The Revised Electus Base Class (inspired by King Arthur, Witchblade, Thor, He-Man, etc.)


Homebrew and House Rules

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The reason that most of these characters have these awesome weapons is because of some inner "something" that makes them worthy of it. It may be worth looking at a loose code or restriction similar to a paladin.

It may also be worth marrying the powers of the weapon with the characters charisma. In essence, the person in question is bringing something to the table that the mystical weapon needs.

Grand Lodge

Just make that inner thing along the lines of the sorcerer 'bloodlines'. You can take the idea of a kingly person along many different lanes: lost heir, noble, or even a conan type of line that favors becoming a king by their own hands. Each line changes what the Moment of Greatness can do and provide some kind of ability at specific levels.

It might just be easier to place the calibur on its own table like a familiar. Again, placing the calibur into a broad category would be that ideal way of restricting how it can get buffed. Perhaps each category radically changes the buff: one gives it a flaming property that gets progressively bigger (level 1 gives a 1d3 or +2 damage buff, level 5 gives flaming, level X gives flaming burst, and so on) and another gives a certain feat while held for X rounds.


as long that lets my caliber get longer, maybe after i say a certain key catch phrase. my lion themed catfolk electus would love that.


Loyal Battle Monkey wrote:

Just make that inner thing along the lines of the sorcerer 'bloodlines'. You can take the idea of a kingly person along many different lanes: lost heir, noble, or even a conan type of line that favors becoming a king by their own hands. Each line changes what the Moment of Greatness can do and provide some kind of ability at specific levels.

It might just be easier to place the calibur on its own table like a familiar. Again, placing the calibur into a broad category would be that ideal way of restricting how it can get buffed. Perhaps each category radically changes the buff: one gives it a flaming property that gets progressively bigger (level 1 gives a 1d3 or +2 damage buff, level 5 gives flaming, level X gives flaming burst, and so on) and another gives a certain feat while held for X rounds.

Good ideas LBM! Thanks.


+5 Toaster wrote:
as long that lets my caliber get longer, maybe after i say a certain key catch phrase. my lion themed catfolk electus would love that.

I will try to make sure that is worked in :)


Here's a crazy idea for a temper. For a limited amount of time the electus can convert all the damage dealt by his calibur as a single type of energy OR weapon damage. This means that an electus with a 16 StR and a two-handed calibur that does 1d8 slashing and has the enhancement properties Fire (1d6) and Bane (2d6) can deal 1d8+3d6+4 Fire damage, Bane damage, OR slashing damage. The target must be vulnerable to all damage types in order to take all the damage.

Like I said; Crazy.

This might just be the whiskey typing...

Grand Lodge

I'll have another version/update sometime tonight or tomorrow that has alot that was talked about.


Loyal Battle Monkey wrote:
I'll have another version/update sometime tonight or tomorrow that has alot that was talked about.

I'm also working on version 4 of my variant. It is a radical departure from the previous versions and draws on mechanics similar to those used by the cavalier and inquisitor.


Here is an incomplete draft of version 4 to give people an idea of the direction I'm going with this variant. I tried to take into account the excellent feedback that I got from people. It borrows and adapts from the inquisitor and cavalier. The drastic changes were made to address concerns that the electus of my previous drafts was secondary to the calibur. This version also attempts to give the electus more versatility without loosing the core concept of a hero (or villian depending on what floats your boat :) ) chosen to wield a magic weapon.

This variant doesn't make use of the tempers or a forge pool. Instead an electus can choose a "Reign" which has similarities to a cleric domain and cavalier order. Each Reign grants three reign powers and a calibur focus ability. This is a power related to the theme of the reign that requires the electus to be wielding his calibur to use.

The calibur has been simplified. It now is modeled after whatever weapon the electus chooses at the moment of choosing. It starts out as a masterwork weapon and then gradually gains enhancement bonuses up to +5. The electus can choose to add special weapon properties at later levels as permanent enhancements to his calibur. I think this helps differentiate the electus from the magus and paladin who can change their weapons properties more "on the fly". This also opens up the special properties that can be added.

This variant also gets an ability called "decrees" that are modeled after an inquisitors judgements. I have one decree written to give you an idea of what I'm going for. Since a king has subjects and is a leader whose decrees effect others, his decree abilities will either buff allies for a brief time or debuff foes for a brief time (rather than give the electus a bonus). The decrees last a potentially shorter duration compared to judgements which can last as long as combat does. Please take a look at the sample decree and let me know if it works or is broken.

This version gives the electus a teamwork feat mechanic taken from the cavalier. I thought this fit well with the concept (a potential king leading others).

In terms of balance, the class still has full BAB but no spell casting. He has higher hps than an inquisitor and less skill points.

I'll have 2-3 of the reigns written over the next 3 days and will post an update once that's done. I wanted to post this incomplete draft for input before I got to deep into the writing process. Overall I'm happier with where this draft is going than with my earlier drafts.

Electus partial draft v4.


