As above, the second you detach a part from your body and use at as a weapon, it becomes an improvised weapon and no longer part of your body. The whole scenario is irrelevant.
You start this as a joke it seems like, but want to defend it like it is some kinds rule you should be allowed to do.
I assure you, this was not started in jest. I have a player who is very rules lawyery and not very good at accepting, "I'm the GM, and so the final arbiter of the rules" who wants to use this combo with a Tetori monk to grapple enemies at range. I started this thread as a way to detail exactly why this would not work for him.
He was even trying to say that he could headbutt someone and then carry his head around just fine. :/
Man what the
Come on, guys.
Seriously.
Actually, one of the main reasons I'm taking this seriously is it could make for a very intriguing bad guy if I could just find a rule that could make it WORK.
So far I can't. :(
Going over some of the peculiar uses of the rules I've seen in pre-made campaigns I wouldn't think some of the writers at Paizo would even hate this.
It'd probably have to be some form of Flesh Golem and I'd probably have to make some kind of magical chain that channels the magic (aka, a special GM approved magic item. I know, BOO, HISS). It's a lot less fun when you have to throw in a lot of GM'ness to get an idea to work, but this doesn't appear to work any other way.
Actually, one of the main reasons I'm taking this seriously is it could make for a very intriguing bad guy if I could just find a rule that could make it WORK.
So far I can't. :(
Going over some of the peculiar uses of the rules I've seen in pre-made campaigns I wouldn't think some of the writers at Paizo would even hate this.
It'd probably have to be some form of Flesh Golem and I'd probably have to make some kind of magical chain that channels the magic (aka, a special GM approved magic item. I know, BOO, HISS). It's a lot less fun when you have to throw in a lot of GM'ness to get an idea to work, but this doesn't appear to work any other way.
Why are you letting adherence to the letter of the rulebook get in the way of running a fun game with a cool concept?
Fun does not exist to facilitate the rules. The rules exist to facilitate fun and can be bent when the fail to do so. Don't put the cart before the horse.
Why are you letting adherence to the letter of the rulebook get in the way of running a fun game with a cool concept?
Fun does not exist to facilitate the rules. The rules exist to facilitate fun and can be bent when the fail to do so. Don't put the cart before the horse.
I didn't say I WON'T use my beefy GM stick, just that I am willing to put in some leg work to truly know if it could have been avoided first.
Man once you have ripped one of your arms off to throw it at the enemy, how do you rip the second one off?
Just to add something of an analogy, you could also add vorpal to an AoMF.
This doesn't mean that your critical hits will decapitate someone, unless you manage to make them do slashing damage.
Just because you CAN add it, doesn't mean it helps you.
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Just to add something of an analogy, you could also add vorpal to an AoMF.
This doesn't mean that your critical hits will decapitate someone, unless you manage to make them do slashing damage.
Just because you CAN add it, doesn't mean it helps you.
Tiger/Boar Style.
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I assure you, this was not started in jest. I have a player who is very rules lawyery and not very good at accepting, "I'm the GM, and so the final arbiter of the rules" who wants to use this combo with a Tetori monk to grapple enemies at range. I started this thread as a way to detail exactly why this would not work for him.
He was even trying to say that he could headbutt someone and then carry his head around just fine. :/
Let him do it. Let him enchant his amulet and headbutt someone at ranged by firing his head across the map like a rocket.
As soon as he does collect his character sheet and inform him of his suicide. His character is now decapitated and is dead. Imho, if he tries to pull the whole "It doesn't say I'm dead when I'm decapitated anywhere in the rules. I'm only dead when I hit -x hit points" crap, you should kick him out of the group. It sounds like he's one of those players who spends more time finding technical loopholes within the rules than actually playing the game. Most of the time those types turn out to be @#$holes.
Here's how I'd rule it.
Amulet of "Throwing" Fists:
Once per combat you can make up to a full flurry (or full BAB sequence) of "thrown weapon" attacks with your fists, because your ability to air-punch is that awesome. You can mystically regenerate this ability by spending a standard action in the square your opponent was in when you attacked...you have to re-center yourself.
Amulet of Returning Throwing Fists:
As above, save that you can spend a free action in YOUR square re-centering yourself. It's 16,000 GP. It's probably not broken.
Amulet of Ghosttouch Throwing Returning Fists:
Now, your Shadow companion can do this. For 36,000 GP, this is probably reasonably balanced, even for a creature that does 1d6 STR drain per successful ranged touch attack...
As above, the second you detach a part from your body and use at as a weapon, it becomes an improvised weapon and no longer part of your body. The whole scenario is irrelevant.
You start this as a joke it seems like, but want to defend it like it is some kinds rule you should be allowed to do.
I assure you, this was not started in jest. I have a player who is very rules lawyery and not very good at accepting, "I'm the GM, and so the final arbiter of the rules" who wants to use this combo with a Tetori monk to grapple enemies at range. I started this thread as a way to detail exactly why this would not work for him.
