It came to my attention that there should be a new thread for this revised class, so here it is. The Revised Electus. The link should take you directly to the PDF created by yours truly, me.
I honestly can't wait to play this class!
Very nice layout Master Napier. And a very fine class thanks to all who contributed.
Which artwork is yours Spyder? Just the borders? What did you use for layout? Today is my last day of a Graphic Design Diploma - I've been using InDesign... now that I'm finished I want to make some banging PDFs!
Very nice layout Master Napier. And a very fine class thanks to all who contributed.
Which artwork is yours Spyder? Just the borders? What did you use for layout? Today is my last day of a Graphic Design Diploma - I've been using InDesign... now that I'm finished I want to make some banging PDFs!
Why thank you sir! Yes the borders are my only design. And yeah I used InDesign, though I set it for print instead of web. And I look forward to seeing the PDFs that you create.
I would have used more of my own work, but my figure drawing is all that great.
Very interesting from my first glance. Like Valkyn, I'll have to read it over more carefully later. But I like what I see!
I feel like class should be less magical than it is and more dependant on their weapon. Rather than give the class the Arcane Pool, give the weapon a pool and let the character use points for very heroic stuff (some magical and some not so). The class right now feels too much like the Magus.
I honestly agree with you, but everyone kept saying they wanted magic...in a round about way. Also, I didn't create the class. I do also think that there has to be a longer penalty for losing the weapon, and not having it return to their hands automatically. If you could, please throw out some ideas.
When I first proposed the idea for this class I pointed out that a FULL BAB arcane caster was missing from the Pathfinder Classes line up. There are full bab divine casters such as the Paladin and Ranger, but no arcane. BTW, I am happy that people are paying more attention to this. Spyder worked his thorax off making this.
hilarious that this is back on, seeing as in my next game i was going to try the electus and run it alongside a magus to see what happens. to be honest i am ok with the arcane pool, as i am with ninja and monk sharing ki pools. its the fact that it has spellcombat and spellstrike, the magus' cup of tea, that i am iffy about. if any changes are made before i start the campaign i will try to implement them accordingly.
Have you noticed how this guy could be the biggest crit fisher in the multiverse? At level seven I could make a two hander with a 1D8 18-20/4. that's pretty wild. It does adequately describe how badass epic this magic beat stick is supposed to be i guess.
Haha, I did work my thorax off on this. I do want to look over this class again to add the gauntlet and armor to the calibur ability. This will incorporate weapons like the Witchblade, Excalibur (the counterpart of the Witchblade), and The Darkness. Could someone also print a couple of pages out and tell me how the artwork looks? I don't have a printer anymore, so I'm not able to do so.
Oceanshieldwolf: If you ever see this thread again, I now have my BFA in graphic design.
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We could start by looking at the weapon. I feel like it should be core part of the class. We could do this by giving the weapon some kind of pool (as above).
Another note is that these weapons (caliburs) in related media (Arthur, He-Man, Witchblade) could be seen as either from a Deity or somekind of arcane source. Perhaps even a mix of arcane/divine spells would work in its list.
On to concerning spells. What about changing them to supernatural abilities? That would replace the need for spell combat and open up some space for a unique ability.
would you give any thought to trading spell combat and strike in, maybe for an ability to add your enhancement from your weapon to your dc or damage for spells this turn?
Firstly, love the PDF!
The class seems decent enough. The use of familiar styles of mechanics lends it credibility. A magus-like class leaning more towards weapons and less towards magic has a place in RPGs. I also think there is room for more 4 spell level classes like the ranger and paladin. This class looks like it would be fun to play.
I do have a criticism however, and it has very litle to do with actual design of the class. I mostly read through this based on the title of the thread. I read l'Morte de Arthur a few years back (sp?) and it gave my role-playing renewed life. I have had an interest in mythology all my life, particularly Norse in the last several years. Masters of the Universe was my favorite toy/tv lines as a child, right behind Transformers. So, the title caught my attention. While Arthur, Thor, and He-Man each have a unique weapon closely identified with their legend, and each has magic and magic-users associated with them. But not one of these three would I descibe as a spell caster. So, thats my small nitpick.
