Widjit's page

Rejoining a game with some old friends. They are all at level 12 when I'm joining in. I hopped in today and i was taken back by the power of their characters. A barbarian hitting for 40+ per swing, 100+ on a crit. A synthesist summoner who is a full caster and also a melee brute, while also being the face with bluff / diplomacy rolls averaging 30+. We also have a rogue/witch and a straight monk. I was thinking at this point a divine caster would be the only way I could really get in and be productive.

I'm thinking an oracle so I can get the benefits of divine casting but also bring some unique utility with the oracles mysteries. Initially I'm thinking a Human Oracle of Time.

I've come here to ask everyone's advice on the best way to play a fun RP oracle without feeling left behind by what seem to be massively over powered characters.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated! I've read over the guides for the oracle, and while they have helped me get a general idea of what to do, I'm having problems focusing them down into a finished character. He will be level 12, 25pt stats, and 22k gold to buy stuff with.

Ideas?

Also, does anyone know of any irc channels or anything that have active pathfinder chatting?

Too many ideas, game next weekend and I think I've settled on my character. I'm re-joining a game at lvl 11. We have a rogue/wich, synthesis summoner, and a fighter.

I'm going with a Monk (Sensei)/ Druid. 4 levels Monk and the rest will be druid. I know it's not optimal but it's going off a picture as inspiration for the build.

http://orig00.deviantart.net/3012/f/2012/036/c/1/pathfinder__herald_of_iror i_by_mikeypetrov-d4os4xc.jpg

So far this is what I have.... Level 1 (Monk 1)- Feat: Improved Grapple Monk Bonus Feat: Snapping Turtle Style Sensei Advice: Inspire Courage (Replaces Flurry of Blows, Fast Movement, and Improved Evasion) Stunning Fist Unarmed Strike

Level 2 (Monk 2)- Insightful Strike (Replaces Evasion and Lvl 2 Bonus Feat)

Level 3 (Monk 3)- Still Mind Maneuver Training Snapping Turtle Clutch

Level 4 (Monk 4)- Ki Pool (Ki Strike) Slow Fall 20' Unarmed Damage 1d8

Level 5 (Druid 1)- Level Feat: Boon Companion Animal Companion: Snapping Turtle (Level 5 With Boon Companion, Bodyguard Archetype)

I would like to focus on buffing the turtle and companions and keeping my grappling as a defensive measure. I'm going to ask the DM if I can take the feat to give the turtle eidilon boons and give him reach (even though it's not allowed) because I can totally see a giant snapping turtle shooting his head out and biting people.

Any suggestions for levels 6-11?

I'm probably going to take Snapping Turtle Clutch as one of the fest but I'm drawing blanks for other ideas to fit in with the theme of this old dwarven monk riding around on his turtle telling people what they are doing wrong. lol

Would your GM be unwilling to do away with the silly "evil" element of animate dead, or are you completely locked into rules? You could consider the spiritualist or death druid.

The comment was made to "Be careful lest you become hunted by the Society." So I'm thinking it's all evil.

We are only eligible for Paizo material.

Reading up on all the stuff linked so far, thanks everyone. :D

Raising the dead is eeevil! Bad necromancer, bad!

So I've been told over and over.

I had the awesome idea of making a necromancer that calls for the bodies of the slain to find glory once more in battle! Nope... still evil. :sadface:

There's a feat that let's you add skeletons to your summon monster (or animal?) list, is that still evil?

I would love to find a way to make a character that isn't evil but still falls along that theme of summoning the spirits of fallen warriors to fight once again for glory. Or for battle... or whatever gets their rocks off.

Any ideas?

So I have to have this character ready for tomorrow. I think I'm good with mainy bieng alchemist with a 3 level dip in Unchained Rogue. However, I wanted to ask one last question. Would it be better to do away with the sneak attack damage and make this into more of a monk character? Would that work with the natural attacks I want to do?

I've looked at some of the styles and some of them do seem to work with natural attacks. But how well? Are there archetypes that would do well with this?

Thanks for all the input so far. I'm enjoying the idea of a ratfolk who wants to prove to the bigs that his race is a race that can stand up for themselves. They don't have to hide in the sewers. He wants to perfect his fighting without the use of weapons. The alchemist was good with creating the mutagens to increase stats, but I like the more natural evolution of a monk.