Player Killer wrote:

Here is an incomplete draft of version 4 to give people an idea of the direction I'm going with this variant. It borrows and adapts from the inquisitor and cavalier. The drastic changes were made to address concerns that the electus of my previous drafts was secondary to the calibur. This version also attempts to give the electus more versatility without loosing the core concept of a hero chosen to wield a magic weapon.

This variant doesn't make use of the tempers or a forge pool. Instead an electus can choose a "Reign" which has similarities to a cleric domain and cavalier order. Each Reign grants three reign powers and a calibur focus ability. This is a power related to the theme of the reign that requires the electus to be wielding his calibur to use.

The calibur has been simplified. It now is modeled after whatever weapon the electus chooses at the moment of choosing. It starts out as a masterwork weapon and then gradually gains enhancement bonuses up to +5. The electus can choose to add special weapon properties at later levels as permanent enhancements to his calibur. I think this helps differentiate the electus from the magus and paladin who can change their weapons properties more "on the fly". This also opens up the special properties that can be added.

This variant also gets an ability called "decrees" that are modeled after an inquisitors judgements. I have one decree written to give you an idea of what I'm going for. Since a king has subjects and is a leader whose decrees effect others, his decree abilities will either buff allies for a brief time or debuff foes for a brief time (rather than give the electus a bonus). The decrees last a potentially shorter duration compared to judgements which can last as long as combat does. Please take a look at the sample decree and let me know if it works or is broken.

This version gives the electus a teamwork feat mechanic taken from the cavalier. I thought this fit well with the concept (a potential king leading others).

In terms of balance,...

Flavor-wise, I am very impressed. You have excellent writing and presentation skills. I love the names of the class features (although I do miss "Tempers". That was clever.)

I truly am astonished by all the time and energy you are putting into this. Keep it up!

Grand Lodge

Here's the skeleton of rework Electus. It's a bit different from the other but some similarities. It's takes inspiration from a number of classes. The idea with the calibur is to get broad choices again but with a very big different with the special abilities: rather than allow the usage of ones that exist, I've decided to construct either new ones for the example Temperment or allow the usage of a very small select few. The idea is like an Orcale's Mystery.

Edit: The other calibur idea is to just grant abilities at specific levels (1, 6, 10, 14, 18). These would essentially be the special features of the calibur. I personally find this one better for usage.

Electus Basics:

Hit Die: d10
Alignment: Any

BAB: as Warrior (Fighter/Barbarian/Ranger)
Good Save(s): Fort
Bad Save(s): Reflex, Will

Class Skills
An electus's class skills are Climb (Str), Bluff (Cha), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (history, nobility)(Int), Linguisitics (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Swim (Str), and Use Magic Device (Cha).

Skill Ranks per level: 4 + Intelligence modifier

I changed some of the class skills. I wanted to focus on somekind of 'noble' type of character

Electus Table:

Level Special
1 Calibur, Provenance, Moment of Greatness 1/day
2 Provenance
3 Moment of Greatness 2/day
4 -
5 Moment of Greatness 3/day
6 -
7 Moment of Greatness 4/day
8 Provenance Ability
9 Moment of Greatness 5/day
10 -
11 Moment of Greatness 6/day
12 -
13 Moment of Greatness 7/day
14 -
15 Moment of Greatness 8/day
16 Provenance Ability
17 Moment of Greatness 9/day
18 -
19 Moment of Greatness 10/day
20 Level 20 Ability

Electus Class Features:

Calibur
At 1st level, the electus forms a bond with a calibur, an artifact in the form of a weapon of his choosing. As the electus gains experience and grows more powerful, so does his calibur. A calibur cannot be enchanted nor can it be enhanced by effects other than ones it possesses. A calibur's caster level is considered to be equal to its level.

A calibur is assumed to be made out of basic materials. For example, a calibur that is a longsword is made out of iron or steel while a calibur that is a quarterstaff is make out of wood. Because the calibur is an artifact, it cannot be destroyed by normal means, only broken. Should a calibur be broken, it can be repaired with Make Whole.

Because of the bond between an electus and his calibur, he may not choose to sell the weapon.

I changed the calibur to an artifact weapon as I felt that would be b+#$+ing. It also puts some emphasis on its importance.

Provenance
At 1st level, choose an origin or beginning. This choice affects the Moment of Greatness and grants abilities as you gain levels.

Similar to the cavalier order, it allows us to create a number of different categories that allow structured abilities.

Moment of Greatness
For a number of rounds equal to your class level, you can add 1/2 your class level to your damage rolls.

I still haven't found anything I like for Moment of Greatness just yet. I added it as a growing ability every odd level because of a growing emphasis towards the electus.

Calibur Table:

Level Enhancement Bonus Special
1 +0 Temperment, Partnership
2 +0 -
3 +1 -
4 +1 -
5 +2 -
6 +2 Temperment
7 +2 -
8 +2 -
9 +3 -
10 +3 Temperment
11 +3 -
12 +3 -
13 +4 -
14 +4 Temperment
15 +4 -
16 +4 -
17 +5 -
18 +5 Temperment
19 +5 -
20 +5 -

Calibur Features:

Enhancement Bonus
A calibur begins as a masterwork weapon. A level 3, and every four levels after 1st, the calibur gains a +1 enhancement bonus.

