So I have a new game coming up in the near future and I have decided to play a gnome. Also want to play a class I never have used before. After looking at those classes I am on the fence about either playing a barbarian or a sorcerer.
So I turn to the boards to use as a spring board.
Details: 15 point buy, characters are to be in the low range of starting age and we all live in the same small town. I am more Concept > then mechanics/optimization. Most likely Core only given it is the GMs first Pathfinder game as the GM.
For the barbie I was thinking 'ankle biter' gnome who really gets into the rage. I know I want to take the bite rage power at level two. What before that though? Grappling seems like a bad idea all around but I am liking the visual of either spike armor or spiked gauntlets as the 'primary' attack form or just perhaps improve unarmed strike feat?
I know this is no where near optimized but not sure how best to get this ankle biting concept perfect. Thinking about Str 13 (15 Before Racial Mod), Dex 12, Con 16 (14 Before Racial Mod, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 11 (9 Before Racial Mod).
For the Sorcerer I was thinking Fey Bloodline, perhaps being an 'enchanter', taking Spell Focus Enchantment with putting the points in Str 10 (12 before racial mod), Dex 14, Con 10 (8 before racial mod), Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 17 (15 befoe Racial mod).
Thoughts, Questions?
What does the rest of the party look like? If you've got a lot of archers/casters the Barb is probably a good way to go, but if you're full up on martials the Sorcerer is likely your best bet.
GM is looking at having a party of four but right now there is just the two of us. The other guy is thinking pretty hard on Bard.
I will have to take a look at Sylvan bloodline, I am kind of aiming for a natury, feyish sorcerer. It seems like a natural fit for a gnome.
If you want to go the Ankle Biter route, you could go for maximizing natural attacks and work towards pounce. Here's roughly what you do:
Firstly, take the Totem Warrior archetype so that you can choose more than one totem; this costs you nothing, so go for it. Get some spiked armor and use that as your primary attack; then, as your rage powers, take Animal Fury at 2nd, Lesser Beast Totem at 4th, Lesser Fiend Totem at 6th, Beast Totem at 8th, and Greater Beast Totem at 10th. In terms of feats, get anything, but pick up multiattack at 7th level for sure.
This gives you a full attack routine with your armor spikes, plus one bite, one gore, and two claws at a -2 each while raging. That is a buttload of attacks! Plus, at 10th you'll be pouncing, and essentially doing full attacks every round. Maybe consider Extra Rage at some point, as you really need to be raging to make this work. Power Attack probably wouldn't be a miss.
"Aww, wook at da widdle gnome! What's he gonna do, bite my ank-gaaah! AAAH! WAAAAAAUUUGGGHHHHH GET IT OFF GET IT OFF GET IT OFFFFFBLARGHRLGHLGHLF....."
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Another idea I'd love to try some day requires some leniency from the GM (hey, you're playing a gnome barbarian, give a guy a break) is a gnome mounted build. Grab the Mounted Fury build, and ask your GM if you can take a badger/wolverine at 5th level, given the affinity gnomes have for burrowing animals. If so, take Boon Companion right away, up its Int to 3, and start giving it Extra Rage so that the little bugger can keep up with you.
If your GM is really lenient, ask if s/he will let you waive the racial restriction on the Amplified Rage teamwork feat. If you and your badger/wolverine mount each have that feat and are each raging, watch out!
It's really not particularly powerful; it's mostly just a lot of fun.
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As for a sorcerer, I'm partial to the Sylvan bloodline (which modifies Fey) for the animal companion, though sorcs don't really have the best spells to back one up (Enlarge Person is nice, but the lack of healing and magic fang hurts).
I also like the Verdant bloodline; they make great battlefield 'trollers (entangle ftw!). The other powers have a lot of flavour and help with camping and keeping watch over the party. In particular, I love the ability to cast plant growth/diminish plants at will! Imagine how useful you could be to farmers by blessing their crops!
Whatever you decide, I hope you have fun. ^__^
Just of note, when grappling, you can use natural attacks you've got. A small grappling gnome, who latches onto enemies and continues to bite them until they stop moving sounds absolutely amazing. Not sure how much damage you'd be doing that way, but hey.
Honestly, if you like concepts over optimization, you should probably just pick whatever sounds more up your alley (or vice versa, if you want to try something different. Do you often tend toward martial characters or casters?). Sylvan bloodline for an animal companion could be perfect if you want something in the middle.
Both of the concepts you've got laid out sound like they could be a lot of fun though.
For a small party, a druid is really good. The animal companion is an extra body, a good selection of weapons, full spellcasting--including healing, and a good selection of skills that compliment the bard's.