This is my idea to level 5. Though I'm thinking that after levvel 5 the rest of my levels will go into alchemist. This is mainly as to not step too much on the toes of the rogue that is already in the party. This character will be a front line fighter using his dexterity and not his strength to fight.

Eventually I would like to get Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists as to let my use my dexterity for damage with my natural attacks (if I read this correctly).

And weapon finesse lets me use my agility for all of my attack rolls since it works with natural attacks. This gives me 4 natural attacks around and as long as I'm standing in the square with my companion, they all get the sneak attack damage bonus.

Am I missing anything here? I'm thinking this is what I'm going to go with for now instead of the caster. I'll save that for next game I think. That will give me a lot more time to do a better job with it since game is this weekend. :D

Now to figure out what to get with the 3k starting gold I get...

Apparently there is another Alchemist archetype that gives sneak attack damage as well....

And this one could be great for making drugs... but would it mesh well with the swarm monger?

Eldrich Alchemist

OK, so I think I'm spreading myself too thin here. I'm loving the idea of this ratfolk but I want to be a drug dealer with rats and fight with my natural attacks.

I think I need to focus down on one or the other.

Either some sort of spell caster focusing on the swarm / rat companions which would make me more of a caster and less of a front line hero.

Or I need to focus on the natural attack melee aspect of be more of a slayer or rogue/alchemist.

If I go druid I can focus on that awesome archetype I was shown, the Swarm Monger.

Swarm Monger

If I do that I would definitely want to incorporate the drug dealer aspect into it. Would that be doable as a single class or should I look at dual classing as a watch or alchemist to add more flavor to brewing poisons and drugs?

I'm like the idea of the melee I already posted, I'll show it again here:

From this point, any suggestions? I could really go either way. The idea of a little rat going a%&*+%+ with his teeth and claws is amusing, but a rat in the shadows selling drugs could be a ton of fun roleplaying and trying to not get my groupo in trouble selling the drugs (or getting them addicted to them).

nicholas storm wrote:

The sneak attack for slayer and vivisectionist won't stack at all. So I would not mix those classes.

This is very dependent upon whether Sneak Attack is considered a redundant ability. The jury on that is very much out.

OP: It's difficult to say exactly how they interact because the Vivisectionist archetype uses wording to facilitate multiclassing with rogue that assumes that all sneak attack granting classes follow the same progression whereas they do not. There are some who read a clause in hybrid class rules (Slayer is a hybrid class) that states that redundant abilities between hybrid and a parent class do not stack when those two classes multiclass together and in this case since the vivisectionist sort of counts as a rogue that might prevent stacking. Personally I would count the vivisectionist levels you take as rogue levels, determine the sneak attack damage and then directly add the slayer bonus sneak attack damage as it follows a different progression but it's not up to me. The best thing to do is ask your GM how they think these abilities interact as they are the final arbiter in the matter.

I'll be talking with him about it this weekend. However, if that doesn't work, it looks like the Wild Fang druid archetype wouldn't have any issues with working with the Vivisectionist. Though it bab I guess would be worse, it could still be a fun build. As this is more to work with a theme than to min/max the character.

Vivisection / Slayer.... here's a question. If I start off 3 levels slayer, that get's me 1d6 sneak attack. Then 1 level Alchemist, would that then make it 2d6 sneak attack right off and continuing like that?

Alchemist states:
At 1st level, a vivisectionist gains the sneak attack ability as a rogue of the same level. If a character already has sneak attack from another class, the levels from the classes that grant sneak attack stack to determine the effective rogue level for the sneak attack’s extra damage dice (so an alchemist 1/rogue 1 has a +1d6 sneak attack like a 2nd-level rogue, an alchemist 2/rogue 1 has a +2d6 sneak attack like a 3rd-level rogue, and so on).

So, from then on out the Alchemist level and Slayer level would be counted together and used on the rogue's chart to determine sneak attack damage?

I'll look into the Leyline Witch. I haven't read that one yet, thanks!