This way just seemed easier and better than somekind of arcane pool. And we wouldn't have to worry about Enhancement bonus and focus on the special abilities.

Temperment
Although every calibur is unique, each belongs to a category that generally defines its abilities. At 1st level, choose a Temperment. Your choice determines what abilities the calibur possesses.

At 6th level, choose an ability from your chosen calibur's temperment. At 10th, 14th, and 18th level, it gains an additional ability.

level 6, 10, 14, and 18 seemed the best places to give the calibur some ability as it's between the enhancement bonuses.

Partnership
Choose Acrobatic, Athletic, Alterness, or Deceitful. As long as the electus wields the calibur, he gains the chosen feat.

The idea is to harken back to the familiar. I suppose you could add Quick Draw.

sample Provenance:

Noble
Moment of Greatness: While you have a use of Moment of Greatness remaining, whenever another character uses an aid another action to assist you, you gain a +1 insight bonus to that action.

Provenance Abilities: An electus belonging to a Deposed Heir provenance gains the following abilities as he increases in level.
Martial Hertiage: You gain proficiency with all martial weapons and with shields (except Tower shields).

Station in Life: You gain 1/2 your class level to Knowledge (local) and Knowledge (nobility) checks when dealing with other nobles or government officals. and any commoners in your home region. You can treat a commoner's starting attitude as one shift towards helpful.

Inspire 'Commoners'(Ex): You can use one daily usage of Moment of Greatness as an immediate action to inspire your comrades to deads that you could do. At 8th level, this counts as using Gallant Inspiration.

Push Onwards to Glory(Ex): Whenever you charge an enemy, you may push others to join you. At 16th level, by spending 1 daily usage of Moment of Greatness per ally, you can have an ally spend an immediate action to also charge that enemy.

Basic idea is some kind of Moment of Greatness buff or usage, a simple level 1 and 2 ability, and greater abilities at 8 and 16.

sample Temperment:

Warrior's Spirit
Level 1 ability: Somekind of ability that gives a small bonus or sets the stage for other abilities.

Other abilities
a.Maneuver Knowledge: Improved 'Manuever' feat while wielding. Greater 'Manuever' feat while wielder if chosen again.
b. Fighter Training: 1/2 level as fighter for feats with calibur.
c. Battlefield clarity: as oracle ability
d. Surprising Charge: as oracle ability
e. Special Abilities Available (count as +1): Adaptive, Allying, Courageous, Guardian, Menacing, or Seeking
f. Replacement Abilities (require +1 or greater special ability to replace): Advancing, Designation (Lesser or Greater), Impact, Speed or Vorpal


Arcanemuses wrote:

Flavor-wise, I am very impressed. You have excellent writing and presentation skills. I love the names of the class features (although I do miss "Tempers". That was clever.)

I truly am astonished by all the time and energy you are putting into this. Keep it up!

Thanks Arcanemuses! I appreciate that. I miss the tempers as well. I couldn't get them to fit in with the new concept. I'll have a complete draft of version 4 posted this weekend. I think this version is getting closer to a playable version. Stay tuned!

Silver Crusade

You've got a great basis for your new class, that's even pretty impressive and I could see it as a 3pp product once it's done, polished and fully playtested. I'm still waiting for a full alpha/beta before I can judge. The only issue I foresee is that the character seems shoehorned into the concept of a ruler chosen by a weapon, while I can think of other concepts that would not provide a character with a supremacy over others (a serial killer's dagger of murder asking for more blood; a barbarian's greataxe of destruction sundering magic weapons in order to absorb their essence; a crackerjack's pistol aspiring to become once again the best trigger in the world); but this is actually not so much of an issue since the idea of a base class is to fill a specific concept and yours does it well. Remember that some weapons request special abilities or attention (whip, firearm...) in order to be effective.


Maxximilius wrote:
You've got a great basis for your new class, that's even pretty impressive and I could see it as a 3pp product once it's done, polished and fully playtested. I'm still waiting for a full alpha/beta before I can judge.

That really means a lot Maxximilius, thanks!! Your feedback has been very helpful in getting this far. My plan is to have a complete draft of this version up by Sunday for people to review. I should be able to play test it in February. Hopefully others will be able to playtest it as well.

Maxximilius wrote:


The only issue I foresee is that the character seems shoehorned into the concept of a ruler chosen by a weapon, while I can think of other concepts that would not provide a character with a supremacy over others (a serial killer's dagger of murder asking for more blood; a barbarian's greataxe of destruction sundering magic weapons in order to absorb their essence; a crackerjack's pistol aspiring to become once again the best trigger in the world); but this is actually not so much of an issue since the idea of a base class is to fill a specific concept and yours does it well. Remember that some weapons request special abilities or attention (whip, firearm...) in order to be effective.

Good points. Should I create weapon enhancements specifically for weapons like the whip, pistols, etc. What weapons would you put in this category (whips, pistols, etc.)?