Rangers and barbarians are good too.
Dot.
Thanks everyone. If I can convince the GM I think I will go the Beast Totem route but will be some GM calling on multiattack and perhaps elderitc claws as well.
Some other things I am not sure about though, do Armor Spikes threaten for AoO? If they don't, will a spike gauntlet or do I still need Improved Unarmed Strike to do that?
Spike Gauntlet threatens not sure about Armour Spikes.
I'm pretty sure that armor spikes threaten; I don't see any rules saying that they don't. It is a bit unusual in that they're a weapon you're wielding without using your hands, but they aren't the only one; the dwarven boulder helm doesn't use hands, either.
You could use a spiked gauntlet or cestus, but that would require the use of your hands and would rule out your claw attacks.
Been awhile coming. So I am looking at this for the start of build, going with the discussed ankle biter barbian totem build. The unarmed strike is to get to the Improved Grapple but I am not sure about that either. Looking at the grapple rules though, the controller of the grapple only can do damage once with a successful grapple while the one being grappled can do a full attack with light weapons which for this character might be the better option.
Of course with bite and Greater Grapple controlling the grapple could be a lot more interesting.
Background to come a bit later.
Tergi
Female Gnome Barbarian 1
CG Small Humanoid (gnome)
Init +1; Senses low-light vision; Perception +6
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Defense
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AC 16, touch 12, flat-footed 15 (+4 armor, +1 Dex, +1 size)
hp 14 (1d12+2)
Fort +4, Ref +1, Will +0; +2 vs. illusions
Defensive Abilities defensive training
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Offense
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Speed 20 ft.
Melee Armor spikes +4 (1d4+2/x2) and
. . Unarmed strike +4 (1d2+2/x2)
Special Attacks hatred, rage (6 rounds/day)
Spell-Like Abilities Dancing Lights (1/day), Ghost Sound (1/day), Prestidigitation (1/day), Speak with Animals (1/day)
--------------------
Statistics
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Str 14, Dex 13, Con 15, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 11
Base Atk +1; CMB +2; CMD 13
Feats Improved Unarmed Strike
Skills Acrobatics -2 (-6 jump), Climb -1, Craft (armor) +4, Escape Artist -2, Fly +0, Handle Animal +4, Knowledge (nature) +4, Perception +6, Ride -2, Stealth +2, Survival +4, Swim -1; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception
Languages Common, Gnome, Sylvan
SQ fast movement +10, illusion resistance
Other Gear Armor spikes Hide armor, Backpack (7 @ 12.25 lbs), Belt pouch (1 @ 0 lbs), Blanket, Flint and steel, Gnome trail rations (5), Pot, Rope, Soap, Torch (9), Torch, Waterskin, 31 GP
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Special Abilities
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Dancing Lights (1/day) (Sp) With Charisma 11+, cast Dancing Lights once per day.
Defensive Training +4 Gain a dodge bonus to AC vs monsters of the Giant subtype.
Fast Movement +10 (Ex) +10 feet to speed, unless heavily loaded.
Ghost Sound (1/day) (Sp) With Charisma 11+, cast Ghost Sound once per day.
Hatred +1 Gain a bonus to attack vs goblinoid/reptilian humanoids.
Illusion Resistance +2 racial bonus to saves against illusions.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Prestidigitation (1/day) (Sp) With Charisma 11+, cast Prestidigitation once per day.
Rage (6 rounds/day) (Ex) +4 Str, +4 Con, +2 to Will saves, -2 to AC when enraged.
Speak with Animals (1/day) (Sp) With Charisma 11+, cast Speak with Animals once per day.
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As far as being an ankle biter, you could ask your DM if you could use the technically Goblin-only Barbarian archetype, the Feral Gnasher. I don't really know how good it is, but it is designed for a combat style of literally biting on and not letting go.
Thanks @mechaPoet (love the name) but he will probably say no to that (He already said no to me doing the Preservist archetype to Alchemist because the theme didn't make sense to him.) and I think I can do it without having to go outside of the established Pathfinder options.
Firstly, take the Totem Warrior archetype so that you can choose more than one totem
Totem Warrior does not do this, in fact it is not really an archetype at all but the rest of the stuff is great and is the core for this build.
So the character is officially built tomorrow and I have changed my build idea a little big again. So going Barbie still but with the Brutal Pugilist with a focus on using feats to make things dex base. Good idea, bad idea?
