Discussion For the Beneficial Bandolier


Pathfinder Society

Sovereign Court 1/5

Not much has been said about this item, and why it is legal, so I think we should discuss. I will be for the item and I am sure plenty of people will be willing to offer up their opinions about why it should be out.

First off, the item in question.

What it does:

1) Allows you to reload a single round as a swift action
2) Allows you to reload without provoking
3) Acts as a bag of holding for ammunition, powder and gunsmith tools

When can you get it:

Since it costs 1k gold, the earliest a Pathfinder could get this item is one mod from 3rd level due to needing 9PP (barring AR related access).

Analysis:

1) Reloading is an issue for early Gunslingers, but one that can be mitigated by feats and class features. One-handed guns take a Standard action to reload, but with Rapid Reload and Alchemical Paper Cartridges, a pistol can be reloaded as a free action at level 1. Two-handed guns are even harder to load, but can be reloaded as a move at level one and as a free at level 3.

As far as action economy goes, this item provides no real mechanical benefit to a Pistolero, and only helps a Musket Master reload faster for one mod, before they too can reload faster than a swift.

2) This is a pretty nice ability, but is tempered by the fact that a 5ft step is usually all that is needed to get out of provoking.

3) A powder horn weighs a pound. A gunsmiths kit weights 2 pounds. Barring a ridiculous amount of ammo and powder, this is essentially a 3 pound bag of holding.

In addition, this item takes up the belt slot, barring the use of stat boosting belts.

Given the level at which one can acquire it, and the fact that it does very little for the action economy, I can't see why this item should be illegal. Since it takes a swift action, you will not be able to:

1) Reload a double barreled weapon
2) Reload in between Rapid Shots or iterative shots

Its only real use is for loading special ammunition if you don't want to pay to make it an alchemical cartridge (more expensive) and you are fine with taking just one shot. Or if you let yourself get backed into a corner and are willing to take single shots to avoid provoking while reloading (though you'd provoke from shooting unless you bought a lot of feats).

Let me know what you guys think, but I really don't see why this should be a banned item.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

It is not legal for PFS, so is your goal to ask mike to make it legal?

Sovereign Court 1/5

Yes, but I would also like to see if there is something gamebreaking about the item that I haven't realized. If so, then I would withdraw the request. I figure, it is a better approach to discuss it first than say "Hey Mike, gimme this item I want cuz I want it."

5/5

Just because it isn't legal for general purchase, doesn't mean it won't be found eventually. This Thread from Mike explains that he was experimenting with withholding general access to some items from UE in order to help make chronicle sheet rewards special.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Basically there are a lot of developments for gun technology that haven't been invented in Golarion yet, particularly a number of the gun related archetypes.

As Golarion only has one small nation that produces and uses guns, I guess you can assume no wizard has thought to build this item yet. If you were using Pathfinder rules in a steampunk setting, or the Iron Kingdoms, these bandoliers would likely be available.

The item is not overpowered, having it in the belt slot hurts its viability a LOT.

Off topic, have guns appeared in any NPCs hands yet? I can't think of any.

1/5

Honestly; I don't like the item. It saves you gold on one bullet a round (i.e. you can reload with a swift action instead of a move/free depending on your gun type and rapid reload feats without having to use alchemical cartridges) but it takes your BELT slot. Why wouldn't you prefer to wear a Belt of Incredible Dexterity instead? (As KestlerGunner said.)

As a counter to his statement of wizards not making them yet, see the other, legal bandolier below. I suspect the reason it is not PFS legal (<-go here people who read this thread and thought it was legal based on the initial post, search for "beneficial bandolier") is because it can give some ridiculous action economy to gunslingers (i.e. reload as a swift action once per round) without feats, and that kind of action economy makes for too-powerful stuff? (Look at the quickrunner's shirt threads on the forums for example).

Wouldn't you be better off as a gunslinger buying an endless bandolier for your bullet-and-gunsmithing-kit storing needs, and then putting on your belt-of-hit-things-better-(and-if-you're-a-pistolero-and-why-aren't-you?-do ing-more-damage)? That's my preference anyway.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East

Most of the time, I'd also recomend the endless bandolier instead. It's chest slot, and is bag-o-holding for your ammo AND YOUR GUNS. For a straight gunslinger, it conflicts with... Deadshot Vest? (more range) Snakeskin tunic? (Dex & AC, doesn't stack well).
Sadly, my gunslinger/inquisitor is using chest for a Bane Baldric.