@Spyder - congratulations! I passed my course too and now have a Diploma in Graphic Design. And as the Gauntlet Witch freak hereabouts, I'd really like to see the gauntlet and armor stuff for the Electus!!!
@Ciaran Barnes - I would agree - nothing about the theme or flavor of this class makes me think spell-caster. The weapon itself is really the thing.
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What about having different types of weapon powers? Similar to wizard schools in that you get several different abilities at different levels that are unified. They could also be like Domains and grant additional, different spells to the class's list.
Edit: I'll certainly work on something to show what I mean.
Thanks Oceanshieldwolf, and congrats to you as well.
What I would like to do is get rid of spell casting all together, as it was said several times the characters referenced were not spell casters. I also liked the original idea of using evolutions from the summoner class that the calibur bestows upon the wielder. That being said, the weapon points for the calibur will have to be retooled or the evolutions would be added to the weapon points, and would be renamed calibur points. Getting rid of the spell casting would also get rid of spell combat and spell strike, but the metamagic arcana would have to be removed...I think. Adding the gauntlet to the calibur is no problem, but it will be tricky to add armor. I think deflect attacks should also progress like the monk's deflection bonus. This might change the class a lot, but what do you guys think?
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I don't think you need to get rid of spell casting all together but I think some caliburs can do without it. Perhaps something like Evocating to use up the calibur points (1/2 class + Cha?) and do an effect.
As for the deflection bonus, what about rewording Canny Defense from the Duelist to use Cha instead of Int and allowing the use of increasingly heavier armor?
Evocating?
Also, the Canny Defense wouldn't work for those that use a ranged weapon for their calibur.
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Evocating?
Also, the Canny Defense wouldn't work for those that use a ranged weapon for their calibur.
Then just reword it to use with the character's calibur instead of a one handed weapon.
As for evocating, I just meant that the character brings forth the power of the calibur. Something along the lines of evoking or invoking.
Oh, ok. Canny Defense would work perfectly then. And that could work for the spell casting. Or I could make it split into two groups. One that adds evolutions and one that allows spell casting.
Don't forget that as a Base class there's lots of room for archetypes!!!
Don't forget that as a Base class there's lots of room for archetypes!!!
Would you like to work on the those?
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Let's look at the different types of caliburs that exist.
Transformative (He-man)
These caliburs transform the character into a powerful entity.
Magical Focus (Marvel comics Thor)
These caliburs gives characters a way to use or to focuse magical powers. The character may possess these powers himself but requires the calibur to utilize these powers to their fullest.
Enhancement (Megingjord*)
These caliburs enchance the character's own, natural abilities.
Symbol or Associative (Excalibur)
These caliburs grant powers associated to a particular symbol. Excalibur is the symbol of rightful rule.
Powerful (Calabolg)
These caliburs are largely very destructive rather than giving a character magical powers.
Partner (Star Dragon Sword)
These caliburs are associated with overcoming a certain problem the character may face. Often these caliburs have personalities that manifest and powers that the character does not have that the calibur uses(such as knowledge in one particular area).
Versatile (Witchblade)
These caliburs can often perform a large number of different effects or powers. The witchblade, for example, can produce different weapons, armor, magical blasts, or even wings.
I'm certain that there are other types but these are a good start to determining different kinds of caliburs that are out there. The partner calibur is a good candidate for an archetype.
*edit: I know its a belt but i'm talking about the idea of that type of calibur
The sword in the stone was Arthur's symbol of rightful rule, while Excalibur was given to him by Nimue. I'm not sure it had powers, but it's sheath did.
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There's quite a number of variants of excalibur. Depending on which you take, it can fulfil a number of different roles. Some detail it as just a powerful sword, others detail it as a symbols, and still other combine the two. We could even go into other uses of its name including soul eater's usage.
As a symbol version, excalibur can easily give powers like the cleric's domain of law or nobility.
And Teiidae recently alerted folk to Onimusha's Oni Gauntlet after seeing my Gauntlet Witch and related articles on the KQ blog. Kinda glad and sad I hadn't come across it before - glad that I didn't so as not to steal the idea and sad for the same reason - a soul eating eldritch gauntlet is way cool. Sigh, I can always tweak it for another racial cariant for the gauntlet witch...