I'd playtest it with my group if they weren't curmudgeons. :)


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Quick question. It may of been answered already, but here it goes. What happens if the Caliber is stolen or lost? Would the new possessor of the weapon gain a benefit from the item or would it refuse the person or even destroy the person depending on the Calibers power level?

Grand Lodge

Dorn Of Citadel Adbar wrote:
Quick question. It may of been answered already, but here it goes. What happens if the Caliber is stolen or lost? Would the new possessor of the weapon gain a benefit from the item or would it refuse the person or even destroy the person depending on the Calibers power level?

In one of the builds I had it function as a mundane weapon in the hands of a non-electus. I could see an evil electus weapon being given an ego based on the electus's level and trying to impose its will on the new character. That's more of a DM thing though.


Loyal Battle Monkey wrote:
Dorn Of Citadel Adbar wrote:
Quick question. It may of been answered already, but here it goes. What happens if the Caliber is stolen or lost? Would the new possessor of the weapon gain a benefit from the item or would it refuse the person or even destroy the person depending on the Calibers power level?
In one of the builds I had it function as a mundane weapon in the hands of a non-electus. I could see an evil electus weapon being given an ego based on the electus's level and trying to impose its will on the new character. That's more of a DM thing though.

It my original creation of the class I intended the electus and calibur could have different alignments but had to be at least one step within each other. I also stressed that any "conflict of wills" between the electus and their caliburs would be completley at the player's discretion for roleplaying purposes only. A DM/GM should NEVER control a players electus through their calibur, just as they should not control animal companions or familiars. The caliburs are part of the class package.

Silver Crusade

Again, the fact your concept is focused on a "leader" isn't a bad idea - there is a reason archetypes exist, and it's to provide extended, more specific concepts to fit inside a base thematic skeleton. There are lots of ways to provide diverse options and flavors within a single concept, as proven by the cavalier. And your class seems to provide a lot of possible concepts and whole imagery while providing subtile changes in the gameplay according to the reigns and the chosen weapon.

Some suggestions or overall ideas for your Reigns (these are just based on how I would approach the design myself, don't feel obligated to integrate something from it or justify yourself for not doing it) :

- You need an ability to actually enhance yourself your weapon. Since it is said you can do it, there should be some way to reproduce the effects of the Craft Magic Arms and Armors for the purposes of your Calibur only.
- Think about a possible replacement to the Leadership feat - some GMs ban it and may want a simple alternate option.
- I think you may integrate a reign-based weapon property for free on each Calibur, not counting in the +10 normal limitation nor the enhancement price of the weapon itself. Lots of +1 properties fill perfectly a concept (see after).
- Reign of Mercy could provide the ability to deal some times per day more damage as long as it is non-lethal, with a limitation forbidding any lethal outcome to the victim at the cost of your Calibur bonuses for some time (so you don't get to Vital Strike the crap out of some dude to put him KO, just in time for the group's rogue to stab him and finish the job without having the Calibur expressing its dissapointment). I could see in addition to this the Merciful weapon property permanently added for free on your Calibur, and not counting in the weapon's price or +10 normal limitation. For inspiration, see the Lotus monk (touch of serenity/charm person on an enemy put down makes for a cool "I beat you, now join me my friend") or the redeemer paladin.
- Reign of Terror: see the antipaladin features and spells, the Gory finish feat and the Cruel or Ominous weapon properties.
- Reign of Light: cutting through darkness effects themselves like if the dark was a curtain.
- Reign of Chaos: Transformative weapon property. Avoid random powers, these are often design traps and are extremely difficult to get right.


Maxximilius wrote:

Again, the fact your concept is focused on a "leader" isn't a bad idea - there is a reason archetypes exist, and it's to provide extended, more specific concepts to fit inside a base thematic skeleton. There are lots of ways to provide diverse options and flavors within a single concept, as proven by the cavalier. And your class seems to provide a lot of possible concepts and whole imagery while providing subtile changes in the gameplay according to the reigns and the chosen weapon.

Some suggestions or overall ideas for your Reigns (these are just based on how I would approach the design myself, don't feel obligated to integrate something from it or justify yourself for not doing it) :

- You need an ability to actually enhance yourself your weapon. Since it is said you can do it, there should be some way to reproduce the effects of the Craft Magic Arms and Armors for the purposes of your Calibur only.
- Think about a possible replacement to the Leadership feat - some GMs ban it and may want a simple alternate option.
- I think you may integrate a reign-based weapon property for free on each Calibur, not counting in the +10 normal limitation nor the enhancement price of the weapon itself. Lots of +1 properties fill perfectly a concept (see after).
- Reign of Mercy could provide the ability to deal some times per day more damage as long as it is non-lethal, with a limitation forbidding any lethal outcome to the victim at the cost of your Calibur bonuses for some time (so you don't get to Vital Strike the crap out of some dude to put him KO, just in time for the group's rogue to stab him and finish the job without having the Calibur expressing its dissapointment). I could see in addition to this the Merciful weapon property permanently added for free on your Calibur, and not counting in the weapon's price or +10 normal limitation. For inspiration, see the Lotus monk (touch of serenity/charm person on an enemy put down makes for a cool "I beat you, now join me my friend") or the redeemer paladin....

