magus builds you might find I choose Dervish Dance for some extra AC and Dex to damage. If you want to go Str that's fine too and you free up some feats.
Human Wizard 7, Fighter 1, EK 5
20 point buy
level 13 stats, feats
Str - 8
Dex - 16 (+1 level 4)
Con - 12
Int - 20 (+2 human, +1 level 8, +1 level 12)
Wis - 10
Cha - 8
Speciality school - Conjuratioin (Teleportation School)
Opposition Schools - Necromancy, Divination (feel free to change as desired)
Feats and Abilities
1) Wizard level 1
feat - Maritial Weapon Proficiency (Scimitar)
feat (human) - Weapon Finesse
ability - Arcane Bond (Scimitar)
2) Wizard level 2
3) Wizard level 3
feat - Dervish Dance
4) Wizard level 4
5) Wizard level 5
feat - Combat Reflexes
feat (wizard) - Fast Study (Alternative - Still Spell if you want to use armor)
6) Wizard level 6
7) Wizard level 7
feat - Dimensional Agility
8) Fighter level 1
feat - Weapon Focus (Scimitar)
9) Eldritch Knight 1
feat (EK) - Outflank
feat - Dimensional Assault
10) Eldritch Knight 2
11) Eldritch Knight 3
feat - Dimensional Dervish
12) Eldritch Knight 4
13) Eldritch Knight 5
feat (EK) - Weapon Specialization (Scimitar)
feat - Dimensional Savant
I don't think outflank does work that way. The text for outflank specifies "you and an ally."
If your GM lets you count as your own ally as well as yourself for a teamwork feat, then abuse it for all it's worth. Throw Precise Strike in there, too for another d6 of damage each time.
With Dimensional Savant you count as your own ally for flanking. I think it works but if a DM ruled otherwise I'd accept it, but only after mentioning it takes (5!) feats for it to come into play.