@Spyder - I am a bit busy at the mo, but sure down the line perhaps...
@Loyal Battle Monkey - all of those type sound good for archetypes...
What I would like to do is get rid of spell casting all together, as it was said several times the characters referenced were not spell casters. I also liked the original idea of using evolutions from the summoner class that the calibur bestows upon the wielder. That being said, the weapon points for the calibur will have to be retooled or the evolutions would be added to the weapon points, and would be renamed calibur points. Getting rid of the spell casting would also get rid of spell combat and spell strike, but the metamagic arcana would have to be removed...I think. Adding the gauntlet to the calibur is no problem, but it will be tricky to add armor. I think deflect attacks should also progress like the monk's deflection bonus. This might change the class a lot, but what do you guys think?
The Electus is a very cool concept! I like the idea of removing the spells and focusing more on the calibur. Perhaps the Electus can use points to purchase (for their calibur) the ability to cast a specific spell a number of times per day (equal to their Cha modifier?). An Electus could buy this quality more than once if they want their calibur to be able to cast more spells. Higher level spells would cost more points. maybe the Electus can choose from arcane and divine spells. You could cap the spells that could be purchased to 4th or maybe 6th level and put a level requirement on the each level before the Electus can buy it (to ensure that he has a caster level equivalent to magus who could cast the same level of spell). This would give the Electus some access to spells, keep it limited enough that the class doesn't come off as too much of a magus clone, and allow for even greater customization of their calibur.
The Electus is a very cool concept! I like the idea of removing the spells and focusing more on the calibur. Perhaps the Electus can use points to purchase (for their calibur) the ability to cast a specific spell a number of times per day (equal to their Cha modifier?). An Electus could buy this quality more than once if they want their calibur to be able to cast more spells. Higher level spells would cost more points. maybe the Electus can choose from arcane and divine spells. You could cap the spells that could be purchased to 4th or maybe 6th level and put a level requirement on the each level before the Electus can buy it (to ensure that he has a caster level equivalent to magus who could cast the same level of spell). This would give the Electus some access to spells, keep it limited enough that the class doesn't come off as too much of a magus clone, and allow for even greater customization of their calibur.
This^ right here is what I had in mind. You sir are a mind reader.
hey spyder and wolf since the topic of archetypes came up i jotted down some ideas earlier.
1.imbuer electus, an electus who can "loan" weapon points to allies to strengthen their weapons/ improved unarmed strike.
2.internalist electus, an electus who wields their caliber internally. i was thinking they would get improved unarmed strike and a slightly altered "weapon pool" the swapped some features out for some reasonable evolutions.
3.leader electus, this king Arthur type would get something similar to bardic performance. a diminished electus and down scaled arcane armor maybe as a tradeoff?
just some ideas that popped up over the day
This^ right here is what I had in mind. You sir are a mind reader.The Electus is a very cool concept! I like the idea of removing the spells and focusing more on the calibur. Perhaps the Electus can use points to purchase (for their calibur) the ability to cast a specific spell a number of times per day (equal to their Cha modifier?). An Electus could buy this quality more than once if they want their calibur to be able to cast more spells. Higher level spells would cost more points. maybe the Electus can choose from arcane and divine spells. You could cap the spells that could be purchased to 4th or maybe 6th level and put a level requirement on the each level before the Electus can buy it (to ensure that he has a caster level equivalent to magus who could cast the same level of spell). This would give the Electus some access to spells, keep it limited enough that the class doesn't come off as too much of a magus clone, and allow for even greater customization of their calibur.
Thanks Spyder! If you want I can post a draft write up of this ability.
+5 Toaster: Those are some good ideas.
Player Killer: You're very welcome. Posting a draft would be really awesome. I'd like to see what you have.
