MAD vs SAD in mythic

[Tacticslion]

Drowlord, based on your basic idea, here are two counter proposals:

Mythic Points wrote:

You gain an amount of mythic points equal to five plus one and a half times your tier (round down).

and

Mythic Ability Scores wrote:

Choose two ability scores. They each increase by +1 at each tier.

This basically nets you the exact same effect as you describe as before, but limits the excess bookkeeping of an additional score.

One alternate, if people think starting with only one tier is weak, we can add:

Mythic Points wrote:

You gain an amount of mythic points equal to five plus one and a half times your tier (round down, minimum six).

This nets the highest a given creature is likely to have in an ability score without magic items (a +5 bonus), while also distributing the growth of mythic power more evenly across the board.

Edit: the "dual path" feat could be replaced with one optional choice that granted an additional +5 mythic power/day and could only be taken once.

Alternately/alternately, I have yet another ability score proposal that I always use that has no real mechanic effect in the games I play, but could for this (found here):

Tacticslion's Derivative Ability Scores wrote:

In the player’s handbook, six basic ability scores are given: Strength, Constitution, Dexterity, Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma. These are indicative ability scores, from which all other attributes about a character – all of their capabilities – are derived from. These are the best indicators of exactly what a person can or cannot do, and often works that try to add to these often overly complicate the rule systems they attempt to enhance – they place scores where none are needed. That said, in addition to the six prime, or "indicative" ability scores in the player’s handbook, I use three "derivative" ability scores: Beauty, Luck, and Power. As "derivative" scores, these are not meant to replace or even really augment any game mechanics, but rather mostly for use in how a character is perceived by others: is she thought of as beautiful, powerful, or fated to survive?

Again, these are not meant to replace the ability scores found in the Player’s Handbook. Each of them is derivative – they rely on the indicative scores to be derived. These scores are meant more to be used for the DM and Players to better facilitate role playing rather than game mechanics. If there is no place for derivative ability scores in your game, then do not make use of them. Appearance is the most easily replaced by using charisma. Luck can generally be replaced by dexterity or wisdom. Power can most often be replaced by strength or intelligence. Unlike regular ability scores, these cannot be increased every four levels. They are strictly derivative from other ability scores, meaning that as those improve, these will as well.

To determine a derivative ability score, first a character must have all of their indicative ability scores rolled and assigned. Once the six primary ability scores are determined, derivative ability scores can be generated. Take two relevant ability modifiers from the six primary ability scores of your choice, add them together, and add ten. This will grant you a derivative ability score. Each ability modifier can only be used once to create derivative ability scores. In other words, once a primary ability modifier has been used in one derivative ability score, it can’t be used for another. After developing all three ability scores, you may increase the derivative scores – and only the derivative scores – from a pool of 1d3 points plus a number equal to their level adjustment (not racial HD). Each point spent on one derivative ability score is unavailable for the others, however. In general, this is similar to making a modified average of two preexisting scores, though there can be some significant differences in scores by average.

Beauty: This is the physical appearance a person has, the attractiveness that they exude before anyone interacts with them. Ultimately, physical beauty is not charisma. Someone can look rather unattractive, yet be quite persuasive: former President Abraham Lincoln, or a scarred and battered warlord, for example, are not beautiful persons. Others can be incredible sights to behold, but have no persuasive ability whatsoever: that Wench at the bar, or Paris Hilton, come to mind. Still, those who are truly charismatic do at least care for their physical cleanliness and a moderate amount of their appearance. To derive appearance, choose one of Strength (for well built muscular structure) or Dexterity (for swift, graceful movements) and one of Intelligence (for well-used lexicon, fashion knowledge, and a clever ‘look’) or Charisma (for all-around personality manifested in the flesh). When you have chosen one physical ability score and one mental ability score, add them together plus ten and any other bonuses, and you have your appearance. Alternatively strictly use charisma along with strength or dexterity to show physical beauty characterized by muscular development or toning.

Power: Power is the ability to get what you want done, regardless of any difficulties such a problem presents. Usually the ability to handle problems – whether by overcoming through sheer force or enduring problems that would be far too grueling to others – comes with some measure of respect, but respect does not automatically come with authority or persuasiveness. Examples include boxer who persists through all challengers, or the wizard who holds the keys to the universe in his books. To derive a powerful person, whether magical or mundane, choose one of Strength (to brute-force your way through problems) or Constitution (to endure setbacks and still persist) and Intelligence (to derive logical solutions for the most difficult problems that arise) or Wisdom (to be aware of the right thing to do in any issue that comes up). When you have chosen one physical ability score and one mental ability score, add them together plus ten and any other bonuses, and you have your power. Alternatively strictly use intelligence along with strength or constitution to show sheer mental ability backed up by physical brawn or endurance.