Awesome ideas Maxximilius! This is very helpful. I'll be integrsting much of this into version 4 (to be posted this weekend). I really like the idea of an ability that essentially gives the the electus the craft magic arms feat but only applicable to his calibur. I'll work that in. I also really like the idea of a reign-based weapon property for each reign. Your examples are great! Thanks!!

In terms of what happens if an electus loses his calibur, it becomes a mundane weapon in anyone else's hands. If it is destroyed the electus can reform it. I need to add in a mechanic that prevents it from being stolen for any significant amount of time. Maybe it teleports back to the electus. More complicated but also better role-playing fodder would be to have the calibur curse anyone who steals it until it gets returned to its owner.

Grand Lodge

I don't know about the leadership feat for the class. We should try and stay away from feats that are not pathfinder society usable. A leadership-based archetype would be great though (the liege).

All of the melee classes have some sort of growing or additional damage buff. The question is: do we want that buff on the character or the weapon? Do we want this class to be bursty (like the arcane pool) or have a prolonged damage buff (like weapon training)?


Hi Everyone - I'm still working on completing v4 of the electus but wanted to get another partial draft up for input. I replaced the leadership feat with a new ability called "edict". The decrees start out pretty weak could could really be effective as the electus gains levels and can start piling multiple decrees on a single target. I have the decrees affecting others and not the electus to differentiate the ability from judgements. How do they seem in terms of balance? I thought it also made sense that a decree from a king or other ruler effects others, not the ruler. I could use some ideas on reign powers and calibur focus abilities. Thanks.

Electus v4 partial draft.

Silver Crusade

Could you copy-paste the text in a document open to commentaries ? There is a lot to say and we could save an exponential amount of time by providing a simple clic-and-type option.


I was reading up on the decrees, and had some concerns.

1) Does the electus "know" all of them, or only some of them?

2) At levels 1-3 the character grants someone a +1 to something, for a round or two, once per day. Does this seem like a problem? I would be tempted to make the bonus last 1 minute, regardless of anything else, or invent some slightly more generous mechanic. Maybe you could simply increase the bonus.

3) Put the information for range in the main entry for decrees, probably in the same paragraph as save DC. Remove the range from the individual entries unless it has a different one.


Maxximilius wrote:
Could you copy-paste the text in a document open to commentaries ? There is a lot to say and we could save an exponential amount of time by providing a simple clic-and-type option.

Hi Maxximilius- do you mean like this (below) or do you want me to post the writeup as a Word document? I can do either or both.

Decree:
Aegis of the Chosen: One ally is surround by an aura of energy. He gains a +1 deflection bonus to armor class. The protection increases by +1 for every five electus levels he possesses.


Ciaran Barnes wrote:

I was reading up on the decrees, and had some concerns.

1) Does the electus "know" all of them, or only some of them?

He has access to all of them.

Ciaran Barnes wrote:


2) At levels 1-3 the character grants someone a +1 to something, for a round or two, once per day. Does this seem like a problem? I would be tempted to make the bonus last 1 minute, regardless of anything else, or invent some slightly more generous mechanic. Maybe you could simply increase the bonus.

That was an issue I am concerned about as well. I tried to err on the side of making the abilities unpowered rather than overpowered in trying to balance the class. I wanted to give the electus the ability to branch out a bit into a buffer/debuffer role while keeping the emphasis on the electus being a melee combat orientated class. I didn't want him to be a better buffer/debuffer than straight casters. I was going for an ability that could provide a quick but brief boost to an ally or debuff to an enemy. Also, as he goes up in levels,he can slap more decrees on subjects while only burning one use of the ability. For example, at level 8 he can activate this power 3 times a day but each use allows 2 decrees (for a total of 6 decrees a day). What do people think? Do the buffs and debuffs need to last longer (perhaps through combat like an inquisitor's judgements)?

Ciaran Barnes wrote:


3) Put the information for range in the main entry for decrees, probably in the same paragraph as save DC. Remove the range from the individual entries unless it has a different one.

Good advice. I made this change and reposted here: Electus v4 PDF and here Electus v4 DOC.


Considering that actual buff spells have durations based on caster level, and that an actual caster can buff many more times per day, I say you are short changing the ability.

Silver Crusade

You should allow users to comment on the Electus V4 doc, inside the "share" option.


Maxximilius wrote:
You should allow users to comment on the Electus V4 doc, inside the "share" option.

Here is a link to the electus v4 that everyone can comment on. Electus v4 partial for comments.

Grand Lodge

Wait. Why is the character a ruler?

Silver Crusade

I don't know if that's because you uploaded a .docx instead of directly creating a new document native in drive, but I still cannot select a part of the text to add a commentary as this specific place. I can only add a commentary on the document itself, so I'm unable to pinpoint the exact sentences/abilities. Did you try simply creating a new text document on google drive, pasting the Electus text in it then opening the document (plus comments) to people with the direct link ?
To see what I'm talking about, check my archetypes document, there should be comments on the right at specific times.