Female Gnome Barbarian (Brutal Pugilist) 1
CG Small Humanoid (gnome)
Init +2; Senses low-light vision; Perception +2
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Defense
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AC 14, touch 11, flat-footed 12 (+3 armor, +2 Dex, +1 size)
hp 16 (1d12+4)
Fort +6, Ref +2, Will +2; +2 vs. illusions
Defensive Abilities defensive training
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee Armor spikes +5 (1d4+3/x2)
Special Attacks hatred, rage (6 rounds/day)
Spell-Like Abilities Dancing Lights (1/day), Ghost Sound (1/day), Prestidigitation (1/day), Speak with Animals (1/day)
--------------------
Statistics
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Str 16, Dex 15, Con 19, Int 11, Wis 10, Cha 11
Base Atk +1; CMB +3; CMD 13
Feats Weapon Finesse
Skills Acrobatics +5, Climb +6, Escape Artist +1, Fly +3, Handle Animal +4, Perception +2, Ride +1, Stealth +6, Survival +4, Swim +2; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception
Languages Common, Gnome, Sylvan
SQ fast movement +10, illusion resistance
Other Gear Armor spikes Hide shirt, 35 GP
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Special Abilities
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Dancing Lights (1/day) (Sp) With Charisma 11+, cast Dancing Lights once per day.
Defensive Training +4 Gain a dodge bonus to AC vs monsters of the Giant subtype.
Fast Movement +10 (Ex) +10 feet to speed, unless heavily loaded.
Ghost Sound (1/day) (Sp) With Charisma 11+, cast Ghost Sound once per day.
Hatred +1 Gain a bonus to attack vs goblinoid/reptilian humanoids.
Illusion Resistance +2 racial bonus to saves against illusions.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Prestidigitation (1/day) (Sp) With Charisma 11+, cast Prestidigitation once per day.
Rage (6 rounds/day) (Ex) +4 Str, +4 Con, +2 to Will saves, -2 to AC when enraged.
Speak with Animals (1/day) (Sp) With Charisma 11+, cast Speak with Animals once per day.
--------------------
Tagi's parents were a simple folk; well as simple as gnomes could be. They were traveling merchants, her mother selling unique baked goods while her father traded in oddities, rare spell components and questionable magic items.
The pride and joy of her father's collection (outside of his perfectly odd daughter and wife) was their caravan. It was one of those 'bigger on the inside' places, in it Tagi even had her own room.
Realizing the caravan was a valuable and desired item, Tagi's family kept the uniqueness of the caravan a secret. In one of their regularly visited towns one of the street thieves was starting to question the amount of goods the gnomes could move.
After carefully watching them for a few of their visits the thief thought he knew what was up and organized an ambush along their usual route out of the city. The ambush was quick and unexpected as the family felt safe on the familiar road as they rode along. Seeing they were outnumbered and murder in the eyes of their attackers the couple decided the goal was to save their daughter without having to speak a word.
It was all a blur to the young Tagi as her parents fought to protect her. Suddenly her mother flung her at one of the thieves by the edge of the road and called out, "What does a badger do?" The young gnome responded with, "Claws and Bites!", which she did to the thief's face sending him and her to the ground. Next her mother called out again, "What does a rabbit do?" Again the 15 year old Tagi called back, "Run fast fast!" and she dashed off into the woods. Normally one of her parents would be chasing after her and she be giggling away but today she cried as her parents covered her escape into the woods.
Tagi ran until she could run no more so she simply sat on the ground, catching her breath and waited for her parents. After she recovered and her parents didn't come, the child gnome turned around and walked back. By the time she got back to the road night was starting to set in and nothing was there but blood on the ground. As she began to cry again the rain started; washing it all away. Tagi started calling for her parents, even switching to speak with animals. Eventually a lynx showed up, took Tagi in and brought Tagi to her lair with the young cubs. The lynx adopted Tagi and raised her to survive in the woods. As the cubs came to age and left to their own devices while the gnome stayed but did slowly get independent.
Tagi never really left the territory of her adopted mother lynx, even helping raise future litters. After many years the gnome's adopted mother finally expired from this world (Tagi's age 25). After mourning the death of the lynx the gnome went traveling into the wilderness. She was looking for one of her sibling, a cub she helped raise. It took her some time and a few close calls until she came across a brother. It took them awhile to re-bond, but once they did they were never that far apart.
