| 2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Since I'm getting tired of arguing this point, I figured I'd post it and see if I can get a consensus and/or official ruling.
Aspect of the Falcon (or the bracers with the same effect) gives crossbows and bows a crit range of 19-20 and a crit multiplier of x3, and specifically states that the effects of the spell will not stack with effects that increase your crit range, like Improved Critical.
However, a friend keeps arguing that if you have a crossbow, you can still use Improved Critical, because it's not STACKING, it's OVERLAPPING.
His argument is that the crossbow will have two crit ranges, 17-20 x2 and 19-20 x3, both active at the same time. So that if you crit on a 19-20 it'll give you x3, and if you crit on a 17-18 it'll give you a x2.
My argument is that a) the spell specifically states that it doesn't stack, and b) there's no provision in the Pathfinder rules anywhere for a single attack roll to have more than one crit range.
Opinions?
That spell/item does two different things to two different types of weapon.
It increases the threat range on bows to 19-20. That is all it does for bows, as they already have a crit multiplier of X3. So there is no question with them. It essentially grants the feat Improved Critical: (any kind of) Bow.
What it does for crossbows is different and distinct, however. It increases the crit multiplier on crossbows to x3, but does not increase their threat range, as they already have one of 19-20. There is no existing feat that does this in Pathfinder. However, as it states that this effect does not stack with Improved Critical, it is clear that this x3 crit multiplier does not apply to any range other than 19-20. It is NOT clear that it DECREASES the user's proficiency with crossbows if he does have Improved Critical: Lt. Crossbow (for instance). I think your friend's interpretation is correct. When using a crossbow, the spell or item would increase the multiplier on 19-20 criticals to x3. The user would not lose his normal ability to make x2 criticals on rolls of 17-18.
Looked at another way, if there were a feat that allowed someone to increase the crit multiplier by 1 (the effect this spell has with crossbows), and someone had taken this hypothetical feat with longbows, it would be unreasonable to assert that this spell, clearly meant to augment normal skill levels, would replace that x4 with a x3. Instead, the PC would get the x4 on a crit roll of 20 and get the x3 on the expanded crit roll of 19.
There are some FAQ requests on this thread: Aspect of the falcon and crossbow if anyone wants to contribute.
I think those are two separate effects.
one effect changes the x2 multiplier to x3
the other effect changes the 19-20 threat range to 17-20
there is no stacking at all,
in fact be that player gets the best of both worlds.
17-20 x3
this is crossbow only of course.
RAW talks about "Stacking" I have never seen a rule about "Overlapping". Make him show you the rule that covers "overlapping" if he can't I would make him pick one or the other.
I agree with Blue_The_Wolf. I think a crossbow wielding character with Improved Critical would get 17~20 x3. Crossbows are much worse than longbows anyway, so this doesn't break anything.
Personally I always make it a point to have the player show me the rule that specifically allows an action. Otherwise the answer is no you can't do that. Don't let the player say 'show me where it says I can't". There are an infinite number of things that are not in the rulebooks so the better decision is to only allow those that are in the books.
I completely disagree with this stance. From my point of view, it it's not expressly forbidden, then the general assumption is that it's allowed. Pretty much like real world laws.
Imagine if they had to list everything you can do! "you're allowed to walk", "you are allowed to walk backwards", "you are allowed to hold your breath", "you're allowed to eat cake", "you're allowed to say your own name", "you're allowed to blink"... You get my point.
Of course, some cases require common sense "It doesn't say I can't fly.", "well, it does say you have no Fly speed."
I would still allow the overlapping...
if both his rolls were 19 and above it would qualify for the x3
if any of the rolls didnt make it over 18 then he only gets the x2...
i wouldnt even make him choose ahead of time.
Works for me.
I know I'll get blasted for this, but entering the two into HeroLab grants 17-20 / x3 :-D
wait... which random player?
^_^
ps. I was right
^ readies blast shield