Should I avoid the Witch altogether and go Alchemist / (rogue ? Slayer?) for the stacking Sneak Attack damage? I would lose the hair natural attack but I can't see a reason other than that for the Witch. The Alchemist gets me the drug creation plus the archetype vivisectionist gets me increased Sneak Attack damage.

Level 1 Rogue (1)
Weapon Finesse (effects all my natural attacks)
Sharp Claw (Level 1 Feat)
Scurrying Swarmer (We use hero points so this free feat taking Anti-Hero)
+1d6 Sneak Attack

Level 2 Alchemist Visectionist (1)
Throw Anything

Level 3 Rogue (2)
+2d6 Sneak Attack
Evasion
Rogue: Fast Stealth

Level 4 Rogue (3)
Danger Sense +1
Finesse Training: Claws
Feat... ?

Level 5 Alchemist (2)
+3d6 Sneak Attack
Discovery: Bleeding Attack
Poison Resistance +2
Poison Use

I'll have the use of 2 x Claws, 1 x Tailblade.

I would need the feat Sharpteeth to have a bite attack but if I'm reading it right I can take two traits to get a bit attack from adopted orc / tusked. This would get me my 1d3 bite without having to take the feat.

Thus starting off I would get 1d3 bite, 2 x 1d4 Claws, 1d2 Tail. Each of these would be able to have sneak attack damage if I'm standing in the same square with a companion.

I should mention that I'm starting off at level 3 and we level up at the end of each session instead of worrying about xp. (We only play once a month,)

Ratfolk Rogue / Witch Drug Dealer. This could be so much fun. =D

OK, please correct me if I'm wrong.... natural attacks you can use them all in a round, right?

So, if i had the feat for a ratfolk that turns his claws into 1d3 attacks then he can bite, claw, claw, (tail if he has the tail knife that acts as a natural attack) all at level 1? If he was a white haired witch he could hair, claw, claw, bite, tail... am I reading that correctly?

Secondly, if he's a white haired witch he can grapple with his hair (her hair?) and not considered grappled, so next round could bite, claw, claw, tail attack as if not grappled?

My mind is bouncing all over the place, I'm currently looking at witches and possible witch/rogue if possible. White Haired Witch / Veneficus Witch + Rogue?

I'm really digging the Wild Fang and Slayer ideas.
We currently have a rogue, summoner, monk, and fighter.

The summoner seems to have heals covered though using a wand.

Oooo there's a feat that will let you swarm with a non-ratfolk person. And use swarming feats with them ass well!

Ooo nature fang druid sounds interesting. I just saw that you can use a tail blade as a natural weapon, plus the feat with the claws and you can start off with three natural attacks (if I'm reading that right). Maybe druid monk? I'll have to read up on if the monk's abilities can be used with natural attacks. This could also be super cool. I don't even know what the alchemist is so I'm going to read up on that as well!

I'm looking for ideas for a Ratfolk character that somehow uses rats as his tools. Dire Rat mount? Swarm of rats attacking? Spying with rats? I haven't played PF in a looong time so am fairly out of touch but the DM is allowing any Paizo material in the game.

I was looking at a rogue as there seem to be some cool feats, but the best ones seem to be beast traits which I doubt he will allow. Like slow terror and scent of fear. lol

Maybe Monk / Druid (or ranger?) with Sharp Claw and Burrow? Druid could maybe get me access to the rats and Monk for some good uses for the Sharp Claws?

Well, thanks for any and all ideas!

We can't see anywhere in the rules PFS if you can. The DM says you can't because there is the threat of falling. Have there been any official rulings on this?

Thanks~!

I'd disagree with many of the Ninja class and go Stygian Slayer. You'll get the ability to become invisible but with an arguably more accurate flavor.

It's for a PFS game so I'm not sure if that is available to me. Where is the Stygian Slayer from?

Thanks!

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/c-d/cape- slashing

Something to look into getting!

I'm not finding any stats on the Pata but it's listed in sCoreForge but I would need to take another feat to be able to use it.

Looking for an alternative to that to save the feat if possible.

Love this idea so far. Working up an initial build right now. :D

Hrm... I assume we're going for more flavor than function

You're probably going to want to see if you can use a Pata, that will mimic the blade he has on his hand. Otherwise you can try going for Knife-Master Rogue archtype and use a Punching Dagger.