Another thought would be dropping the arcane pool and instead building off of the weapon point system you created. Weapon enhancements and properties would be bought using weapon points and would be persistent. Maybe the electus could have the option of reassigning their weapon points every time they gain a level in the electus class. If you went this route, I would suggest expanding the list of enhancements that could be purchased using weapon points to all those listed on table 15-9 in the core rulebook. This would allow for greater customization of the calibur and further differentiate the class from the magus and paladin who can place enchantments on their weapon.
Ok here is a quick draft of an electus ability that would allow them to imbue their calibur with the ability to cast spells. This draft allows for up to 4th level spells. I'm concerned about the being able to cast the spell a number of times a day equal to the electus's Charisma bonus. I can see potential for this to be unbalancing. I think it is partially mitigated by the increasing weapon point cost for spells of higher level.
Eldritch Calibur (Su): The electus’s calibur possesses the ability to cast spells. Beginning at first level, the electus can choose to spend weapon points to imbue the calibur with the ability to cast a specific arcane or divine spell a number of times a day equal to the electus’s Charisma bonus. The electus may choose spells from the sorcerer or cleric spell lists. The electus’s class level is used as the caster level for determining spell effects. To imbue the calibur with a spell, the electus must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a calibur’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the electus’s Charisma modifier. A calibur can be imbued with a number of spells equal to the electus's Charisma bonus. The calibur is able to cast spells with a target of “self” on the electus. The calibur is able to cast spells that grant weapon enhancements on itself or a weapon the electus touches with the calibur.A calibur can deliver touch spells that it is imbued with on a successful melee strike.
• Imbuing the calibur with the ability to cast a 0 level spell or orison costs 1 point.
• Imbuing the calibur with a 1st level spell costs 2 points.
• Imbuing the calibur with a 2nd level spell costs 3 points. An electus must be at least 5th level before imbuing the calibur with this level of spell.
• Imbuing the calibur with a 3rd level spell costs 4 points. An electus must be at least 7th level before imbuing the calibur with this level of spell.
• Imbuing the calibur with a 4th level spell costs 5 points. An electus must be at least 10th level before imbuing the calibur with this level of spell.
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Thanks Spyder! If you want I can post a draft write up of this ability.This^ right here is what I had in mind. You sir are a mind reader.The Electus is a very cool concept! I like the idea of removing the spells and focusing more on the calibur. Perhaps the Electus can use points to purchase (for their calibur) the ability to cast a specific spell a number of times per day (equal to their Cha modifier?). An Electus could buy this quality more than once if they want their calibur to be able to cast more spells. Higher level spells would cost more points. maybe the Electus can choose from arcane and divine spells. You could cap the spells that could be purchased to 4th or maybe 6th level and put a level requirement on the each level before the Electus can buy it (to ensure that he has a caster level equivalent to magus who could cast the same level of spell). This would give the Electus some access to spells, keep it limited enough that the class doesn't come off as too much of a magus clone, and allow for even greater customization of their calibur.
I can see something like giving up to level 4 spells, albeit from a customized list we can create for the class. If the electus is spending points on spells then the number of points he can use could be raised to class level + cha modifier.
I think we could keep the warrior BAB but I do question the skills and skill ranks/class skills of the class if we do not emphasize the arcane origin. Maybe something like a Provenance ability that gives a small selection of different class skills based on the calibur?
As for skill ranks stories that involve character getting caliburs are often somewhat skilled themselves. There are always stories about a character 'losing' their calibur for an episode but being able to overcome some obstacle. I'm thinking 4 + int modifier would work. Any comments?
Edit: Back to the weapon: is it possible to revise the weapon creation to make it more streamlined but also give more options? I think we can start weapon damage at 1d8 and the 19-20 threat range. We can also give the option of Special Weapon Features and include all the basice options like blocking, monk, sunder, and brace but also options like composite for ranged weapons (they start at +1 and get better at higher levels) and light for one handed melee weapons.
I agree with Loyal Battle Monkey that increased skill points can help compensate for taking away the spell casting ability. I also agree that increasing weapon points may be necessary if spell casting is removed.
On weapon creation, what about dropping the ability to use the arcane pool to enhance the calibur? Instead build on your weapon points system. You could give the electus access to all the weapon special abilities listed in the core rule in tables 15-9 and 15-10, assigning a weapon point cost to each. The purchased enhancement would be persistent. Perhaps the electus could have the option of changing their weapon point allocations every time they gain a new level in the electus class.