Loyal Battle Monkey wrote:
Wait. Why is the character a ruler?

That was my idea for Player Killer's version heh heh. It stems from the fact that Thor, Arthur, and He-Man were all of royal blood. The Electus is chosen by the Calibur not just for his/her blazing warrior spirit, but for their inherent spiritual potential to someday lead a group of people. See earlier posts to get the full story.

Silver Crusade

And check previous posts to see that it is not so much of an issue. After all, all inquisitors are almost fanatical defenders of their faith; an electus may very well be chosen to become the number one/ruler/champion of anything as part of its base skeleton. Granted, the flavor could be more generalist (see my previous examples), but right now the most important is to get the crunch right.


Ok, third times the charm for a version that can be commented on :) Here it is (thanks for the help Maxximilius!)

Electus v4 partial draft for comments. Please fill it up with comments-the good, the bad and the ugly and I'll take another whack at it this weekend. Thanks everyone!!


Loyal Battle Monkey wrote:

For the basic/starter weapon I was thinking as a general outline:

1. 1d8 damage (1d6 for small characters)
2. 19~20/x2 crit range
3. melee or ranged choice (50ft increment)
4. melee choice is one handed and ranged choice is two handed
5. piercing, slashing, or blunt damage
6. ranged weapon uses arrows or bolts
7. two initial special weapon features

Starting Special Weapon Features
Basic features (found in Core, AA, etc)
Brace, Reach (melee only, only those who have chosen Two-Handed, see below), Trip, Disarm, Sunder, Deadly, Distracting, Grapple, Nonlethal, Performance, Monk

Nonbasic features - melee (created for caliburs)
Light (cannot have both Light and Two-Handed) - weapon counts as a light weapon for feats, etc

Two-Handed (cannot have both light and two-handed) - weapon counts as a two-handed weapon for feats, etc. and damage is increased one step

Thrown - gains range increments of 10ft; can be choosen again for +20 ft

Nonbasic features - ranged
Increased range increment - increases by +20; can be chosen again for additional +30ft

**the idea is to simplify the initial section of what a calibur is but broaden what it can do with special features**

Actually the calibur just takes on the attributes (damage, range, reach, etc.) of whatever weapon it is modeled after. For all intents and purposes, it is a magic version of that weapon. I'm not sure how what you are suggesting makes the calibur simpler.

Silver Crusade

Commented on the document.

Grand Lodge

Player Killer wrote:
Loyal Battle Monkey wrote:

For the basic/starter weapon I was thinking as a general outline:

1. 1d8 damage (1d6 for small characters)
2. 19~20/x2 crit range
3. melee or ranged choice (50ft increment)
4. melee choice is one handed and ranged choice is two handed
5. piercing, slashing, or blunt damage
6. ranged weapon uses arrows or bolts
7. two initial special weapon features

Starting Special Weapon Features
Basic features (found in Core, AA, etc)
Brace, Reach (melee only, only those who have chosen Two-Handed, see below), Trip, Disarm, Sunder, Deadly, Distracting, Grapple, Nonlethal, Performance, Monk

Nonbasic features - melee (created for caliburs)
Light (cannot have both Light and Two-Handed) - weapon counts as a light weapon for feats, etc

Two-Handed (cannot have both light and two-handed) - weapon counts as a two-handed weapon for feats, etc. and damage is increased one step

Thrown - gains range increments of 10ft; can be choosen again for +20 ft

Nonbasic features - ranged
Increased range increment - increases by +20; can be chosen again for additional +30ft

**the idea is to simplify the initial section of what a calibur is but broaden what it can do with special features**

Actually the calibur just takes on the attributes (damage, range, reach, etc.) of whatever weapon it is modeled after. For all intents and purposes, it is a magic version of that weapon. I'm not sure how what you are suggesting makes the calibur simpler.

That version was a blank weapon: it had none of the features of a weapon. The idea was to give some flexibility to allow a greater mix of choices for very unique weapons. In some ways, the idea was to also allow the use of throwing weapons to be created. Later edition based everything on a singular form (a longsword is a longsword and has all the features of that weapon).


Maxximilius wrote:
Commented on the document.

Thanks Maxximilius-Great suggestions!

Grand Lodge

A ruler seems a bit too narrow for a class. I can see it as a type of prestige class that gives bonuses based on the type of ruler and if a lackey follows the rule.


I think a Ruler seems a good fit in the party. A destined king questing alongside his fellowship of adventurers....

Of course, other electi could exist...

Silver Crusade

Maybe the concept needs to expand a bit about what "a ruler" could mean, and just be used for the general thematic of an examplar.
I could see an actual king/emperor ruler (blood ? => Aragorn), a physical champion (might/worth ? => Conan), a Chosen One (purity of heart/specific plot-related requirements ? => Arthur, Ivy Valentine), or even a fitting spiritual heir (natural talent, combining several other attributes ? => Thor, Link).

Grand Lodge

I'd agree somewhat with that. We need to broaden out the definition of "ruler". We should also seek to broaden out the calibur.