Take the Bleeding Attack Rogue talent to replicate his Q.

To replicate his bladed cloak, the closest thing I know of is the Slashing Cape in Ultimate Equipment, this will let you attack everyone within 5 feet as a full-round action (kinda mimics his ult...).

For Rake, you can take Quick Draw and throw returning weapons just as a ranged back up.

Not sure how to mimic his gap closer, other than just using Acrobatics for tumbling.

That's all I got.

That's more than I had so far! Though I'm thinking the Shadowdancer might be a good way to eventually get his invisibilty ult by hiding in plain site!

I'm going to play my first PFS game Sunday and was wondering if anyone had any ideas on how to build Talon from League of Legends? I'm starting at lvl 1 obviously, but we plan on taking the game as far as we can. Thanks!

My druid in the campaign I'm in currently is taking a couple levels dip in unarmed fighter to eventually be able to use martial fighting styles while in beast form.

Wow, had not seen those. How do they interact with a crossblooded sorcerer?

[edit] I ask because I think crossblooded with Orc bloodline could add some major benefits to that build...

Unfortunately I'm already using the crossblooded for Empyreum and Efreeti.

Robe of Arcane Heritage.

This

I just don't know. regaining 1hp 2/day just doesn't seem worth a feat slot for Fire God's Blessing IMO. Granted you'll be able to use it on any fire spells you cast but still... the more you level up the worse this feat is going to become. Toughness would serve you far better, I think.

I'm not going to argue that. You are probably correct. However, I'm not going for an optimized build here. I'm going for a theme I have in my head of something that would be really fun to play and that really works with the theme.

Eventually it would probably look something like this:

At this point I would probably stop the progression of the Sorcerer since he has his Efreeti form and continue on as a monk. Get the entire Efreeti line of combat style feats and probably Dragon as well.

While he's not super powerful or even incredibly optimized, he would be a TON of fun to role play.

Eh, that's not necessarily needed since elemental fist works just as well, and other fire based spells can work. First draft!

"Male Monk 1/ Sorcerer 1
Init +4; Senses Perception +9, Darkvision 12 sqr
==DEFENSE==
AC 16, touch 16, flat-footed 14 (+2 dex, +4 monk bonus)
hp 8 (1d6+1d8+2)
SR 0
Fort +3, Ref +4, Will +6
Defensive Abilities AC Bonus (PFCR 57), Fire Ray (PFUM 67)
==OFFENSE==
Spd 6 sqr/x4
Melee Unarmed Strike +3 (1d6+3) 20/x2
Special Attacks Unarmed Strike (PFCR 59)
==STATISTICS==
Str 16, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 18, Cha 8
BAB +0, CMB +3, CMD +19
Feats Efreeti Style (PFUC 99 - 100), Elemental Fist (PFAPG 158), Eschew Materials (PFCR 123), Fire God's Blessing (PFCo: OoG 25), Improved Unarmed Strike (PFCR 128)
Skills Acrobatics +6, Disable Device +7, Knowledge (planes) +5, Perception +9
SU Bloodline (PFCR 71), Bloodline Powers (0), Elemental Fist (PFAPG 112), Sorcerer Spells (PFCR 70-71)
MC Bloodline Arcana (0), Eschew Materials (PFCR 71)
Traits Nimble Fingers, Keen Mind (Religion: Brigh) (PFCo: FoB 20), Reactionary (Combat) (PFAPG 328)
Languages Common, Orc

"

Widjit wrote:

Possibly monk / sorcerer though the stats for that would suck.

You could choose the Empyreal sorcerer blood line which uses Wisdom in Place of Charisma. Why not go with crossblooded Orc/Empyreal?

You, my good sir, are a genius!

Wow, that's great, thanks guys. :) I had no idea that you could get it at level one. I'm contemplating a half orc monk with elemental fist (fire) and the Fire God's Blessing Feat. Possibly monk / sorcerer though the stats for that would suck.

There has to be a better way than being level 8?

Thanks!
Widj

Nice, looks good! Good luck on your campaign. : )

PS: You know that Enlarge Person doesn't stack with Wild Shape, right? Though it's still awesome to have for early levels.

I actually didn't know that, thanks for pointing it out! At least I can still use it before lvl 5 and enjoy the fruits until then!