He was even trying to say that he could headbutt someone and then carry his head around just fine. :/
He's not being a rules lawyer. He's trying to be a munchkin. A rules lawyer tries to use the rules as they are written. A munchkin twists those rules into a meaningless mess.
Here's how to handle the situation: "No matter how you try to argue it, that's simply not how it's going to work. Let's stop interrupting the game over this. The conversation is over."
Some things aren't open for discussion during the game. After the game, they can only go on so long. You're the GM. You are the final arbiter whether he likes it or not. This is an example of when I wouldn't mind losing a player, even if he's a good friend (and I have in the past, more than once).
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think of Dahlsim from street fighter or Reed Richards from Fantastic Four. your arms stretch.
the reason for the accuracy penalties for the range increments of stretched arms.
stretching the arm requires active adjustment, which provokes AoOs and functions as a ranged attack
the increments, well, when you stretch your arm, it becomes harder to reliably aim it due to the unusual length and the difficulty contorting such an exotic appendage.
think of Dahlsim from street fighter or Reed Richards from Fantastic Four. your arms stretch.
the reason for the accuracy penalties for the range increments of stretched arms.
stretching the arm requires active adjustment, which provokes AoOs and functions as a ranged attack
the increments, well, when you stretch your arm, it becomes harder to reliably aim it due to the unusual length and the difficulty contorting such an exotic appendage.
Someone mentioned that earlier, but it seems to me that's more gaining reach than throwing. I could see the interpretation, I just don't agree with it.
Just to add something of an analogy, you could also add vorpal to an AoMF.
This doesn't mean that your critical hits will decapitate someone, unless you manage to make them do slashing damage.
Just because you CAN add it, doesn't mean it helps you.
Tiger/Boar Style.
Yes, but thats not the point. I'm aware that there are ways to do this.
My point was, that you could put Vorpal on an AoMF without having those abilities. It just wont help you.
Same thing with throwing and returning.
I say go along with what someone said earlier.
Let him put it on there and then the first time he uses it ask him if he also bought the Returning property.
If he says no, tell him his new name is Lefty.
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I don't know if that's enough proof for you that unarmed attacks are not melee weapons, but that's not even relevant.If you are trying to prove that an AoMF cannot grant an ability because unarmed attacks are not a melee weapon, then you are invalidating every single enhancement possible. This is obviously not the case. By this logic, Flaming also would not work.
Say what??? In my quote above I clearly say that that it is irrelevant that unarmed attacks are not melee weapons (for the purposes of my point in that post, anyway). How did you manage to turn that completely upside down in your mind? :)
I totally agree that you can put melee weapon enchantments on the amulet because the description says so. But it also specifically says "so long as they can be applied to unarmed attacks" which clearly means that some melee weapon enchantments don't apply. As Shar Tahl and Shinigaze put it, it's a "logic check".
Anyway, there's no point for me to argue this any further, if some people are determined to ignore the logic check, there's little I can do about it. As long as everyone at your table is having fun, does it even matter? :)
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Actually, there are rules for decapitation. They're hidden in the Vorpal weapon property because it doesn't normally otherwise come up. Not saying you shouldn't kick him from the group for being an inveterate munchkin, but you can have the satisfaction of legally killing his character first.I assure you, this was not started in jest. I have a player who is very rules lawyery and not very good at accepting, "I'm the GM, and so the final arbiter of the rules" who wants to use this combo with a Tetori monk to grapple enemies at range. I started this thread as a way to detail exactly why this would not work for him.
He was even trying to say that he could headbutt someone and then carry his head around just fine. :/
Let him do it. Let him enchant his amulet and headbutt someone at ranged by firing his head across the map like a rocket.
As soon as he does collect his character sheet and inform him of his suicide. His character is now decapitated and is dead. Imho, if he tries to pull the whole "It doesn't say I'm dead when I'm decapitated anywhere in the rules. I'm only dead when I hit -x hit points" crap, you should kick him out of the group. It sounds like he's one of those players who spends more time finding technical loopholes within the rules than actually playing the game. Most of the time those types turn out to be @#$holes.
So you go to being a jerk instead of trying to talk things out when you aren't playing?
Yeah, I can see how fine the group dynamic is working. Oh wait, it seems like there isn't one.
Man once you have ripped one of your arms off to throw it at the enemy, how do you rip the second one off?
Spoilsport.
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So you go to being a jerk instead of trying to talk things out when you aren't playing?
Yeah, I can see how fine the group dynamic is working. Oh wait, it seems like there isn't one.
I assure you, this was not started in jest. I have a player who is very rules lawyery and not very good at accepting, "I'm the GM, and so the final arbiter of the rules" who wants to use this combo with a Tetori monk to grapple enemies at range. I started this thread as a way to detail exactly why this would not work for him.
Sounds to me like it's already been discussed and they guy won't accept "no" as an answer. So, yea, we go to being a jerk.