For example:

"Goblinkiller"
Forms: Dagger, Shortsword, Longsword, Greatsword
Level 1: Provides Light on command.
Level 6: Wielder gains Dazzling Display as long as he wields the calibur and bonus versus Goblinoids
Level 10: Gets Bane against Goblinoids
Level 14: DR 5/evil
Level 18: Vorpal

Cumulative as the weapon and wielder get stronger. In one sense, the calibur becomes more powerful than a basic magic weapon and restrictive enough. The idea is, again, a number of different types of caliburs that allow as much balance as we could put in without just making the standard laundry list. These weapons are special: there's no need to make them as mundane as any magic weapon some crafter put together.

Silver Crusade

I don't agree with your example. Goblinkiller would make a fine magic weapon on its own, but a poor calibur, as it is too specific and shoehorning for the purposes of a class ability.
A weapon's base powers should be related to its background or reign; but for the purposes of sheer drama, coolness and concept, the powers it receives should be based on what the electus accomplishes or wishes to do, thus through progression and partly from a general goal of his reign (already reflected by the ability to change the abilities on your weapon at key levels; I would personally add a restrictive mention that these abilities must be related to a deed performed with the weapon = keen could be received by landing a lethal critical hit on a boss, flaming could be infused from killing a fire elemental, sorcerer or dragon, merciful could be added by knocking a meaningful creature down with nonlethal damage with this calibur, etc. in order to grant a greater importance to roleplay and make the progression more organic in a cool fashion... but again, this is how I would do it).
An example of Goblinkiller would be a "hunting" or "hatred" reign granting a definitive Bane and single powers against a single type of creature, requiring an electus to change his reign in some fashion to later change his orientation if needed.

Grand Lodge

The problem with the RP aspect of opening options just wouldn't work in something like Pathfinder Society. From all of the 'super hero' examples, none of the weapon were molded as the wielder willed.

I'm not thinking as the class as a ruler who starts as a ruler: I'm still thinking of the class as just a 'leader'. Yes, one type would be some sort of noble. Another could be a bastard type. Another could just be the type of mercenary who just has that incredible sword. As above, just having a straight up ruler tends to be a bit too restrictive for a 20 level class.

In addition, my view of the calibur is a bit different. I'm trying to keep them based on some of the source items (thor's hammer, etc.). The idea of on the fly enchanting it or from a huge number of basic enchantments is far too much like the magus.

As for the example, it's just an example. Would one of the available choices be something that gives bane and vorpal? Most likely not but the idea of different types of enchantments besides the basic ones is something to persue. That was what I trying to get across. Remember, this is a special weapon. It's not just a basic magic weapon that the player doesn't have to buy.


Loyal Battle Monkey wrote:


In addition, my view of the calibur is a bit different. I'm trying to keep them based on some of the source items (thor's hammer, etc.). The idea of on the fly enchanting it or from a huge number of basic enchantments is far too much like the magus.

This version of the electus doesn't enchant his calibur on the fly. He has a gradually increasing enhancement bonus that can be used to basically "buy" permanent enhancements. I think this version of the electus us considerably different from the magus.

This combined with the calibur focus ability granted by the reign chosen allows an electus to develop a calibur that fits their vision and play style. It also keeps the calibur relatively simple in terms of game mechanics.

Grand Lodge

Right now, it's just a basic magic weapon for free. Rather than giving the ability to instant choose an enchantment, the player is forced to pick one at a designated time. In that case, why even place a free basic magic weapon? Does the class work just as well without it?

If the calibur is a shard of some last king, what does it bring to the table? Just the focus or reign ability? Isn't the reign more of the feature of an electus than of the calibur? If that's true, what is the calibur bringing to the table?

Right now, there's just one small ability (the focus) for the calibur. It needs to be broadened out more. Even in the intro, its all about the calibur and not the electus. Perhaps a revised intro about a potential, talented person and saving the calibur for the last part.

With a ruler, it would help to broaden out many of the abilities to include more types of rulers. Are all rulers commanders in the sense they all should have teamwork feats? Is there any mechanic that can replace that but allow for a commander-type of ability for that type of leader? What if the character isn't that type of leader?

It may be even better to broaden out the scope of a calibur to something like the witch's patron. Patrons can run a whole mix of different themes and origins. Just as you can have a kingly calibur, you can also have a non-kingly one.

Having just a ruler still seems far too narrow. It keeps looking like the Noble Scion prestige class again and again. It might be better to look at a wider definition like the Aristocrat NPC class. An aristocrat may be a ruler but he doesn't have to be. It's much broader but the idea can encompass many different types rather than one.

Edit: Take out Maelstrom from the introduction. Is there a Maelstrom in Golgarion? Is there a Maelstrom in non-Golgarion settings? Revise the "Great Warrior King" aspect of the intro.

Add. Edit: Is there any way to get around just giving out free stat points from edicts? Doesn't an edict imply that the character is following a specific type of action? How can the class be as different from the Inquisitor's judgements as it can be? An edict is an order or decree: so wouldn't affecting an enemy count as a complusion type of effect like an enchantment spell?