Thanks for all of your advice so far Reynard. :) Have till Saturday till i need my final product. Luckily it only has to be level 1 for then! This is what I have so far.

"KARA'ZHUUN
Female Druid 1
Init +8; Senses Perception +6
==DEFENSE==
AC 14, touch 12, flat-footed 12 (+2 armor, +2 dex)
hp 13 (1d8+2)
SR 0
Fort +4, Ref +2, Will +4
Armor Leather, Light
==OFFENSE==
Spd 6 sqr/x4
Melee Quarterstaff +4 (1d6+6) 20/x2 monk, double
Melee Unarmed Strike +4 (1d3+4) 20/x2
Melee Longspear +0 (1d8+6) 20/x3 reach
Ranged Longbow +2 (1d8) 20/x3
==STATISTICS==
Str 18, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 10
BAB +0, CMB +4, CMD +16
Feats Armor Proficiency (LIGHT / MEDIUM) (PFCR 118), Improved Initiative (PFCR 127), Shield Proficiency (PFCR 133), Toughness (PFCR 135)
Skills Climb +8, Knowledge (geography) +4, Knowledge (nature) +6, Perception +6, Survival +8
SQ Nature Bond (Domain Powers - Plant (Growth)) (Domain Powers - Plant (Growth)) (PFCR 50)
MC Druid Bonus Languages (PFCR 50), Druid Spells (PFCR 49), Druid Spontaneous Casting (PFCR 49), Forbidden Spell Alignment (PFCR 41, 49), Nature Sense (PFCR 50)
Traits Beast of the Society (Magic: Druid) (PFCh: FcGd 63), Reactionary (Combat) (PFAPG 328)
Languages Common, Druidic
"

And there we have the start of a wonderful adventure!

OK, ALL this being said... Is the unarmed fighter the best route to go, or would the MoMS Monk be just as good of a route as well as taking advantage of the Wisdom (Only 14, but wasted on the Fighter but not the Monk, right)?

I've been looking at some of the Styles... Panther and Dragon being the two that seem the neatest, could those be used in animal form with Feral Combat?

Sweet, ok, thanks. :) There are so many aspects to pathfinder that I still have to take in. SO many different races, classes, and combinations therein.

Is the Summoner class the best summoner? What about for CRB classes only? Druid with a Shaman totem archetype or straight Wizard?

Remember that the list of abilities in Beast Shape 1 is pretty limited. You mostly get better senses, better movement, and the potential for more natural attacks. It's fine to use Dragon Style, charge to get in close, and hit with a Str-boosted unarmed attack, then just do a full attack on the next round. It's not until you get to Beast Shape II (druid 6) that you really start to miss Feral Combat Training.

If I were you, I would do this:
Unarmed Fighter 1
Druid 4
Unarmed Fighter 3
Druid 4
Whatever X

That way, you get IUS and Dragon Style at level 1, which will be your primary combat style for the first four levels. At 5th level you get Wild Shape and can do the hybrid strategy I described above. You can use the bonus feats from Fighter to help you get Weapon Focus, Feral Combat Training, and Shaping Focus in a timely fashion. Finally, you can take Martial Versatility, at which point the build really comes into its own: you will be able to apply Feral Combat Training and Weapon Focus to any natural attack. After that, you can take the remaining 4 levels of Druid to max out your wildshape, and then go anywhere you want - Druid for higher level spells, Unarmed Fighter for better grappling, Monk for flurry, AC bonus (less important now that you can afford Wild armor), Stunning Fist, and other abilities, or something else entirely.

My biggest problem with not taking druid at level 1 would be not having access to the Beast of Society trait which seems like it is a HUGE help for earlier beast shapes since it doubles how long I can be in it.

The shaman still only gives any form of advantage at levels 6 and 7. If you play by RAI, that's never enough to make up for not having any wildshape at levels 4 and 5.

Also, at level 6 non-shamans already have the best multipurpose combat form available (dire tiger with pounce), so any advantage the shaman gets only applies in nonstandard combat situations (those where being huge is a good thing, basically).

I think, after reading more into it, that I'm going to have to actually agree with you. It just means I'll have to find some filler feats that won't be useless until I can actually get the main ones that I will need for my build.