I think it would be really cool to see electus arcana unique to the electus instead of using the magus arcana list. Here are a few ideas:
Awaken Calibur (Su): The electus can create a temporary spark of sentience in his calibur allowing it to act with some degree of autonomy. This could be pretty cool if the electus's calibur has the dancing ability or fly spell. (This would probably need to be a higher level arcana).
Meld Calibur (Su):The electus can fuse his calibur directly into his arm. He loses the use of that hand for the duration but cannot be disarmed.
Bestow Calibur (Su): The electus can temporarily allow can ally to use his calibur.
Skin of the Calibur (Su): The electus's skin transforms into the same material as his calibur is made of, granting him damage reduction.
Cursed Calibur (Su): The calibur bestows a curse (like the spell) on anyone who tries to wield it other than the electus.
Lighten Calibur (Su): The electus can make his calibur handle as if it were one size smaller (useful to make a two handed weapon handle like a one handed weapon). You could also have a similar arcana for ranged caliburs that increases it range increment.
Summon Calibur (Su):The electus can teleport his calibur to him from some preset distance.
Reforge Calibur (Su): The electus can reshape his calibur into a different type of weapon.
Cannabalize Calibur (Su): The electus can heal himself by transferring hit points from his calibur to himself. The calibur would regain hit points at the same rate as the electus normally does.
Fantastic electus arcana, Player Killer. Could even change "arcana" to "techniques" or "capabilities" or something equally different to distance from the magus further...
Fantastic electus arcana, Player Killer. Could even change "arcana" to "techniques" or "capabilities" or something equally different to distance from the magus further...
Thanks Oceanshieldwolf! I agree that changing "arcana" to a different term would further differentiate the electus. You could also make the abilities focus on the calibur instead of the electus. Maybe something that implies weapon construction? Calibur imbuements (if this is even a word)? Calibur Forgings? Calibur Enhancements?
Edit: Back to the weapon: is it possible to revise the weapon creation to make it more streamlined but also give more options? I think we can start weapon damage at 1d8 and the 19-20 threat range. We can also give the option of Special Weapon Features and include all the basice options like blocking, monk, sunder, and brace but also options like composite for ranged weapons (they start at +1 and get better at higher levels) and light for one handed melee weapons.
I like Loyal Battle Monkey's idea of giving the electus special weapon features. Gaining these features could replace a magus class feature such as Arcane Armor Improvment. If an electus's spells come from the calibur then they don't have to worry about arcane spell failure from wearing armor. The electus could add a special weapon feature at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th. You could include composite for bows and the electus could choose it more than once, adding a +1 each time it is chosen. You could also allow the electus to choose to have a giant-sized weapon if they take the lighten calibur aracana. This would allow players to have an electus who fills the trope of those anime characters you see with a 12 foot sword with a blade that is like a foot wide.
Should the gaining of weapon points be listed under the "special" column on "Table: Electus"? You might want to increase the number of weapon points that the electus gains at each of these levels (maybe 1 + Cha bonus)?
Now if you can come up with cool replacements for Spell combat, spell strike and improved spell combat, you have completely separated your class from the magus.
Here are a couple more arcana ideas:
Pandimensional Calibur (Su): The electus's calibur exists on more than one plane of existence at a time. This allows the calibur to strike incorporeal and ethreal opponents.
Calibur of Force (Su): The electus's caliber is surrounded by a thin field of magical energy that allows it to cut through, shatter or pierce force effects such as a wall of force.
Summon Ammunition (Su): The calibur is able to summon an unlimited supply of ammunition if it is a ranged weapon. The ammunition can only be used by the calibur.
Let me know if you want me to write up more detailed descriptions of any of these arcana (or whatever you decide to call them).
I messed up the progression on the Eldritch Calibur ability. Here is what I meant to write:
• Imbuing the calibur with the ability to cast a 0 level spell or orison costs 1 point. An electus must be at least 4th level before imbuing the calibur with this level of spell.