Luck: Luck – also often called Destiny – is all about the perception of some greater destiny involved. A persons luck is best measured in the broad flow of a person’s life: the general tendencies that happen to them. Whether accurate or not, some have even likened it to a person’s lifeline or lifespan (they're "wyrd") – when one’s time is up, it’s up, but not ever before. This, really, is what is described by this ability – the fact that regardless of anything else, a person continues to escape death... this time. "It’s not their fate", it’s often said, "to die here and now. Tomorrow, maybe, but not today." To derive how "lucky" a person seems, how much "destiny" they apparently have, choose one of Constitution (to fortunately survive that wound) or Dexterity (to miraculously be out of the way when that explosion goes off) and one of Wisdom (to clearly recognize danger when it arises, and the proper response) or Charisma (to be able to get what you need). When you have chosen one physical ability score and one mental ability score, add them together plus ten and any other bonuses, and you have your Luck. Alternatively strictly use wisdom along with constitution or dexterity to show a clear understanding of one’s "fate" fortified by able body or quick reactions to work within it.

These ability scores are not necessary, but are presented here so as tools for GMs and players alike to be able to play how others perceive a character whether player character or not, in various ways. Further, this tool can be used in any campaign and any setting as a way to help role play and develop the world at large and the people within it.

The Derivative List: what the derivative scores use
Appearance, Beauty, Sexiness:
** Physical: Strength or Dexterity
** Mental: Intelligence or Charisma

Competence, Power, Reliability:
** Physical: Strength or Constitution
** Mental: Intelligence or Wisdom

Fate, Luck, Wyrd:
** Physical: Constitution or Dexterity
** Mental: Wisdom or Charisma

The Indicative List: what the indicative scores can be used for
Strength: Beauty or Power
Constitution: Power or Luck
Dexterity: Beauty or Luck
Intelligence: Beauty or Power
Wisdom: Power or Luck
Charisma: Beauty or Luck

Although not relevant to Mythic, I go on to say about those scores:

The rest of that post:

Me in that post wrote:

Also, a house-rule I use in my games a lot is the concept of derivative ability scores - i.e. those scores that come as a result of your other scores. These are basic appearances only: they do nothing for you mechanically, unless the GM rules otherwise. They are only there to govern how you are percieved by others. This allows low charisma people to have great beauty and (like the Justin Beiber example above) can even give people the feel of being "cursed" with good looks. It also allows some degree of separation from CHA and appearance. Anyway, here's my write up (modified for the boards here).

<snip the part quoted above>

The real reason for doing this is that a) you have an objective way of saying "that person looks nice/hideous" and b) to give role playing a base from which to spring. That really charismatic person: lucky or pretty? That bar wench might be pretty... but her life really isn't very lucky at all. Or "Man that wizard seems powerful, but that bard looks great, know what I'm sayin'?" Etc.

This does not refute the player's ability to define general qualifications about their appearance - someone with a low beauty score can still describe themselves as "tall, strong, and tanned with dark, wavy hair, and heterochromatic eyes" but it's going to come off differently than someone with a higher beauty score. It allows GMs to say "yeah, (s)he looks hot" without having to give every farmhand/barwench a powerful, persuasive personality. A wizard can look good! ... and be as persuasive as dirt.

It's a way of stepping outside GM fiat and giving crunch without making it really relevant to most adventuring plays. It separates the two.

And most importantly: it's completely optional!

It's not something I force on my players, but I've found that, over all, they like it. It allows the strange, decrepit sorcerer to still have a high charisma - people notice his power, not his beauty. It allows the rogue to seem really lucky - he's known for his Xanatos-Roulettes actually paying off, not how many ranks in bluff and sense motive he has. That type thing.

Anyhoo, YMMV, so enjoy, or not.

(Also, agreeing with the "different races/societies/cultures = different standards", with the caveat that I've seen some very beautiful fish or other creatures... I just wouldn't tend to take their word in an argument.)

I've also meddled with the naming quite a bit, but those are kind of sort of the current names more or less.