I think it's not a legal build. because shamans don't geet...

RAI you are correct. RAW you are incorrect. Our gaming group isn't RAW or RAI so it is completely legal with them. :)

What you can do is human druid 4 fighter 16 using Martial Versatility.

UF 1: unarmed strike, dragon style, weapon focus (unarmed)
Druid 1
Druid 2: maybe power attack
Druid 3
Druid 4: shaping focus
UF 2: weapon focus (any natural)
UF 3: feral combat (same as last level)
UF 4: martial versatility (feral combat)

And then you can take any effect that augments unarmed strike and apply it to everything in the unarmed weapon group, which includes all natural attacks. Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, and Weapon Training are all effects and all of them augment unarmed strikes.

I think it's worth eventually grabbing stunning fist for dragon ferocity and possibly elemental fist as well. Dragon Roar probably isn't worth it, though.

Great ideas, I love Martial Versatility! That is perfect! However, I would really like to try to do 8 levels in druid to get the most of the shape changing that a druid can do! I also want to take Druid lvl 1 since it fits the color of the character I want to play.

That being said, I'm thinking this might be a good progression.

Lion Shaman Druid / Unarmed Fighter

1. Druid 1 : Unarmed Strike / Toughness
2. Druid 2 : Totem Transformation (bite [1d6] and 2 claws [1d4] for a Medium shaman, +2 bonus on CMB on grapple checks)
3. Fighter 1 : Unarmed Strike / Dragon Style / Retrain Unarmed Strike to Weapon Focus (Bite or Claws) / Feral Combat Training
4. Druid 3 : +1 Strength
5. Druid 4 : Shaping Focus
6. Fighter 2 : Feat?
7. Fighter 3 : Feat?
8. Fighter 4 : Martial Versatility

I still need to figure out some best of feats for this progression. I also need to decide if I want to focus on the claws and two attacks with them and working towards rending claws and rending fury line of feats, or possibly focusing more on the bite instead as one big attack and working down the vital strike line of feats.

What do you all think so far?

I think you also have to pick a natural weapon. So, if you went Weapon Focus (bite) and you take a form with a bite and 2 claw attacks, only the bite attack gets the bonus.

I was actually just going over that and trying to pick which forms I would most likely use the most often. Dire Tiger seemed to be the big one for Beast Form II, and Deinonychus for Beast Form I. Though the Deinonychus seems kinda cheesy just to get 4 attacks, I would probably try to find something close to that strength that would be in the jungle.

Jaguar seems like it would be a good choice with Melee 2 claw +7 (1d4+4), bite +8 (1d8+4 plus grab). Dire Tiger with Melee 2 claws +18 (2d4+8 plus grab), bite +18 (2d6+8/19–20 plus grab). Claws being the main for both of them and thus a good attack to take the Weapon Focus for.

You could get the STR bonus to an unarmed attack, but not a natural attack. So if you change into a bear, you could charge and attack with your paw (adding the STR from dragon style), but you could NOT add the extra strength while attacking with your claw (which has the Grab special ability).

Don't worry about starting with a low-ish wisdom. If you're getting to high levels, your starting scores matter less. The real problem is that Shaping Focus, Weapon Focus (natural attack), and Feral Combat Training can ALL only be taken after you get wild shape, and none of them can be had with Monk bonus feats.

Unless... Have you picked a race yet? It might be very wise to choose a race with natural claws for this build. In fact, a Tengu is treated as having improved unarmed strike with his natural weapons (and has a wisdom bonus to boot), meaning that if you picked a full BAB class at 1st level you could do this:

1 Weapon Focus (claw)
3 Dragon Style
5 Feral Combat Training
7 Shaping Focus
...
which really frees up some options - you might not need to splash Monk or Unarmed Fighter at all. (Barbarian is nice, or I guess in this case Birdbarian.)

Otherwise, Unarmed Fighter with any claw-possessing race is probably best after all.

Unarmed Fighter 1 (Improved Unarmed Strike, Dragon Style, Weapon Focus (claw))
Druid 1
Druid 2 Feral Combat Training
Druid 3
Druid 4 Shaping Focus

and then whatever else you want. Druids could actually make pretty darn good grapplers, since size is an important factor there.