Silver Crusade

I agree again that the definition of "ruler" should be broadened to include more possible concepts, including non-rulers at all. But I disagree about some points you raise:

- The calibur is not enhanced on the fly. It provides powers according to its associated reign (thus, the choice of a reign at 1st level links the reign to the calibur); but the only moments you may change its properties without further manual enhancement are only when reaching levels 8, 12, 16 and 20. These choices are permanent until you reach the following step. You are much less versatile in the choice of powers in comparison to a bladebound magus. It has already been said before that the calibur itself must be a symbiotic complement to the character, not overshadow the character himself. If the wielder looks like the pet, look at the dragon rider or the summoner.
- Teamwork feats are not an issue. All cavaliers have this ability, yet there is an order for callous, egoistic cavaliers. At worst, assuming you associate this class feature to specific concepts, this should be a class feature for regal-based reigns only. I could see several packages with one or two reigns in each: regal-based (teamwork feats, buff), talent-based (skills, debuff)), might-based (self combat ability, self buff).
- Golarion has nothing to do with it and shouldn't even be taken into account into the design. This thread isn't about designing a Paizo class, it's about a homebrew. On the opposite spectrum, this point still raises the issue that has already been debated though: the class needs a wider, more open concept so anyone who uses Golarion or his own setting can include it without requiring the character to be a new king.

Grand Lodge

Maxximilius wrote:

I agree again that the definition of "ruler" should be broadened to include more possible concepts, including non-rulers at all. But I disagree about some points you raise:

- The calibur is not enhanced on the fly. It provides powers according to its associated reign (thus, the choice of a reign at 1st level links the reign to the calibur); but the only moments you may change its properties without further manual enhancement are only when reaching levels 8, 12, 16 and 20. These choices are permanent until you reach the following step. You are much less versatile in the choice of powers in comparison to a bladebound magus. It has already been said before that the calibur itself must be a symbiotic complement to the character, not overshadow the character himself. If the wielder looks like the pet, look at the dragon rider or the summoner.
- Teamwork feats are not an issue. All cavaliers have this ability, yet there is an order for callous, egoistic cavaliers. At worst, assuming you associate this class feature to specific concepts, this should be a class feature for regal-based reigns only. I could see several packages with one or two reigns in each: regal-based (teamwork feats, buff), talent-based (skills, debuff)), might-based (self combat ability, self buff).
- Golarion has nothing to do with it and shouldn't even be taken into account into the design. This thread isn't about designing a Paizo class, it's about a homebrew. On the opposite spectrum, this point still raises the issue that has already been debated though: the class needs a wider, more open concept so anyone who uses Golarion or his own setting can include it without requiring the character to be a new king.

As for teamwork feats, have that ability go towards a Dictator (military ruler) or Warmonger ruler. I would stay away from the cavalier ability except for a specific/special ruler. As you continued, the change pending on the ruler is the best way to approach it.

It doesn't change the oddity of the "Maelstrom". It's just a strange origin. Something more ambigous would be far better for this kind of class. I raised the question because, again, what is the Maelstrom? If the calibur is a magic weapon containing some fragment of a soul, how is that different from an intelligent magic item? They both contain some fragment of the creator.

The calibur, atm, is just a basic magic weapon. That needs to change about it. Right now, it's just that basic +X Whatever Enchantment longsword. There's no flavor nor abilities that really sets it apart from any other basic magic weapon.

Right now in the class I would probally remove it entirely because it doesn't really add anything to the class. Again, the calibur is just a free magic weapon with the one reign ability. That's not enough to warrant it. The calibur is supposed to be a big part of the class and it does not feel like it. Rather than be a holy avenger to a paladin, it is stuck as a bland +2 cold iron longsword.

Aren't Edict and Decrees the same thing? Remove the edict ability and just roll it into decrees.

Silver Crusade

Hence why I suggested to make the calibur an intelligent magic weapon with an ego score, related to its original wielder. It provides some litteral personality to a class feature.

Grand Lodge

I could agree to that. I see it as an intelligent item as well. I would do something special for the ego score, however.

On to different types of 'rulers' and what they could do differently than others:

1. Kahn: Mount and mounted feats
2. Liege (think Arthur): the basic military ruler (teamwork feats)
3. Egyptian-style leader: emphasis on connection of ruler as 'god'
4. Warmonger: very aggressive leader, more centralized buffs
5. Paragon: far more team oriented than others, perhaps something like Inspiring Command from the Battle Herald
6. Wise Ruler (think Solomon): Wisdom bonus to some skills and changes to 'face' skills/effects
7. Noble: well rounded and perhaps similiar to the prestige class in someways
Of course there are quite a bit of others out there but these are just to serve as examples of differences

In addition, each of these different types could also have access to a few special decrees.

On Decrees: Would bonuses like morale work better? How about having the class 'issue a decree' and if a player follows it, they get a bonus. Enemy affecting decrees would be like the edict (a charm-like effect similar to spells like hold monster, beguiling gift, etc)

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