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Actually, there are rules for decapitation. They're hidden in the Vorpal weapon property because it doesn't normally otherwise come up. Not saying you shouldn't kick him from the group for being an inveterate munchkin, but you can have the satisfaction of legally killing his character first.I assure you, this was not started in jest. I have a player who is very rules lawyery and not very good at accepting, "I'm the GM, and so the final arbiter of the rules" who wants to use this combo with a Tetori monk to grapple enemies at range. I started this thread as a way to detail exactly why this would not work for him.
He was even trying to say that he could headbutt someone and then carry his head around just fine. :/
Let him do it. Let him enchant his amulet and headbutt someone at ranged by firing his head across the map like a rocket.
As soon as he does collect his character sheet and inform him of his suicide. His character is now decapitated and is dead. Imho, if he tries to pull the whole "It doesn't say I'm dead when I'm decapitated anywhere in the rules. I'm only dead when I hit -x hit points" crap, you should kick him out of the group. It sounds like he's one of those players who spends more time finding technical loopholes within the rules than actually playing the game. Most of the time those types turn out to be @#$holes.
So you go to being a jerk instead of trying to talk things out when you aren't playing?
Yeah, I can see how fine the group dynamic is working. Oh wait, it seems like there isn't one.
WOOOOO HERE WE GO AGAIN
Again, sure it can be applied to fists... but how are you going to throw them?? they are attached to you...
that's the issue. Sure they have a range increment of 10 feet, but HOW do you throw them to take advantage of that?
Unarmed Strikes are your whole body thus you throw yourself as an attack.
Man once you have ripped one of your arms off to throw it at the enemy, how do you rip the second one off?Spoilsport.
Once I figure out how to get this second arm off, it's totally getting thrown at you.
Seriously c'mon dudes other than maybe some kind of GM'd up NPC this is just the worst.
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If he wants answers, his job is to question. "Does this work"... Nope, because of that. "I have reasons A, B, and C to suggest and support this works and it works this way." Oh, well it doesn't because blah blah blah...and we go back and forth. It's called discussion and debate and it's how we come to intelligent and, more importantly, correct conclusions.
If he wanted a "It's this way because I said so" answer I would direct him to his local pastor...
Unarmed Strikes are your whole body thus you throw yourself as an attack.Again, sure it can be applied to fists... but how are you going to throw them?? they are attached to you...
that's the issue. Sure they have a range increment of 10 feet, but HOW do you throw them to take advantage of that?
So it's basically some sort of short range fly or glide. or, if you do it fast enough, dimension door.
And couldn't he gnaw his second arm off and chuck it at his opponents with his mouth? :P lol
It's just a flesh wound!
Come back here, I'll bite yer ankles off!
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A throwing amulet might provide an entertaining NPC in the form of a Troll monk. THen you can tear off whatever parts of yourself you'd like, and just grow a new one for later.
I agree with the poster above, if a player really wanted to push the issue, id just describle the effect as a Hadouken. Something like a force effect that strikes out from the wielders hands or feet. We've seen it time and again in Kung Fu flicks, anime and video games. You know the scene, some martial artist channels his ki, strikes, and hits a guy 10 feet away, throwing him into a wall. Thematically I don't see a problem with it.
In fact, I applaud the original poster for bringing the idea to my attention. I'm always looking for ways to make combats look and feel more cinematic.
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Alternatively, i have a +1 Throwing Longsword locked in a locked gauntlet, my gauntlet flies with the longsword then come back to my hand?
Ok! I got anothe, i have a +1 throwing gauntlet! It detachs from my hand and reattaches later???
The answer is: Yes, you can enchant with throwing! But as you are inhibited to throw the given weapon, you cannot benefit from the enchantment. (And if you saw off your fist it will not ocunt anymore as part of your body, sorry).
You cannot cut off your leg, and wield it with two hands, and have a Flaming weapon that deal x1.5 strength to damage.
awwwwww.......
It is possible to make ranged attacks (100+ feet away from the target) with melee unarmed strikes, but throwing unarmed strikes is impossible.
Blood Crow Strike spell:
Range medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Your unarmed strikes release blasts of energy in the form of glowing red crows, which fly instantaneously to strike your target. You can make unarmed strike or flurry of blows attacks against the target as if it were in your threatened area; each successful attack deals damage as if you had hit it with your unarmed strike, except half the damage is fire and half is negative energy (this negative energy does not heal undead). For example, if you are a 14th-level monk, you can use a flurry of blows to attack five times, creating one energy crow for each successful attack against the target, and dealing 2d6 points of damage (plus appropriate unarmed strike modifiers) with each crow.
That's a spell Maple and it doesn't involve ripping your arms off to use it.
Also, I asked my GM if I could get a Throwing AoMF and he said no. =(
I am so disappoint and this ruins my entire character concept. What do?
Man I wish there was a way for me to detach this thread and throw it.
Amulet of detached thread throwing for terrible, terrible damage.