One day a poacher interested in her brother's fur had the lynx in his sight. Tagi came upon the poacher just in time to stop the attack, tapping into her inner wild. She was doing well until the poacher's partner stepped in. Luckily for Tagi a retired ranger was on the poachers' trail and rescued the gnome. The ranger tried to take the gnome back to his village but Tagi wouldn't have it so the ranger left her there...for now. After turning in the poachers the ranger would return to find Tagi again. He tried again to convince her to come but again she refused. The ranger would keep visiting Tagi, trying to gain her trust. Eventually the gnome came to trust the ranger and followed him home. The ranger would come to take Tagi in and raise her as his daughter (age 36). Slowly the ranger re-introduced Tagi into society. She learned to be around people, but still was known for being a hot head. Was even known how physically personal she would get when upset. In the process the ranger brought her into what work he still did to bring some money in which usually consisted of being a scout or a hunting guide. (game start age 45).
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Pathfinder® and associated marks and logos are trademarks of Paizo Publishing, LLC®, and are used under license.
For those Interested:
The pride and joy of her father's collection (outside of his perfectly odd daughter and wife) was their caravan. It was one of those 'bigger on the inside' places, in it Tagi even had her own room.
Realizing the caravan was a valuable and desired item, Tagi's family kept the uniqueness of the caravan a secret. In one of their regularly visited towns one of the street thieves was starting to question the amount of goods the gnomes could move.
After carefully watching them for a few of their visits the thief thought he knew what was up and organized an ambush along their usual route out of the city. The ambush was quick and unexpected as the family felt safe on the familiar road as they rode along. Seeing they were outnumbered and murder in the eyes of their attackers the couple decided the goal was to save their daughter without having to speak a word.
It was all a blur to the young Tagi as her parents fought to protect her. Suddenly her mother flung her at one of the thieves by the edge of the road and called out, "What does a badger do?" The young gnome responded with, "Claws and Bites!", which she did to the thief's face sending him and her to the ground. Next her mother called out again, "What does a rabbit do?" Again the 15 year old Tagi called back, "Run fast fast!" and she dashed off into the woods. Normally one of her parents would be chasing after her and she be giggling away but today she cried as her parents covered her escape into the woods.
Tagi ran until she could run no more so she simply sat on the ground, catching her breath and waited for her parents. After she recovered and her parents didn't come, the child gnome turned around and walked back. By the time she got back to the road night was starting to set in and nothing was there but blood on the ground. As she began to cry again the rain started; washing it all away. Tagi started calling for her parents, even switching to speak with animals. Eventually a lynx showed up, took Tagi in and brought Tagi to her lair with the young cubs. The lynx adopted Tagi and raised her to survive in the woods. As the cubs came to age and left to their own devices while the gnome stayed but did slowly get independent.
Tagi never really left the territory of her adopted mother lynx, even helping raise future litters. After many years the gnome's adopted mother finally expired from this world (Tagi's age 25). After mourning the death of the lynx the gnome went traveling into the wilderness. She was looking for one of her sibling, a cub she helped raise. It took her some time and a few close calls until she came across a brother. It took them awhile to re-bond, but once they did they were never that far apart.
One day a poacher interested in her brother's fur had the lynx in his sight. Tagi came upon the poacher just in time to stop the attack, tapping into her inner wild. She was doing well until the poacher's partner stepped in. Luckily for Tagi a retired ranger was on the poachers' trail and rescued the gnome. The ranger tried to take the gnome back to his village but Tagi wouldn't have it so the ranger left her there...for now. After turning in the poachers the ranger would return to find Tagi again. He tried again to convince her to come but again she refused. The ranger would keep visiting Tagi, trying to gain her trust. Eventually the gnome came to trust the ranger and followed him home. The ranger would come to take Tagi in and raise her as his daughter (age 36). Slowly the ranger re-introduced Tagi into society. She learned to be around people, but still was known for being a hot head. Was even known how physically personal she would get when upset. In the process the ranger brought her into what work he still did to bring some money in which usually consisted of being a scout or a hunting guide. (game start age 45).
Have you considered the Dervish Dance/Urban Barbarian build?
The ability to bypass the strength penalty is a big boon.
No, thanks for the help but that doesn't fit the characters background or what I am really trying to achieve.
A gnome that bites, claws things to death!
Arg, I keep flip flopping on first feat/what feats to take long planning wise. I am starting to think that going dex base will be bad. Leaning back toward unarmed strike/improve grappling but not sure if I really need to be controlling that grapple so much.
Right now I am waiting for my GM to finish mowing to start building this character.
Ug, the actual rolls 13, 13, 14, 10, 12, 10. Right now put them here.
Str 14
Dex 13
Con 13
Int 12
Wis 10
Cha 10
Which come out to this for a gnome
Str 12
Dex 13
Con 15
Int 12
Wis 10
Cha 12