The Bene Bando just isn't good enough to take away your belt slot. It is NOT the same situation as quickrunner's shirt. By the time you can buy it, you can already reload fast enough that the swift action's not often an issue.

Sovereign Court 1/5

@Odea: I just think people should get the chance to make that choice. Even if it does seem to be a substandard one.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/5 *

As a musket master player I was split on this. The storeage capacity is VERY nice but, I would agree with most that losing access to the dex belt was a bad thing overall. I like the ammo storeage and definitely like the reload but I don't see any reason to argue its exclusion from play.

We got the endless bandolier which is kind of the same without the potentially abused reload feature AND still get to keep the belt slot.

Right now I'm split between a belt of dex +2, the endless bandolier, the long range scope OR another bump to my musket. Since I already have an efficient quiver AND a hand haversack, I'll most likely go with the belt.


I am confused, how can a gunslinger be too powerful if he can take an extra action per round, when there are wizards and clerics in the game?

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/5 *

CWheezy wrote:
I am confused, how can a gunslinger be too powerful if he can take an extra action per round, when there are wizards and clerics in the game?

I think because it circumvents the reliability factor of normal powder loads vs the speed of paper cartridges. With it you never have to worry about the increase failure rate of paper cartridges. Or the cost.

In the hands of a multiweapon using pistoleros I'm not sure how much of an edge this gives. To me it would allow my Musket Master to reload his Pepperbox or Musket without losing a move action at all.

Sovereign Court 1/5

Well no good news in today's Resources update. It's still illegal.

Sovereign Court 3/5

you all assume that the only ones shooting guns are single classed gunslinger... I'm sorry, but my rogue 2 (pirate archetype) / gunslinger 3 (siege gunner) would love this swift action thing...

Sovereign Court 3/5

RtrnofdMax wrote:
Two-handed guns are even harder to load, but can be reloaded as a move at level one and as a free at level 3.

Humor me here... how do you get there? (no snark: i'm relatively new at playing gunslingers; thanks!)

Sovereign Court 3/5

rapid reload will be one of my feats for sure; I also have weapon finesse for the sap/rapier/unarmed brawls during ship fights, which jives well with Swinging Reposition (rog2 pirate ability)

now, do you guys know if a bull rush done at the end of a Swinging Reposition triggers an AoO?

Shadow Lodge

Holy Necromancy Batman!

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Seige Gunner gunslingers are not legal in PFS to the best of my knowledge. You do know this is a two year old thread in the PFS section, right?

Shadow Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
you all assume that the only ones shooting guns are single classed gunslinger... I'm sorry, but my rogue 2 (pirate archetype) / gunslinger 3 (siege gunner) would love this swift action thing...

Yeah, as Mystic Lemur mentioned, Siege Gunner is not legal.

Quote:
All content on pages 28–47 is legal except the order of the beast, rough rampager, seal-breaker, and siege gunner.

Sovereign Court 3/5

sorry that guy is for a homegame.... d'Oh!


I have a question on the cost of this item. It is advertised as a 1000gp item but it takes a level 9 caster and a level 5 spell to create. just looking at the item creation chart says:

Use-activated or continuous Spell level x caster level x 2,000 gp

so 5x9x2000 = 90,000gp

So how the heck did Paizo come up with a 1000gp price tag??

Shadow Lodge

Melzack wrote:

I have a question on the cost of this item. It is advertised as a 1000gp item but it takes a level 9 caster and a level 5 spell to create. just looking at the item creation chart says:

Use-activated or continuous Spell level x caster level x 2,000 gp

so 5x9x2000 = 90,000gp

So how the heck did Paizo come up with a 1000gp price tag??

First of all, could you please let the dead rest? This particular thread has died not once but twice, and you insist on digging it up yet again....

As for item pricing, that particular formula is a 'if all other pricing methods fail' option, as it can create insane results (use that formula to price an item that provides a continuous True Strike effect and tell me it is even remotely balanced).

Pricing magic items is a bit of an art: It's generally better to look at the item's end results and compare it to other items to figure out. In this particular case, they probably started with the 'bag of holding' functionality and made adjustments for its limitations and other features.

Grand Lodge 2/5

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Taja the Barbarian wrote:
As for item pricing, that particular formula is a 'if all other pricing methods fail' option, as it can create insane results (use that formula to price an item that provides a continuous True Strike effect and tell me it is even remotely balanced).

It is indeed broken. Who in their right mind would be dumb enough to pay for a "constant effect" magic item that loses all powers the first time it's used?

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