• Imbuing the calibur with a 1st level spell costs 2 points. An electus must be at least 4th level before imbuing the calibur with this level of spell.
• Imbuing the calibur with a 2nd level spell costs 3 points. An electus must be at least 7th level before imbuing the calibur with this level of spell.
• Imbuing the calibur with a 3rd level spell costs 4 points. An electus must be at least 10th level before imbuing the calibur with this level of spell.
• Imbuing the calibur with a 4th level spell costs 5 points. An electus must be at least 13th level before imbuing the calibur with this level of spell.
Player Killer, as the initial creator of the Electus I must say that I am enjoying your suggestions. Well done and keep them up.
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Player Killer, as the initial creator of the Electus I must say that I am enjoying your suggestions. Well done and keep them up.
Thanks Arcanemuses! I've arrived late to the electus party and don't want to just butt in so that means alot :) It is a very cool class that fills a niche that I haven't seen filled by any other class.
Player Killer, as the initial creator of the Electus I must say that I am enjoying your suggestions. Well done and keep them up.
I agree, I like what him and Loyal Battle Monkey are suggesting. I feel very comfortable handing the reins over to them. That is if it's ok with you.
I also want to say sorry for not posting here more often. I've been working on my creations and updating my races with the ARG.
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This looks like a really interesting class, and I'm looking forward to looking at it in more detail. I'm especially pleased to see that it is officially Open Game Content, at least, I'm assuming it is since it has the Open Game License attached. Technically, you should have some statement saying what is and what isn't open content. Also, technically, you are supposed to add the product's own information to the copyright section at the end. (See section 6 of the OGL.)
Disclaimer: IANAL, these are my own interpretations of the OGL, based on it and what I've read about it online.
Player Killer, as the initial creator of the Electus I must say that I am enjoying your suggestions. Well done and keep them up.I agree, I like what him and Loyal Battle Monkey are suggesting. I feel very comfortable handing the reins over to them. That is if it's ok with you.
I also want to say sorry for not posting here more often. I've been working on my creations and updating my races with the ARG.
As a great bard once sang "Let it be, let it be!"
As a great bard once sang "Let it be, let it be!"Player Killer, as the initial creator of the Electus I must say that I am enjoying your suggestions. Well done and keep them up.I agree, I like what him and Loyal Battle Monkey are suggesting. I feel very comfortable handing the reins over to them. That is if it's ok with you.
I also want to say sorry for not posting here more often. I've been working on my creations and updating my races with the ARG.
Very cool Spyder and Arcanemuses! I'll have a revised write incorporating the ideas we have been posting later today :)
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For the basic/starter weapon I was thinking as a general outline:
1. 1d8 damage (1d6 for small characters)
2. 19~20/x2 crit range
3. melee or ranged choice (50ft increment)
4. melee choice is one handed and ranged choice is two handed
5. piercing, slashing, or blunt damage
6. ranged weapon uses arrows or bolts
7. two initial special weapon features
Starting Special Weapon Features
Basic features (found in Core, AA, etc)
Brace, Reach (melee only, only those who have chosen Two-Handed, see below), Trip, Disarm, Sunder, Deadly, Distracting, Grapple, Nonlethal, Performance, Monk
Nonbasic features - melee (created for caliburs)
Light (cannot have both Light and Two-Handed) - weapon counts as a light weapon for feats, etc
Two-Handed (cannot have both light and two-handed) - weapon counts as a two-handed weapon for feats, etc. and damage is increased one step
Thrown - gains range increments of 10ft; can be choosen again for +20 ft
Nonbasic features - ranged
Increased range increment - increases by +20; can be chosen again for additional +30ft
**the idea is to simplify the initial section of what a calibur is but broaden what it can do with special features**
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On to class skills (draft list)
Acrobatics (Dex)
Climb (Str)
Craft (Int)
Diplomacy (Cha)
Intimidate (Cha)
Perception (Wis)
Profession (Wis)
Swim (Str)
Use Magic Device (Cha)
*I have not added any knowledge skill just yet and I replaced spellcraft with use magic device. The reason is that electi seem to gravitate towards magical items and in some ways these items gravitate towards these individuals.