Thanks for the ideas! Unfortunately, for the most part, we can only use the Core Rule Book to start off with with the exception of traits, archetypes, and spells that we get OK'd in advanced. This is because the DM is new to DMing pathfinder so he wants to take things a bit slow, though as he gets more comfortable, more Paizo sources will open up (which is why I can go outside the CRB as I level.)

Otherwise I would have been all over the Cat People race. However, since that's not an option, I chose human to gain access to the extra feat to try to help out with the number of feats that I'm going to need to make this happen.

I've gotten it OKd so that if I take Unarmed Strike at lvl 1 then get it for free at lvl 2 with Unarmed Fighter that I can retrain it to something else. Then I could probably train in Natural Attack? Or can I not train that because I don't have one yet...

sCoreForge is failing me big time on this build. lol

Actually, that last one doesn't work anyways. I can't take weapon focus at first level as a druid since it requires BAB +1.

By RAW, I believe you can make "unarmed attacks" while beast shaped, since it's nonspecific as to which part of the body you use. However, to use Dragon Style with a natural attack, you will need Feral Combat Training. That means that if you want to use natural attacks to get trip, grapple, pounce, etc., you're going to need Feral Combat Training. (It also means you're going to have to pick one natural attack to focus on - probably bite or claws.)

Druid 8/Unarmed Fighter 12 could indeed be pretty good, but keep in mind that a lot of Unarmed Fighter's abilities are geared for grappling. If that's not your style, I'd go Monk/Druid - there's a lot of synergy there, and flurrying with, say, an Allosaurus bite is pretty darn nasty. You also get better saves, better AC (since you don't get armor while wild shaped, but you do get the monk AC bonus), faster move speed, and a ki pool. Granted you can't pick up Dragon Style quite as a bonus feat, but you can still get it at level 3 with IUS and 3 ranks in acrobatics.

The druid is great to keep in mind. I'm wondering if it is worth it though since I didn't plan on taking my wisdom over 14 and I was going to focus on strength instead. Would it be better if I was going to try the month path that I increase my wisdom higher in order to take advantage of the monk more since I would be taking 12 levels in it and they seem pretty dependent on their wisdom for a lot of their abilities?

I guess I'll also have to look into getting feral combat training regardless of which route I go.

OK, from reading Dragon Style, it looks like I could still get the bonuses it gives to saving throws, charges, running, and withdrawing. I just couldn't get the strength bonus while attacking in animal form? For that I would need to get the Feral Combat Training.

That being the case, a slight adjustment to leveling might be:

Level 1 Druid: Toughness, Weapon Focus (Natural Weapon?).
Level 2 Unarmed Fighter: Improved Unarmed Strike, Dragon Style
Level 3 Druid: Feral Combat Training
Level 4 Druid: +1 Str
Level 5 Druid: Shaping Focus

I'm not sure if this would work since I don't actually have any natural weapons until level 4 druid? if not, then possibly take the shaman archetype to give me claws as a level 2 druid in which case it should work.

Nope, monks are special as far as RAW is concerned.

prototype00

Then I was correct in saying that I wouldn't be able to use unarmed strike in beast mode as a druid / unarmed fighter? :)

So here is the description of a monk's unarmed strike from the core rulebook:

Quote:

At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monk's attacks may be with fist, elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may make unarmed strikes with his hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A monk may thus apply his full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all his unarmed strikes.

Now of the four limbs listed above, some argument might be made that most animals can't make a fist. But all the other striking surfaces every quadrupedal animal will have.

If a monk is wildshaped into another creature, they can kung fu with the best of them (and I do mean best, monk/druid is one of the most powerful multiclasses in the game).

For edification, I include the following:

Bear Fisted Fighting

prototype00

Is that all the same for the unarmed fighter though? It says he gets improved unarmed strike but it doesn't include the rest of that that I saw.

Widjit wrote:

Especially since I want to eventually be a hand to hand beast in beast mode. ;) (hand to hand just meaning no weapon, not actual unarmed strike since I know you can't do that as an animal.)

Where are you deriving this ruling from?

prototype00

Again, going off what one of the guys in my group told me. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I tend to take what the guys in my group tell me at face value since I'm fairly new to Pathfinder still. :)